Gold plated copper wire with nickel

[steyr223]

Hello Everyone how's the head I hope everyone had a good Christmas
I have a friend that came across about 35 lb of gold-plated wire, we hit it with the xrf which I know isn't the right thing but it was what we had
The readings were 85% copper 6-8% gold and 7% nickel
I Tried reading up on Nickel in AP but apparently it's not the best thing , GSP says hot nitric maybe if room temp doesn't work
Nitric is so expensive and unavailable to me we are going to try it in AP, anybody have any suggestions any ideas I looked around the Forum it's hard to find anything like that there's so much stuff that has plated wire and AP in it.
Maybe somebody can point me in the right direction where I can study up on it maybe a thread I'll keep looking in the meantime

I guess basically I'm just wondering where the nickel comes in if it'll dissolve in AP or if it's left with the Gold foils and if so how to separate of course
One more thing if the 6-8% is even close that means we're looking at a lot of gold and I've never melted a lot of gold should we smelt it instead I don't think I could do that much with an oxy acetylene or can I.

Thanks in advance I do appreciate everything you guys have done for me in the past and have a good New Year's if I don't talk to you till then
Steyr223 rob

 

[nickvc]

Rob, sorry to spoil your new year but I don’t beleieve the xrf results as they stand, I think the reading is for a thin gold layer over a nickel barrier and then copper wire inside, I’d suggest taking a small sample and melt it into a button and re test after flattening and filing the button and perhaps you will get a more reliable result. If what I suspect is correct you will have very little gold or nickel and a lot of copper so running in AP will work well enough but don’t get your expectations too high, I hope I’m wrong but sadly doubt it.

 

[goldsilverpro]

I agree with Nick. Those XRF numbers are meaningless on any and all plated material. This has been discussed many times on the forum and I have a hard time understanding why anyone would waste their time, effort, and, maybe, their money with it. For much better numbers, you need to form a uniform alloy from a small sample of it to use XRF or, much better still, run 2 or 3 fire assay samples on it. With XRF, the nickel and gold plating numbers on the surface of the copper are greatly exaggerated since these layers are completely penetrated by the x-rays, whereas the copper is only slightly penetrated. With XRF, you have only shown that gold is present, which you knew to start with. I do know that XRF can be used to determine the gold plating thickness, but you would need standards made from the particular Cu alloy and probably with the same nickel thickness.

Every aspiring refiner should have fire assay capabilities and fire assay is really the only way I would personally consider for evaluation of that material. For you, a second choice would be to process maybe 1/4 pound in AP or nitric.

Treating this with AP should be no different than anything else you've processed with AP in the past, since all of the pins and fingers have a similar thickness of nickel between the Au and Cu. However, I suspect the gold on this wire will be quite thin and treating this in AP or nitric is likely to be a losing proposition. Dissolving 35# of copper will create a lot of waste. This would probably be a good EBay item, but I would want to know its value before doing that.

I just thought of something that could change things somewhat. QUESTION: Is this wire fabricated with gold plating on it (and probably on spools) or is it wire that was used to suspend other parts in a plating tank? In the above, I assumed the former. If the latter (plating wire), thicker gold is more possible, depending on what type parts they were plating. In most cases, plating wire is only used once, since the nickel in brittle and can flake off when the wire is re-bent. If they used it more than once, there will be alternating layers of Ni and Au. Also, plating wire will not be consistent in its value and will therefore be much more difficult to obtain a good sample.

 

[steyr223]

Thanks Nick and GSP u guys r great
I believe it's from a medical device like an MRI or something close to that
I will melt a little and do like a 1/2# in AP
I will let u know
Thanks steyr223 rob

 

[goldsilverpro]

Thanks Nick and GSP u guys r great
I believe it's from a medical device like an MRI or something close to that
I will melt a little and do like a 1/2# in AP
I will let u know
Thanks steyr223 rob

The gold on wire for a medical device is very possibly a lot thicker than the stuff I've seen.

 

[snoman701]

Assay it and sell it a half pound at a time on eBay for 2-3x gold value. Jewelry people will eat it up.

Gsp is 100% correct on xrf. I have some silver plated wire that shows up as 50-50, in reality it's much less. I just bought it as copper, the silver will be a bonus.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[steyr223]

Okay guys I talk to the guy my buddy Kevin who runs the scrap yard. A Very prominent scrap yard he is the one who has the xrf and he said it's different than he's ever seen he said the gold is mixed with the copper believe it or not, not plated

Has anybody ever heard of this or have experience with it and what is it if you have. I will try to post a picture but yesterday I couldn't.
Thanks again steyr223 rob

PS I was under the impression that wire was plated in a bath why would it be mixed.

 

[nickvc]

I think he has that wrong Rob but get a small sample, 10 grams would be ideal, and cut it into very small pieces and put it in AP, this should prove it one way or the other.

 

[UncleBenBen]

Rob, if it is from some medical scrap, and especially if it's old stuff, then I have seen a few, very few, pins from old med scrap that were solid Au alloy. That's only a dozen or so pins and a few wires out of many many thousands I've run. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't have seen it.

But the only way to really know would be assay, or run a small sample. If you suspect it is solid alloy then maybe straight to AR or PMAR. I'm very interested to see what you end up with!

 

[g_axelsson]

I agree with GSP, there are no alloys that I know about that would have that composition. The shiny yellow surface is obviously gold, and with under 10% gold the surface would oxidize over time.

The only copper gold alloy I know about with less than 10% gold is an ancient gilding technique where you start with a few percent gold down to 0.5%. By alternating etching and polishing the gold is concentrated at the surface until there is a layer of gold protecting the surface. The resulting thickness is about the same as modern plating.

So I'm with the non-believers on this. I firmly believe that the wire is plated and not an alloy. At 8% Au it will either turn into flakes if plated or into a fine powder if an alloy.
Even as a non-believer I'm curious about the outcome. It's always fun to be proven wrong, then you learn something new.

By the way, what is the dimension of the wire on the picture?

Göran

 

[snoman701]

Thanks Nick and GSP u guys r great
I believe it's from a medical device like an MRI or something close to that
I will melt a little and do like a 1/2# in AP
I will let u know
Thanks steyr223 rob

If you melt it and mix it good with a short piece of graphite, you can then do XRF on the button and it will be closer to representative.

If it's from an MRI, as in the coils, it's likely gold plated wire.

 

[steyr223]

Before I left my friend I had put 52 grams of the wire in a 2 ltr Coke bottle with AP and left it with him .
I told him to add a capfull of h2o2 1 hour after the bubbles stopped ( knowing like all of us he is going to do 3 or 4 times more and a lot sooner) he approached me an hour later and u could see some gold flakes ,but that is the last time I seen him ,so probably tommorow I can get a better understanding ..I also made sure he would not dispose of anything

The reaction was very vigorous and instant

Göran buddy
Don't u mean u enjoy proving me wrong...hehehe
I think the wire was about 3 inches long not sure of diameter , maybe .....ok bigger than a 1/16th inch but smaller than 1/8th of an inch closer to the 1/8"....sorry I am looking at a ruler
I did notice all of the pieces we're flat on one side (the side in the pic) almost like where it was the inside of a coil wrapped around something

I will try to get a better pic
Happy new years everyone
Thanks steyr223 rob

 

[toxichild]

Jön

 

[darinventions]

Would it not be easier and more effective to cut into 10 or 20 foot lengths, twist it up into a small section and put it in a sulfuric cell and just strip the gold off of it, then you can rinse off the wire real good and cash that in at the local scrap yard,, an not have to deal with all the AP waste

 

[anachronism]

That doesn't seem to be the kind of XRF result I would expect from gold plated material. Then again maybe the XRF used has a different reporting system to mine.

If I may throw my cap into the ring here Rob, I've seen gold alloys used before and although I could be wrong, the flat part of the wire intrigues me too.

IF it does turn out to be an alloy then you're looking at a kilo of gold at which point it's safe to say that it's worth buying the Nitric 8)

 

[nickvc]

Rob does your friend know what industry this came from, if he does it may be able to research whether there is a chance it’s a solid alloy, however weird..

 

[anachronism]

I believe Rob said it's medical Nick unless I'm mistaken.

 

[steyr223]

Thanks everyone
Nickvc ,anachronism
He said from an MRI but not really sure
Definitely from something medical tho

Hopefully I will talk with him in a few hours and get an update
Thanks Steyr223 rob

 

[g_axelsson]

Göran buddy
Don't u mean u enjoy proving me wrong...hehehe

Rob my friend, if the alternative is that I'm correct and your friend got 30 g gold or I'm wrong and he got over a kilo of gold... then I'm ready to take a loss. :lol:

Being wrong now and then is just good so I'm not getting too cocky. To admit you are wrong now and then keeps you in reality.

On the other hand... always being wrong isn't any fun either.

Göran

 

[steyr223]

Göran buddy
Don't u mean u enjoy proving me wrong...hehehe

Rob my friend, if the alternative is that I'm correct and your friend got 30 g gold or I'm wrong and he got over a kilo of gold... then I'm ready to take a loss. :lol:

Being wrong now and then is just good so I'm not getting too cocky. To admit you are wrong now and then keeps you in reality.

On the other hand... always being wrong isn't any fun either.

Göran

Very true ..I read that first paragraph and I couldn't stop laughing.
I have an update
My friend has a partner that is feeding him only 1/2 pound at a time. He reported back to him thinking he understood this fine art of refining (that only takes 20 years to life to even get a grasp).....let's just say there throwing stuff away

My fault I should have never shown him what I did.
At least nobody got hurt...(yet)

I offered my services for free , but I think there is either a trust or greed issue.
We will see how this pans out.

Don't dispair.
I managed to buy 40 grams of wire and,it is sitting in some AP as of 2am this morning.
It is already dark almost black( remember I am color blind) there is enough foils or flakes to look good but most of the wire is still intact
I am not seeing 8% yet but there is still hope
I will post pics soon
Thanks steyr223 rob