Hcl to dissolve tin

[Williamjf77]

I have a quick question about using Hcl to depopulate and dissolve tin, is it better to dilute 31%hcl when dissolving tin?

I may be wrong but doesn’t Hcl especially when hot just fume off Hcl vapor until it is 20%. Does the water play any roll in dissolving tin?

 

[Jmk88]

Don’t use hcl.

Use sodium hydroxide. Solder is the problem which is lead and tin.

Make sure you understand the safety of working with it but it will remove all solder rapidly.

 

[anachronism]

Don’t use hcl.

Use sodium hydroxide. Solder is the problem which is lead and tin.

Make sure you understand the safety of working with it but it will remove all solder rapidly.

OK please explain the chemistry of using lye rather than HCl. .

 

[Jmk88]

Do you ever have anything positive to contribute?

I don’t need to explain the chemistry. It works.

You explain why hcl is better.

 

[butcher]

You do not have to write equations to explain a chemical reaction or why you believe sodium hydroxide is better than using Hydrochloric acid to remove solder lead and tin...

you are the one telling everyone not to use HCl to remove lead or tin solder, but that they should use NaOH, so a member asked you why and asking you to give an explanation of your statement...


Hoping that you had something to contribute.


Basically back up your statement with something besides just words ...

Now I am also wondering why should I not use HCl and use NaOH... Hoping you have something to contribute.

 

[nickvc]

Given the choice I think I’d rather use HCl rather than lye as the dangers are far less, i class lye with concentrated sulphuric and use only with extreme caution.

 

[Jmk88]

Here comes the multitude of chemistry equations....

Because it breaks away the solder where as hcl will react slow with it.

Butcher with all due respect I have asked you that question 3 times and you didn’t once answer me; I spent an hour with a professional refiner and he was a bit bamboozled at your posts too. From a refining POV.

Tell me why you wouldn’t use lye?

 

[Jmk88]

I use a tinned drink for example.

If a child asks you how to open a tin, you simply explain that you please your thumb under the ring and pull up.

Why would you explain that the ring is a cantilevered system that relies on the density differences between two of the same components in order to excerpt excessive compressive strength on the bottom component via the top.

The kid would look at you like you have 9 heads.

Very similar to how you gus are bamboozling people that want to know the practicality of things, not the chemistry.

Hoke clearly states it’s unnecessary and I have confidence that Baird and co refiners know what they’re talking about. Particularly the man I shadow who I would humbly suggest is more advanced in chemistry than your average man.

The approach doesn’t make sense. If anything, can you explain the rate of dissolution of lead in hcl? Any material quantity’s of decent size will have shit loads of lead; the chap posting seems to think it’s just tin. Hcl will not dissolve lead efficiently at all. You well know this.

The fact he’s discussing hcl suggests he has no nitric so how do you justify using hcl (way more hazardous) than hydroxide? You need to use far more material and spend more time.

That’s how you make money... spend more time and materials than the man next to you. Not.

 

[anachronism]

Here comes the multitude of chemistry equations....

Because it breaks away the solder where as hcl will react slow with it.

Butcher with all due respect I have asked you that question 3 times and you didn’t once answer me; I spent an hour with a professional refiner and he was a bit bamboozled at your posts too. From a refining POV.

Tell me why you wouldn’t use lye?

I'll happily answer that for you when you've answered my question. Answering a question with a question ends up in a never ending loop.

 

[Jmk88]

I know the answer.

With all due respect sir, I’m not too worried about any information from you.

You seem more concerned talking to me or trying to catch me out rather than helping the chap asking a question.

Your intent is clear to me and I would kindly ask you don’t reply to my posts unless I have given incorrect advice.

I’m here to learn and pass on my experience to others; not offer theoretical education.

All the best.

 

[anachronism]

Wow how patronising. Where do we find people like you.

 

[Jmk88]

Jon,

Again, with all respect, I’ve not witnessed one positive post you’ve made to one member here.

Yet you expect the same respect as people such as Butcher etc. Doesn’t really work that way, neither does life.

As I say, unless it’s to point out misinformation or contribute something to answer the questions people are asking, I kindly suggest we stick to our own paths.

Cheers,

 

[butcher]

If I tried to explain why I would not use caustic soda it would confuse your refiner, I might use equations or terms he does not understand related to the chemistry he is doing...

Sorry, I wasted my time trying to help answer your questions.

Give my apology to your refiner, tell him if he wishes to learn the chemistry involved, or for me to explain the equations or my post, he is welcome to join the forum, he may find the information very helpful to his business if he learns to understand the chemistry, and the answers I provided you within that post ...

And I am sorry you feel I have wasted your time.

I think I can explain how to open a soda can to any kid (monkey see monkey doo)...

But explaining recovery and refining to someone who knows very little about it, well that is harder for me to do, it is not like I can just show the monkey and the monkey doo, the monkey would have to learn and gain an understanding of the language and terms used, basically he might have to study some gain a better understanding.

Seriously I thought I was trying to help, and I thought I was answering your questions to the best of my ability and my intention is not to confuse or baffle anyone.

Whenever you study a field or are learning any skill you are going to run into things like equations you do not understand. or someone may use those equations in an explanation of a question that you have.

That is where we educate ourselves to be able to understand those equations or explanations during our study of that field of work...
Ask the person answering the question too dumb down his answer where any monkey can understand it, or find another source of information to answer your questions that speaks more in a language we understand.

 

[Jmk88]

Butcher,

I’m not having a pop. I was simply passing on what I was told. Which is kind of reinforced by Hoke.

A great teacher will always understand that minds work differently; whilst you clearly have a gifted mind for chemistry, others simply don’t.

I grew up in a very excluded education system where unless you’re an A* chemistry and maths student, you’re told you’ll never go far.

I just wish I had the confidence I have as an adult to challenge that.

The chemistry is needed on a basic level; for people predominantly with a basic understanding.

I simply can’t understand why you would bathe in hcl instead. I literally witnessed the tin and leaf removal start occurring in 60 seconds. I even saw soldered components completely separate from 2 kilos of jewellery by the end of my first day.

And the comments given regarding your chemistry were actually the opposite; that they are rather advanced and you clearly know what you’re talking. They was not belittling your knowledge; rather criticising your method of teach. That’s all.

 

[butcher]

If this goes on much farther, we should take it to debates and discussions.

I cannot see where this discussion is helping anyone learn the complicated reactions of tin.

I can smell trouble in the air, gentlemen we should settle between ourselves without disturbing those wishing to learn about tin.

I cannot see where this discussion will lead forward to help anyone.

 

[Jmk88]

Agreed.

I’ll Pm.

 

[butcher]

I did not understand the chemistry when I joined the forum, it took time for me to begin to understand it.
You do not need to understand the equations although you will find them extremely useful if you do.


I know it may seem over your head, but believe it or not, that is how I learned.

I spent 12 years in school and could not read after graduation, I taught myself how to read after I was an adult mainly by studying technical manuals related to the different fields of work I was involved in.

I knew almost nothing about electronics, but I wanted to learn.

I could not read schematics, I could not do the complicated math formulas, heck I did not even understand the language, but I ordered a subscription to a couple of magazines, popular mechanics and electronics now along with any other electronic book I could find anything

When I began reading there was almost nothing I read that I understood, but I would struggle past that until I found myself finding something I did understand, as I read and studied I began to understand more and more of the language, I began learning how to read schematics, design, and repair most anything electronic...


I can easily try and dumb down my answer and leave out the equations I was trying to use to help explain it, but I do not think that would be fair to you or me, or the other members reading our discussions, you would not be exposed to it, or some of the other very helpful information you may pick up from it, and I would not be helping you or others to the best of my ability.






I

 

[nickvc]

The fact he’s discussing hcl suggests he has no nitric so how do you justify using hcl (way more hazardous) than hydroxide? You need to use far more material and spend more time.

Sorry but this is complete rubbish lye is extremely dangerous, if you splash a little HCl on you it will do little damage to your skin or even eyes that is permanent I really wouldn’t want to do the same with lye....
The lye may well be faster but I wouldn’t feel happy suggesting that to everyone especially those with little understanding of the dangers involved.

 

[g_axelsson]

I simply can’t understand why you would bathe in hcl instead. I literally witnessed the tin and lead removal start occurring in 60 seconds. I even saw soldered components completely separate from 2 kilos of jewellery by the end of my first day.

Are you talking about electronic components or jewellery? It's two totally different feed stocks.

Putting safety issues apart, what concentration of lye do you recommend?

Just telling people to use lye adds a lot of ambiguity as lye often comes as a solid and you have to mix it yourself. It is well known that lye reacts different with components than hydrochloric does, even the circuit board reacts with lye.

Göran

 

[snoman701]

This whole thread is a bit disappointing. Quit bickering please.

Tin and lead are both amphoteric. They will react with acid or base.

With base, forming sodium stannate or sodium plumbate and hydrogen gas.