Fluffy silver in cell

[Cozza]

Hi all,
I am having a little trouble with my silver cell. As a preface, I set up a mini cell following kadrivers method a month or so back and all went perfect as a proof of concept. The silver produced was a bit dendritic but they were nice and solid. This weekend I made up electrolyte using those crystals ready to run the mini cell again. Using a 1l beaker with a graphite cathode using 150gr of silver crystal in the electrolyte. 3v 1a from the power supply.
Well the first 8hrs produced what could be described as coarse cement!
I have then emptied the cell and switched to a 1.2l stainless bowl cathode, topped up with a little fresh electrolyte and re melted the coarse cement ( most stunning shot I've made to date!) And added it back to the anode basket.
Another 8 hrs running and the result is very fine needle like fluffy crystal.
What can I do to get chunkier solid crystal? I spent 2hrs reading the forum last night and I seem to be doing everything recommended to those with similar problems.
Could the cooler night here at 12c be the cause?

 

[Cozza]

An update since my post.
While looking for a completely un related topic on the forum I found the answer to this problem. My silver shot was not sitting flat in the bottom of the anode basket therefore very little was exposed to the electrolyte. Once I re adjusted the basket growth became much better. Still not the chunky growth I want to produce though, but not cement or needle like. My mission brief here is not refining for profit, I just really love the look of some of the Crystal's I have seen on here and would love to produce my own to display in my mineral collection at work!

 

[Shark]

Well made silver crystals are mesmerizingly beautiful. I had quit trying to do silver until I tried a silver cell.

 

[Cozza]

1000% agreed !!!

 

[FrugalRefiner]

There are many factors that affect crystal structure in a cell. Voltage, amperage, distance from anode to cathode, relative sizes of anode vs cathode, silver ion concentration, pH, etc. The thing that strikes me most is that you used silver crystals from your previous cell run to make your electrolyte, along with the light color of the electrolyte. One of those many factors that affects crystal growth is the concentration of copper ions in the electrolyte. Harold and GSP had numerous discussions about silver cells. GSP added copper to his. Harold preferred to keep it out so his electrolyte would last as long as possible, but he observed that the crystals produced at the beginning of a run were quite different from those in the middle or end of the run as copper was building up.

There have been a number of threads about growing large crystals, but I don't know if anyone has yet figured it all out or shared their solution.

Dave

 

[Cozza]

Dave,
I neglected to mention I did add a little solution from a sterling digestion to add some copper into the electrolyte. It did seem to help some.
My next trial will be a different anode bag material. Currently using an unknown synthetic material we had at home. It's like a faux silk with a very fine weave. I suspect it may be slightly too fine though....
I have looked everywhere for the dacron shop vac filters that many seem to favor but cant find them here. Muslin ( or calico as us Aussies know it) will be what I try next.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Glad to know you added a bit of electrolyte with some copper in it. Your electrolyte is light in color, but has some blue. I was hoping that didn't come from just dissolving crystals from an earlier run.

I use cloth for my bags. :lol:

I don't know whether it's muslin, or calico, or goes by some other name. I just care that it's porous enough to allow silver (and copper and palladium) ions to pass through while containing the slimes. I inherited a lot of fabric after my mother passed away, and I've used a number of different types. They've all worked well.

Dave

 

[Cozza]

Yes, the blue was from my addition. Glad to say the electrolyte from the last runs Crystal's was perfectly clear!
I just wish scrap silver here was easier to come by- I'm now officially hooked on running a cell.
Here is what it's looking like now.

 

[Mike Bonnell]

My first attempt .. oddly shaped crystals _ Look like marijuana buds
I was using the dirtiest silver scrap I could find.
I am finding silver cells are VERY hungry

 

[Yggdrasil]

My first attempt .. oddly shaped crystals _ Look like marijuana buds
I was using the dirtiest silver scrap I could find.
I am finding silver cells are VERY hungry

Welcome.
They have to consume the same amount of Silver as it deposits.
Pureish Silver is the best, but they function quite ok with Sterling
For dense crystals there are many parameter of which Voltage seem to be the most crucial.
The lower the Voltage the denser the crystals.

Here are something to for you study:
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste

Suggested reading: The Library

Forum rules : https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/post-327766

 

[Anil]

There are many factors that affect crystal structure in a cell. Voltage, amperage, distance from anode to cathode, relative sizes of anode vs cathode, silver ion concentration, pH, etc. The thing that strikes me most is that you used silver crystals from your previous cell run to make your electrolyte, along with the light color of the electrolyte. One of those many factors that affects crystal growth is the concentration of copper ions in the electrolyte. Harold and GSP had numerous discussions about silver cells. GSP added copper to his. Harold preferred to keep it out so his electrolyte would last as long as possible, but he observed that the crystals produced at the beginning of a run were quite different from those in the middle or end of the run as copper was building up.

There have been a number of threads about growing large crystals, but I don't know if anyone has yet figured it all out or shared their solution.

Dave

100% in agreement with the above observations. The concentration of Copper beyond 30% will not only affect the purity of refined silver but also influence the size of deposited silver. However, a minor copper content is good for electrical conductivity. (to maintain proper conductivity you may add KNO3 also in the electrolyte).

 

[BGDOCK]

Welcome

Yes, the blue was from my addition. Glad to say the electrolyte from the last runs Crystal's was perfectly clear!
I just wish scrap silver here was easier to come by- I'm now officially hooked on running a cell.
Here is what it's looking like now.

100% in agreement with the above observations. The concentration of Copper beyond 30% will not only affect the purity of refined silver but also influence the size of deposited silver. However, a minor copper content is good for electrical conductivity. (to maintain proper conductivity you may add KNO3 also in the electrolyte).

Titrate the KNO3 slowly until Amperage goes up ?
Can I reuse the electrolyte (per: reissue copper nitrate thread) after adding KNO3!

 

[ModernAlchemy]

There are many factors that affect crystal structure in a cell. Voltage, amperage, distance from anode to cathode, relative sizes of anode vs cathode, silver ion concentration, pH, etc. The thing that strikes me most is that you used silver crystals from your previous cell run to make your electrolyte, along with the light color of the electrolyte. One of those many factors that affects crystal growth is the concentration of copper ions in the electrolyte. Harold and GSP had numerous discussions about silver cells. GSP added copper to his. Harold preferred to keep it out so his electrolyte would last as long as possible, but he observed that the crystals produced at the beginning of a run were quite different from those in the middle or end of the run as copper was building up.

There have been a number of threads about growing large crystals, but I don't know if anyone has yet figured it all out or shared their solution.

Dave

I have a Silver Cell running at the moment based on sreetips setup. I am at 5 days into it and I do have cell growth but not as much as I would think. my current voltage is 3.4 V and 1.45 amps.. Does this seem legit...This is my first silver cell..
Also, should I be stirring the Silver nitrate in the bowl with a glass rod or just let it sit and do its thing? Thank you

 

[BGDOCK]

Can you lower you voltage a little more?
I do sir every 48 hours

 

[ModernAlchemy]

Yes most definitely.... What would be a good lower voltage? 3.0 amps?

 

[BGDOCK]

Try for 1-2 VDC @1A

 

[ModernAlchemy]

Will do, thank you Sir!!

 

[ModernAlchemy]

Try for 1-2 VDC @1A

when I set it to 2.1V it only reads .68amp is that ok?

 

[BGDOCK]

It is riding w/ the load . It has to do with continuity of the solution I believe .
Keep good notes .
Attach a picture
Good luck

 

[ModernAlchemy]

It is riding w/ the load . It has to do with continuity of the solution I believe .
Keep good notes .
Attach a picture
Good luck

I started the cell 10/14/23.. so im not sure about the growth expectation process as of yet. I started it at 3.5 volts about 1.92 amps. I am lowering it now to 1.9V .61 amps. I do notice its feeding a lot on the anode basket.. Any recommendations? I have just been adding .999 silver to the anode basket... Thanks for your guidance.. This is my first run ever and Im learning...