Gold Transistors.

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

gaurav_347

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2013
Messages
169
Dear All,

So we have accumulated these gold plated transistors and are confused as to which process would work the best. Total weight is 4 kgs and still counting. Estimated quantity will be 20 kgs as we are are still sorting these out. These are gold plated at the bottom and if you remove the top cap you can see that they are gold plated on the top also. It takes some effort to remove the top cap.

I tried searching the forum but couldn't find these specific ones. Also any yield data on these?


Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20190824_130404.jpg
    7 MB
  • IMG_20190824_130419.jpg
    7.6 MB
  • IMG_20190824_130444.jpg
    6 MB
I used the word tophats in the forum search function, you can try other keywords (you pick up along your journey, or as you get deeper in your search for more information.
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=tophats
 
Thank you butcher for your reply. I have been searching the forum extensively but I have only been able to find other kind of resistors. It has been suggested to remove the top hats in all the posts. What if we smelt these directly with soda ash and borax and silver or lead as a collector metal? We have coal fired furnaces and they have been able to melt iron without any problems.

Thanks & Regards
Gaurav
 
You do not want to melt the iron, but oxidize it to form slag.

You are going to need more than than just borax, and soda ash in your flux, sand or glass for slag, an oxidizing agent...


I would think silver would probably be a better collector metal, silver has more of an affinity for gold than iron. silver will not alloy with iron in a melt, less likely to oxidize in the smelt (compared to lead), with flux oxidization of the iron in the smelt.
 
I would consider oxidizing the iron, before smelting it, or removing as much of it as I could before trying to recover the gold, this could be done by a couple of different means...

https://www.google.com/search?q=flux+smelting+steel+wool+cathodes&oq=flux+smelting+steel+wool+cathodes&aqs=chrome..69i57.14784j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

https://www.911metallurgist.com/laboratory/guidelines-on-flux-calculation-gold-smelting/

https://books.google.com/books?id=OuoV-o_Xf-EC&pg=PA457&lpg=PA457&dq=smelting+steel+wool+cathodes&source=bl&ots=At5z_hzlsd&sig=ACfU3U0RRa30pRUjYiYPxD8OOy1mPhGvrQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiK77-8jJ3kAhX0JzQIHXoMDgwQ6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=smelting%20steel%20wool%20cathodes&f=false
 
I am having some difficulty finding a decent gold/iron phase diagram.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02868322

https://web.utk.edu/~prack/mse201/Chapter%209%20%20Total.pdf

https://infoscience.epfl.ch/record/172861/files/Favez_AuFeSolidification.pdf

https://www.asminternational.org/documents/10192/1849770/06479G_Sample.pdf

Flux oxidation of high amounts of iron would be difficult.
Oxidation of the iron in a pre melt (oxygen/ torch), oxidizing roasting process, High fuel cost...


I would look at dissolving the bulk of the iron with some chemical hydrometallurgical process.
Thinking a bit outside the box lets make a batch of ferrous sulfate, let us use 10% H2SO4, this way we avoid chlorides, dissolve the bulk of iron, ........................oxidation roasting the sulfate residue.........flux smelting...

AuFe phase diagram.PNG

View attachment gold iron phase diagram.rtf
 
butcher said:
found one.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-08024-5_7


I feel like I am starting to talk to myself, anybody out there, anybody?


Thank you for all the data and info you shared. It's a lot to read and understand. Really appreciate you helping out. Thank you once again.
 
kjavanb123 said:
Hi

I recapl GoldSilverPro (rip) suggested dissolving in hot dilute nitric.

Thank you Kevin. I will definitely try this method out tomorrow on a 100 gram sample and report back.
 
gaurav_347 said:
It has been suggested to remove the top hats in all the posts

I've done something similar - USSR made transistors - you should definitely remove the top hats if they are magnetic (kovar, I think), won't dissolve in nitric... there are some with copper hats (larger, non magnetic), that I chucked straight in to nitric - still a waste of good acid, as far as I know there are no PMs in the hat and it can easily be removed manually...
 
I just recently did a small batch of these using Poormans AR, all were missing their legs though, I would cut them off and throw them in with batches of pins and connectors, putting the hat part aside for later.

I had been accumulating these because I didn't know how I wanted to process them, in particular how to get rid of the hat, which I never did figure out an efficient and effective way of doing that, so I had to settle for merely compromising the integrity of the hat as opposed to eliminating it.

What I did was to use a belt sander to grind off the top of the hat, just a real quick 2 second grind worked fine, thus exposing the insides. I did this mainly so that both walls of the hat would be subjected to my solution instead of just the outside, so in other words I did this solely to speed up the dissolution process of the actual hat itself.

So I think the step of grinding the hats was not necessary, the hat would dissolve whether compromised or not, but another aspect of them pushed me to do this, that they might float, especially when heated. Maybe if they floated it wouldn't have mattered, but instinct told me I wanted to avoid that, so again the grinding solved that potential issue.

The hats I processed were of all sizes, from the smaller ones which are about 3/16" to the larger ones of about 1/2". They were of all different types too, some with green or brown glass insulation, some with white ceramic.

What I relied on to do these was the reactivity series, I wanted to let the solution dissolve as much base metals as possible before it started attacking the gold, so I did this in a few increments, pouring off the solution containing only base metals. I would check with stannous before starting over with fresh solution, when the test became positive is when I went ahead and dissolved everything.

So it should go without saying that by the time I got the positive stannous test, there was hardly any base metals left to dissolve and pollute my solution, not only was the actual steel hat material long gone but also most of the base material as well, the bases reduced to shells of their former selves.

By the way, I should mention that I incinerated the hats before subjecting them to the Poormans AR, I did so after compromising them with the belt sander.

All in all this was a pretty easy process, but besides that, I can't complain about the yield either, considering that I had written these off as not worth the hassle to deal with, thus why I had been putting them aside and avoiding doing anything with them.

Problem is, I didn't care what, if anything, I got out of processing these, so I didn't take any notes or document any aspect of this refining job, sure wish I had weighed the batch after doing the incineration step.

As best I can remember, the hats filled a 500ml beaker somewhere from the 50ml to 75ml amount, so I didn't process a whole hell of a lot of them, but keep in mind that 50% of them were of the small type, also that they didn't have their legs or tops, so in other words it was pretty densely packed down there in the bottom of the beaker.

After dropping the gold from the initial filthy solution and doing a second refine, this small batch of hats yielded a .63g button, not bad if you ask me. If they had still had their legs, maybe I would have gotten a gram out of it.

What I like best about what I did, besides the part about narrowing down the process to the point that the hardest part was using the belt sander, which wasn't a big deal at all and maybe not even needed in the first place, is that I didn't have to resort to using expensive nitric, that .63g button was incredibly cheap to produce.
 
butcher said:
found one.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-08024-5_7


I feel like I am starting to talk to myself, anybody out there, anybody?

Nice find. That book also has a chapter on iron - silver. And as it's been stated before on the forum, silver and iron doesn't mix in the molten phase.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-662-08024-5_2
Abstract said:
Information on the solubility of silver in liquid and solid iron is fragmentary and conflicting. From earlier studies it may be concluded that silver and iron are virtually immiscible in the liquid state. These results have been confirmed by Vogel and von Mässenhausen [1] and Gibson and Hume-Rothery [2].

So if it is possible to melt the steel cans and using silver as a collector with a lot of stirring, you have the means to do a liquid - liquid extraction of the gold. I think I've seen numbers between 50-200 times as high concentration of gold in silver compared to what would stay in the iron.

What most people seems to do with these metal can transistors are dissolving them. Either removing the steel with nitric or pure HCl or going straight to aqua regia.

Here is an old thread about transistors in metal cans. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5535&p=47589#p47589

Göran
 
I would eliminate as much elemental iron as possible, the molten iron would absorb gold, the high iron content would make it very difficult to oxidize the iron using fluxing without high losses of your gold and collector metals...

Cost in fuel, crucibles (being oxidized trying to reduce iron), the large volume of flux needed, the time and trouble experimenting, and the difficulty in finding a flux formula recipe that may be somewhat effective for the charge, problems of oxidizing high volumes of elemental iron and getting them to form slag silicates.

We can mechanically remove some of the iron, with the transistors it would be troublesome, and we could only remove a very small portion of the iron.

Cutting, smashing flat, or grinding open the top hat cans, can prevent them from building up hot gases inside and exploding or popping open in a melt, or an incineration process to remove oils and organics...

We can dissolve, or oxidize the iron with several different means.

In an oxidizing melt at lower temperatures with oxygen addition or an oxidizing agent (high fuel cost)

Nitric acid may be the easiest (expensive, hard to get)...

Copper II Chloride, or a hot concentrated ferric chloride leach, although the chloride salts and residue will need to be considered in further operations like smelting.

10% solution of H2SO4 (or battery acid) and a little heat will dissolve the iron converting it into a ferrous sulfate (copperas solution)...
 

Latest posts

Back
Top