HCL & Bubbler V Aqua Regia Question

[user 72646]

Hi All

if HCL & a Bubbler can dissolve Gold, what is the difference between using this method and using AR?
Does dissolving with AR improve purity? and if so why, as both dissolve the Gold.
Is the use of AR preferable because of the ability to dissolve Ag and Pd and clean away other less valuable metals in solution (cleaner solution cleaner Gold)?
My question is Gold specific.

MM

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi All

if HCL & a Bubbler can dissolve Gold, what is the difference between using this method and using AR?
Does dissolving with AR improve purity? and if so why, as both dissolve the Gold.
Is the use of AR preferable because of the ability to dissolve Ag and Pd and clean away other less valuable metals in solution (cleaner solution cleaner Gold)?
My question is Gold specific.

MM

HCl and bubbler may dissolve a minute amount of Gold, and that is barely measurable.
AR will dissolve Gold and that in appreciable amounts and the only method that can be used on solid Gold.
HCl/Bleach will also dissolve Gold but is much weaker and slower than AR and can be used on powders and foils only.
HCl/Peroxide will also dissolve Gold but if the Peroxide is weak ie under 10-12% barely measurable.
Strong Peroxide with HCl will dissolve foils and powders and is better and stronger than HCl/Bleach in most ways.

If you had done your studies you would have known!

 

[Shark]

Hi All

if HCL & a Bubbler can dissolve Gold,

HCl and air pump does not dissolve gold. This is AP, copper(ll)chloride, used to remove base metals prior to processing any gold involved.
The over use of peroxide with HCl does have the limited ability dissolve gold.

what is the difference between using this method and using AR?

These are two completely different processes that do two different things.

Does dissolving with AR improve purity? and if so why, as both dissolve the Gold.

Only the AR dissolves gold. While AR can dissolve base metals it is best to remove these before proceeding to AR. There are times when going straight to AR can be useful, it is not advised to do so until one understands the differences in AP, AR and there interactions with various metals.

Is the use of AR preferable because of the ability to dissolve Ag and Pd and clean away other less valuable metals in solution (cleaner solution cleaner Gold)?

AR will not dissolve silver. It may convert it to silver chloride. Which can be filtered from any AR that has silver in it.

My question is Gold specific.

MM

Using AR to dissolve gold along with base metals can work. But only if you fully understand how to separate the gold from the rest while in AR. So, for the majority, remove base metals with HCl+bubbler. Then what is left can go to AR.

Over all it best not to use any chemicals until you fully understand these processes, what the differences are, and most of all, how to use those differences safely to your benefit.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi All

if HCL & a Bubbler can dissolve Gold, what is the difference between using this method and using AR?
Does dissolving with AR improve purity? and if so why, as both dissolve the Gold.
Is the use of AR preferable because of the ability to dissolve Ag and Pd and clean away other less valuable metals in solution (cleaner solution cleaner Gold)?
My question is Gold specific.

MM

I did not notice the notion on Silver and Pd here.
As Shark said AR will not dissolve Silver but pure Nitric will dissolve both Pd and Ag

 

[user 72646]

So even a poor AR solution 1 part Potassium Nitrate and 3 parts HCL does not touch silver?
I see that fact in hokes
Aqua Regia and Silver. Cover a small piece of silver (fine or alloyed) with a little aqua regia. If desired, warm the vessel. Most beginners are surprised at the result. They think of aqua regia as a powerful acid which it is and so expect it to dissolve silver. It does affect it; it changes its color and soon coats it with a firm ad herent layer of gray or whitish substance. This is silver chlorid

noted.

ok so after dissolving gold in filters with bleach and hcl, would oxalic acid be best for gold drop?
as the solution is not AR (nitrate &hcl),

 

[user 72646]

sorry uncompleted message.

would Hcl and bleach have capacity to create a silver chloride?

 

[Shark]

ok so after dissolving gold in filters with bleach and hcl, would oxalic acid be best for gold drop?
as the solution is not AR (nitrate &hcl),

My opinion, no.
Oxalic acid needs to be pretty hot to work well. The AR needs to be heated as well and can react very violently. This makes it very easy to create a run away reaction that could easily become a disaster of hot to boiling acids. Sodium metabisulfite or copperas would be much easier, especially for a beginner, to learn to use.

would Hcl and bleach have capacity to create a silver chloride?

Yes. When you see chloride in the name, it will generally reduce metals to their chloride state, thus any silver involved with hydrochloric acid will convert most or all of it to silver chloride. For example, nitric acid dissolves silver. By adding table salt (sodium chloride) it will drop the silver from the nitric as silver chloride.

Edit: this conversion is assuming you have an oxidizer so the hydrochloric can access the metal state to create the chloride version.

 

[user 72646]

Hi Shark
This may have occurred
I have a solution (images) which looks likes it may have silver chloride beneath some gold sands?
looks like lead.
I want confirm with hot water, does that mean boiling water?
MM

 

[Shark]

Hi Shark
This may have occurred
I have a solution (images) which looks likes it may have silver chloride beneath some gold sands?
looks like lead.
I want confirm with hot water, does that mean boiling water?
MM

This needs to be moved to the post where you started processing this material so future search’s can follow along. Having it scattered only helps you for now. I will respond once it is moved.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi Shark
This may have occurred
I have a solution (images) which looks likes it may have silver chloride beneath some gold sands?
looks like lead.
I want confirm with hot water, does that mean boiling water?
MM

I am tempted to ban you for a few days so you can catch up with your studies.
You are behaving like a ferret with concentration issues,
all over the place with no plan and no time to absorb the advice given to you.
STOP IT NOW!

And start studying and then ask advice when you think you understand something.

This is the same 1.3 Kgs of PCBs right?
1. There is no Silver in PCBs
2. There is very little Gold in/on the PCBs even if it is fully plated the layer is very thin.
If you used HCl in any form there is no Silver even if the material have Silver in it.
I'd guess max 0.5-1gram in the whole lot.

You have not showed us one positive Stannous test.
By the way the container has most likely a thick layer of Copper (I) Chloride with some hydroxides in it.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi Shark
This may have occurred
I have a solution (images) which looks likes it may have silver chloride beneath some gold sands?
looks like lead.
I want confirm with hot water, does that mean boiling water?
MM

There is no Lead in modern electronics, at least very little.
Do you even know how Lead Chloride looks like?

 

[Martijn]

STOP IT NOW!

And start studying and then ask advice when you think you understand something.

Good advice.

Midasmitch, put your solutions away and study. You are getting good replies but are not on a level where you fully understand it all yet.

Study and read your threads again. Try to understand the things being said and asked.

And ask first. Before you try!

 

[user 72646]

There is no Lead in modern electronics, at least very little.
Do you even know how Lead Chloride looks like?

early 2000's electronics maybe earlier.
I thought lead chloride looked like this (image), does not dissolve in hot water.
that was the test I read in cm hokes. lead chloride does not dissolve in hot water.. this paste did not
so I can assume it is not silver chloride, and must be a chloride of another base metal
mm

 

[user 72646]

here again beneath sands

 

[FrugalRefiner]

early 2000's electronics maybe earlier.
I thought lead chloride looked like this (image), does not dissolve in hot water.
that was the test I read in cm hokes. lead chloride does not dissolve in hot water.. this paste did not
so I can assume it is not silver chloride, and must be a chloride of another base metal
mm

Midasmitch, I'm sorry but you just don't seem to be understanding. Your statement is just opposite of the facts. Lead chloride does dissolve in hot water. It is a technique that helps separate lead chloride from silver chloride.

Silver chloride does not dissolve in hot water.

Even in your post you say "that was the test I read in cm hokes. lead chloride does not dissolve in hot water.. this paste did not
so I can assume it is not silver chloride," That doesn't make any sense. You read that lead chloride does not dissolve in hot water (it does), your paste did not dissolve, so you assume it is silver chloride. I don't understand.

Dave

 

[Shark]

You cannot go through a few posts on the forum, a few questions or even a few pages of Hoke and really expect to understand this. I started 10+ years ago and find things almost daily that is new to me. You will need to bring all of these together in a way that is understandable.

We can’t answer most of your questions because by the time we do, you have changed your process before we get to them. This is why we keep saying to stop or put away your chemicals. This means do not add bleach to your acetic acid and peroxide. Do not add nitric, bleach, or even water to it until we can get on the save playing field together. The way you’re jumping around is what is termed “holding your hand”, the way you would a child you’re afraid will get hurt without help. Finish Hoke, read it again, search for details you don’t understand on the forum search. Ask question you can’t find. Do all of this without your chemicals. I had a detailed plan several times to help you, but before we got to them you made changes that caused those plans to not work the way that was planned. Slow down, take a break, read, study and most importantly think about what you’re reading.

When you think your ready to try again, layout a detailed, step by step plan and let the forum members analyze the plan, giving us time to come back with advice or changes that may be needed, BEFORE mixing up chemicals.

Use this time to collect materials, pick up
Odds and ends, or even basic chemicals. Set up a safe work space. Contemplate if this is even something you still want to try. What is your plan for any gold you may recover? Do want to sell it? Do you have a buyer? How will you dispose of your chemical wastes? ( search “dealing with waste” on the forum search) a whole plethora of questions come to mind, and will you too, once you really start to grasp more of this.

Give us time to get back to you, many members have families, jobs or other things to do in life than this forum. We try to help, free and happy to do so, especially when we see positive advances being made. A lack of positive response can burn us out pretty quick.

Anyway, take a break and study a bit, leave what you have in a safe place and manor, and we can pick up once you gain more knowledge.

 

[Yggdrasil]

here again beneath sands

And here again, it is not Lead Chloride, most likely Cooper (I) Chloride with Hydroxides on top.
NOW PUT YOUR CHEMICALS AWAY, AND START TO STUDY PROPERLY!!
You demonstrate quite clearly you do not understand yet.
And you do not take advice and tips to heart either.

 

[Martijn]

Good advice.

Midasmitch, put your solutions away and study. You are getting good replies but are not on a level where you fully understand it all yet.

Study and read your threads again. Try to understand the things being said and asked.

And ask first. Before you try!

Midasmitch, you like my comment, but then continue with the same "help me now" attitidue..

Please read the advice given.
To summarize:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/search/75420/?q=midasmitch+++study&o=relevance
And read this:

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...imple-question-and-get-a-simple-answer.21412/

 

[user 72646]

Thanks, and I will keep studying, I absolutely appreciate the feedback.
chemistry is a science and rules can not be broken, nor any fast track to knowledge, this needs extensive studying, particularly the exchanges that occur, why and how materials react with each other.
I am sticking with this reaction as my First point of study.. (aucl and cucl2) and the relationship between them>
thanks again

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thanks, and I will keep studying, I absolutely appreciate the feedback.
chemistry is a science and rules can not be broken, nor any fast track to knowledge, this needs extensive studying, particularly the exchanges that occur, why and how materials react with each other.
I am sticking with this reaction as my First point of study.. (aucl and cucl2) and the relationship between them>
thanks again

You can remove the top one.
That reaction is so small and infrequent I'm not sure it can be measured.

Edit, on second check you need to make a new one.
There is no way Cu(II)Cl will dissolve Au and create Gold Chloride.
Or precipitate for that matter.
Copper metal will cement out Gold from Gold Chloride that is true.