Getting Nitric Acid

[goldsilverpro]

Every member of this forum needs nitric acid. For my assay business, I must have nitric acid. I have the same problem you guys have - where to find it - hopefully cheap. A couple of days ago, I went on a quest to find it.

I'm in SW Missouri. The first place I found, in Kansas City, sold 2.5 liters for $78. However, when I tried to place the order, I was told that, since I didn't have a pharmaceutical license on file, I couldn't buy anything from them.

I started using the internet yellow pages and calling around. After many calls, I found a company in Tulsa that would sell me 2.5 L of ACS nitric for $113 or 1 gallon of tech grade for $38. With further discussion, I found that the 1 gallon tech grade wasn't available. I wasn't disappointed, since their prices were too damned high to start with.

Then, I started calling the big guys - Univar, Harcros, etc. I've found that most chemical salesman are very friendly and try to help you out. Just don't try to BS them - tell them what you want and why you want it. One of the salesman turned me on to the mother lode, a guy in Kansas City that repackages chemicals into smaller containers. I ended up buying 1 gallon (3.785 liters) jugs of 67% tech. grade nitric acid for $16.50/gallon. I drove to KC (100 mile trip, one way) and picked up 5 gallons today.

When I was there, I asked if he would want to hassle with small buyers. He said yes - that was where his business lies. The company is Terrace Packaging, 2819 SW Blvd, Kansas City, MO - 816-561-5377. The owner's name is Sandy. He also sells HCl, H2SO4, NaCN, 35% H2O2, etc., etc. All the good stuff. He will sell just about any quantity, small or large. The smaller the quantity, of course, the higher the per pound, or per gallon price.

I can live with these prices. They're reasonable. I would bet that, in every fair sized city, there is a company, like Sandy's, that repackages chemicals for a fair price.

Chris Owen

 

[gorfman6154]

Then, I started called the big guys - Univar, Harcros, etc. I've found that most chemical salesman are very friendly and try to help you out. Just don't try to BS them - tell them what you want and why you want it. One of the salesman turned me on to the mother lode, a guy in Kansas City that repackages chemicals into smaller containers. I ended up buying 1 gallon (3.785 liters) jugs of 67% tech. grade nitric acid for $16.50/gallon. I drove to KC (100 mile trip) and picked up 5 gallons today.

Goldsilverpro, That's a heck of a good price. I just checked Action Mining's pricelist, They want $52.10 for a 2.5L bottle, not including shipping by truck.

And best of luck, in your new adventure. If you treat your customers, the way you have treated the masses on this exceptional Forum, your new business will be a huge success!!

Gorfman

 

[qst42know]

What was Univar's response. I found one of their distribution hubs here in town.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Univar is everywhere, but they only sell in larger quantities - 15 gal carboys or greater. The nitric price is probably about $10-$12/gallon in 15 gal. quantities, but the problem is always the deposit on the stainless container. Univar wanted a $200 deposit for the SS carboy. Of course, you get it back when you return the container. This was much better than the $400 deposit a company in Tulsa wanted. I didn't need 15 gallons, so I bought only 5 gallons. If you buy a 55 gal. drum from Univar, I would guess the acid price is $4 or $5/gallon. However, the 55 gal. SS drum deposit is probably $700-$900.

I forgot to give the link for Terrace Packaging

http://www.terracepackaging.com/

 

[AlanInMo]

GSP ... Want to sell a couple gallons of that? I'll be there first thing in the morning.. 8) :mrgreen:

 

[Irons]

How Nitric Acid is made on an industrial scale:

http://www.cheresources.com/nitricacid.shtml

 

[golddie]

I would like to buy Nitric acid and Hydrochloric acid
I'm in Canada

In the Hoke book she says to use C.P.
Chemically pure

For aqua regia
I will do what she says
1 fluid ounce nitric
4 fluid ounces hydrochloric acid


I think I have seen 70% being mentioned here.

I am looking at the catalog of
http://www.anachemia.com/engnew/frame/product1.html
In this catalog they nitric acid CD grade

What is CD grade

I want to buy these chemicals and if someone can give me a link and a bit of explanation
Thanks

 

[EDI Refining]

Golddie, if your in southern ontario, send me a PM and I'll let you know, where we purchase our Nitric

 

[goldsilverpro]

Golddie,

Concentrated nitric, no matter what grade you get, is somewhere around 70%, by weight. When the Hoke book was written, even the higher grades were probably cheap. Today, it is different. The lab grades usually come in 2.5 liter bottles and the relative cost is about 10 times higher than technical grade. For all refining applications, the technical grade nitric works equally as well as the various lab grades - in essence, they are the same for this application. To me, the purchase of a lab grade is a huge waste of money. The amount you pay for nitric is one of the greatest determining factors as to whether, or not, you profit from this endevour.

Yesterday, I bought technical grade for $16.50 per gallon (3.785 liters). The lab grade I found, but didn't buy, was $113/2.5 liter. Taking the volumes into consideration, the lab grade was a little more than 10 times more expensive. Shop around.

 

[golddie]

Hi Folks thanks for your help

Hi P3M I tried to send you a private message but I couldn't
If you can give me name that would be nice.

I found this company
http://www.prolabscientific.com/Hydrochloric-Acid-Reagent-Grade-37-~12M-p-21933.html
in Canada
The price for Nitric seems good
Can someone tell me if what they have here is 70% nitric acid
I cant really tell

Nitric Acid, Reagent ACS Solution, (~15.8M)
500ml bottle $ 35.10
2.5L bottle (3.2kg) $ 56.95

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
About the Hydrochloric Acid
The botom one is alot cheaper
Can I use this to make Aqua Regia
Would the 4 to 1 portion of Hydrochloric Acid and Nitric acid change.





Hydrochloric Acid, Reagent Grade, 37% (~12M) 500ml bottle $ 21.50
2.5 L bottle $ 40.80
2.5 L bottle (case of 4) $ 145.00
----------
Hydrochloric Acid, Solutions
Laboratory, Solution, 0.1M (0.1M=0.1N)
0.1N, 1L bottle $ 8.50
0.1N, 3.8L bottle $ 28.20
1.0N, 1L bottle $ 12.20
1.0N, 3.8L bottle $ 36.20
***********************************************************
Hydrochloric Acid, Solutions
Laboratory, Solution, 0.1M (0.1M=0.1N)

This Morality and Normality subject is here again.
I am still unclear about that
Anyway I will eventually get it

 

[Irons]

Beware of immoral acids.

I think you meant Molar not Moral.

A 1 Molar HCl solution would be 1 Normal. A 1 Molar Sulfuric acid solution would be 2 Normal because H2SO4 has 2 protons available for each molecule vs 1 for HCl.

This is an overly simplified explanation but close enough for what we're talking about.

 

[goldsilverpro]

Nitric Acid, Reagent ACS Solution, (~15.8M)

The 15.8M (Molar) is right for about 70% nitric. The price for the ACS grade, although a lot cheaper than the ACS grade I found, is still a helluva lot higher than technical grade. I know you are in a hurry to get started, but don't give up on finding technical grade.

For HCl, you need stuff that's about 10 - 12 Molar to use for aqua regia. The last entries are way too weak - .1 Molar. I don't know how things are in Canada, but here you can easily buy Muriatic acid in hardware stores for a few dollars per gallon. It's a little weaker but it works just fine for all your needs. Muriatic acid is just a lower quaility HCl.

 

[Irons]

Nitric Acid, Reagent ACS Solution, (~15.8M)

The 15.8M (Molar) is right for about 70% nitric. The price for the ACS grade, although a lot cheaper than the ACS grade I found, is still a helluva lot higher than technical grade. I know you are in a hurry to get started, but don't give up on finding technical grade.

For HCl, you need stuff that's about 10 - 12 Molar to use for aqua regia. The last entries are way too weak - .1 Molar. I don't know how things are in Canada, but here you can easily buy Muriatic acid in hardware stores for a few dollars per gallon. It's a little weaker but it works just fine for all your needs. Muriatic acid is just a lower quaility HCl.

You can always crank up Hydrochloric acid by introducing some HCl gas. Salt and Sulfuric acid, heated should do it.

Here's the vapor pressure data for HCl:


http://tinyurl.com/ykzzqfz

 

[lazersteve]

If you don't have sulfuric acid to make HCl you can always use Sodium Bisulfate and Table Salt.

Steve

 

[golddie]

Hi Steve
I didn't know you could make hydrochloric acid with sulfuric acid
How is that done


I didnt know about this also
Maybe someone can give me the propetions
Sodium Bisulfate and Table Salt

Thanks

 

[Irons]

Hi Steve
I didn't know you could make hydrochloric acid with sulfuric acid
How is that done


I didnt know about this also
Maybe someone can give me the propetions
Sodium Bisulfate and Table Salt

Thanks

H2SO4 + 2 NaCl = 2 HCl + Na2SO4.

This should be done in a closed system such as a glass distillation setup and the receiver with the HCl should be chilled to reduce the vapor pressure. 38% HCl is about as concentrated that's stable at 20 Deg. C. unless you keep it in a container that can withstand some pressure.

Another method is to feed the HCl gas to the reaction vessel to replace HCl that is used up in the reaction.

Hydrochloric acid is nothing more than HCl gas dissolved in water.

Another thing you can do is to hook 2 jugs of HCl together with acid resistant tubing. Cool one jug while heating the other and the HCl gas will transfer from the hot side to the cold side.

 

[golddie]

Hi Irons
Thanks for your help
First it was the molarity and normality that got to me and now this equation.

I am not a chemist but at this rate I might become one but i don't know when

H2SO4 + 2 NaCl = 2 HCl + Na2SO4.

Here is my research
Sulfuric Acid + double table salt =double hydrochloric acid + Sodium sulfate
What does that mean

 

[Anonymous]

hi

will methyethylketone peroxide serve the same/better/or do not mix?

regards

cug

 

[butcher]

that sounds very dangerous to me, I am no chemist.
take caution mixing any chemicals, unless you are sure what the reactions produce, with nitrates, metals, etcetera, this can get really dangerous.

hopefully a chemist will answer your question,
in the mean time dont mix anything you don't know about.

methyethylketone peroxide

ARE YOU NUTS? or what, I have not read the link but :?:
that looks like an accident waiting to happen.

 

[LeftyTheBandit]

HCl (Muriatic Acid) can be bought in Canada at either Rona or Canadian Tire. Ask what isle the concrete cleaner is, then look for the only jug that has a plastic bag around it.

Make your own nitric. You will save a bundle.

For Sulfuric acid go to NAPA autoparts and buy the 5 gallon battery acid, then consintrate it as per;
http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=342