Green distallate when making nitric acid

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phxdale

Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2013
Messages
13
Hello,
I am a long time lurker on this site but first post since I have always found my answers using the search. I make nitric acid using potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid. My last batch I stopped before I thought it was completed. So to see if anything was left I added a small amount of water and fired it back up. In the process I was interupted and forgot to turn the heat down. I usually monitor the process with a remote infra red thermometer. When I went back to my lab to check on it, it was way too hot and was producing a green distillate. In my collection flask there were 3 layers, a red layer, a clear and on top a green layer. When I removed the collection flask it all mixed together and fizzled for a few seconds and then it was all clear.

Does anyone know what in the world I created?

The boiling flask was giving me a reading of 450 f when I shut it down.

Needless to say I did not know what it was and threw the batch out.
 
It's still good.

It's lower oxides of nitrogen (N2O4) that give this color.

a few drops of concentrated peroxide will remove this.


Lou
 
I just looked at the can and it looks like the bottom started to come apart, there are some spots that look like some flakes came off. So I think it was some metal in there.
 
It sounds to me you were distilling from a metal vessel, and if the distillate is colored (green), you most likely attacked the metal vessel with the acids, and carried metal over with the distilled product.

I would not use metal vessels when making nitric acid.

What kind of vessel are you using to distill with, what ratio KNO3 and H2SO4 are you using, and the strength of your acid, if you can give details of how you are trying to make your nitric acid, and describe the process you are using.
Maybe I can help you with it, or help you to get a better understanding of the process.
 
Its an all glass setup. Boiling flask connected to a column connected to a condenser connected to a vacumn line connection (which I plug up) then to another boling flask.

Heres how I make it, right or wrong. Pour in potasium or sodium nitrate, this was the first time I used Potasium nitrate. Then start pouring in cold sulfuric acid, soon as I see any color, put the column on so everything is connected and leave for a while. Come back when everything is room temperature, check and see if acid is just coming up to the top of the nirtrate add more if neccessary then power on the water pump and fire up a burner . Wait till it hits 200 then turn down the fire. I have 2 buckets of water, the one the pump sits in I will put 2 frozen 2 liter bottles of water and the collection flask ( I call it that - a boiling flask where the acid end up ).

When its done dripping from the condenser I power off the burner, let the pump run and leave for 1/2 hour or so. Go back out and check to see if everything is now cold. Pull the plug on the vacumn hook up. It will suck in air (most of the time). Pull the collection flask pour the acid into equal part or more distilled water and use the acid for silver.

Don't have a fume hood so I put a fan blowing left to right across me so I have a wall of air blowing out between me and the process.

I used to measue out everything and make the cold nitric and then distill that but it just took too long. Just seems easier to make fuming stuff and then cut it down in half and use it right there and dont try to store any.
 
I see no reason to make fuming nitric acid, it is not needed in refining.

In fact I will not discuss fuming nitric here on the forum, or give anyone advise on how to make it, or help them make it, for it has no use in refining at all, and many times those trying to make it can easily do harm to themselves or others.

Personally I would never leave a distilling rig unattended, that is a disaster just waiting to happen.

You can make and distill a 70% nitric acid much easier than you can the more concentrated acid.

You can make a weak nitric acid and easily concentrate it to the azeotropic 70% nitric acid.

For some processes weaker nitric acid is actually needed and can easily be made at this lower concentration.

The boiling point of the acid depends on concentration, and when distilling (or evaporation) this concentration changes during the process (and so does the boiling points).

Since you used an all glass rig (no metal) I still cannot understand where the solution would turn green, I can see where you could have decomposed the nitric with high temperature, but then I would expect it to look yellow or orange to dark orange/red with NOx gases, I have never seen it green.

Although nitric can decompose forming many different NOx gases (so I guess it is possible one of these may have given your solution the color you experienced), if you did not have any metals, tubing, corks or other materials to give this color to the solution.

(Actually you can tell an acids concentration by its boiling point, if you have an accurate way to measure the boiling point), density or titration is just an easier methods to tell an acids concentration.

Water boils at 100 degrees C (212 deg. f),
Nitric acid boils at different temperatures depending on its concentration.
With nitric acid, as the acid concentration rises, so does the boiling point of the acid, until the azeotrope nitric acid solution is reached.
O% HNO3 has a boiling point of 100 deg C (water)
20% HNO3 has a Boiling point of 103 deg. C
30% HNO3 has a Boiling point of 107 deg. C
50% HNO3 has a boiling point of 116 deg. C
70% HNO3 has a boiling point of 121 deg. C
(note here were boiling point is lower for the more concentrated acid).
90% HNO3 has a boiling point of 102 deg. C
98% HNO3 has a boiling point of 86 deg. C
(actually below the boiling point of water).

You do not need to boil an acid to concentrate it vapors will leave the solution below the boiling point of the liquid.

With evaporation water can be removed from a dilute solution of nitric acid, concentrating the acid, until the azeotropic solution of 70% HNO3 is reached, further evaporation will just vapor of 70% HNO3 until the vessel is dry. you cannot concentrate the acid further by this process, so it is possible to concentrate a solution of 20% HNO3 up to 70% HNO3 by carefully vaporizing off the water from the acid. Note with this process the boiling point of the acid is helpful to know, but we do not need to boil the solution (actually boiling would be counter productive), we can do this keeping the acid below the boiling point of the acid at that concentration, and still vapor off liquid easily.

Evaporation and boiling are distinctly different, evaporation liquid is vaporized off the surface. Boiling is the bubbles of gases forming from the bottom of the solution rising to the surface and releasing these gases in small explosions of the bursting bubbles.
The pressure of the atmosphere above the liquid can change the boiling point of liquids.
Example water can be boiled at room temperature under a vacuum, and in a pressurized vessel water will not boil even at 100 deg C (or 212 deg. F).

Example at O PSIG (14.7 PSIA) water boils at 212 deg.F (100deg. C)
Or
At 30 PSIG water boils at 374 deg. F.
In a vacuum at 29"HG water boils at 40 deg. F.

When heating a solution or mixture of liquids, the different liquids in solution have different vapor pressures, and boil at different temperatures, the more volatile mixture will be the first to leave the solution.
When the solution or mixture of different liquids have different enough boiling points they can often be separated into individual components by distillation (or evaporation).
When the solution is heated the temperature of the solution will rise when heated until the solution reaches the boiling point of that liquid (or the most volatile liquid), adding more heat will not raise the temperature of the liquid any further until all of that liquid has boiled off, then the temperature of the solution will rise again until reaching the boiling point of the second liquid in solution the added heat again will not raise the temperature of the solution until this liquid has been boiled off.


Sulfuric acid also has different boiling points depending on its concentration.
At 450 degrees F, that is the about the boiling point of 85% H2SO4.

The approximate boiling point for 35% H2SO4 is about 225 deg. F.
65% H2SO4 boils at about 300 deg. F.
98% H2SO4 has a boiling point around 620 deg. F.
 
Perhaps either nickel or copper ions were in your nitric acid distillate. You could try scraping a few small metal flakes or bits from the potassium nitrate can and adding these to a few drops of your nitric acid and seeing if it turns green.
 
I'm telling you it's N2O4. Happened to me many times when I needed to make the concentrated reagent.

In any case, just be happy with azeotropic nitric acid and use a vacuum for distillation (even an aspirator). It'll help prevent decomposition to NOx, which is making your distillation way inefficient.
 

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