Major thanks and appreciation to this forum

[Nouran Alaa]

Hi everyone!
on April I posted this thread
Major Gold Losses in New Gold Refinery
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/major-gold-losses-in-new-gold-refinery-plant-help.34317/

and in August I posted this thread
Cementing with Zinc didn't go as planned
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/cementing-with-zinc-didnt-go-as-planned.34839/post-375418


Everyone on this forum was very helpful and specially 4Metals who did not hesitate to explain thoroughly what could have gone wrong.

I'm updating you now in December when my refinery now has recovered from the major losses it had.
The Gold losses are now highly controlled and within the normal accepted range.

I hired a much more experienced technician and followed every advice here religiously. Whenever I find myself facing a new issue I get back to these threads and usually find an answer.

I wanted to wait until things were under control to celebrate with you the minor success we had in our refinery.


Thank you all for your support!


Best Regards
Nouran

 

[Lou]

Glad to hear!!

 

[kurtak]

I'm updating you now in December when my refinery now has recovered from the major losses it had.
The Gold losses are now highly controlled and within the normal accepted range.

Very good to hear

Thank you for updating us

Kurt

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi everyone!
on April I posted this thread
Major Gold Losses in New Gold Refinery
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/major-gold-losses-in-new-gold-refinery-plant-help.34317/

and in August I posted this thread
Cementing with Zinc didn't go as planned
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/cementing-with-zinc-didnt-go-as-planned.34839/post-375418


Everyone on this forum was very helpful and specially 4Metals who did not hesitate to explain thoroughly what could have gone wrong.

I'm updating you now in December when my refinery now has recovered from the major losses it had.
The Gold losses are now highly controlled and within the normal accepted range.

I hired a much more experienced technician and followed every advice here religiously. Whenever I find myself facing a new issue I get back to these threads and usually find an answer.

I wanted to wait until things were under control to celebrate with you the minor success we had in our refinery.


Thank you all for your support!


Best Regards
Nouran

Excellent news

 

[nickvc]

It’s always good to hear a success story.

 

[Shark]

I agree, hearing the success stories help to give credit to the forum and it's members.

Thanks for the update.

 

[4metals]

This thread puts a happy face on my day, thank you for posting your progress, and don't be a stranger, we can be useful with anything refinery related.

 

[goldshark]

Hi everyone!
on April I posted this thread
Major Gold Losses in New Gold Refinery
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/major-gold-losses-in-new-gold-refinery-plant-help.34317/

and in August I posted this thread
Cementing with Zinc didn't go as planned
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/cementing-with-zinc-didnt-go-as-planned.34839/post-375418


Everyone on this forum was very helpful and specially 4Metals who did not hesitate to explain thoroughly what could have gone wrong.

I'm updating you now in December when my refinery now has recovered from the major losses it had.
The Gold losses are now highly controlled and within the normal accepted range.

I hired a much more experienced technician and followed every advice here religiously. Whenever I find myself facing a new issue I get back to these threads and usually find an answer.

I wanted to wait until things were under control to celebrate with you the minor success we had in our refinery.


Thank you all for your support!


Best Regards
Nouran

So we would like to know the reasons for getting losses under control. It is part of the learning on this forum, be it good or bad. If you would care to share, we would appreciate it.

 

[4metals]

we would like to know the reasons for getting losses under control. It is part of the learning on this forum

Truth of the matter is they may never know. Kind of like closing the barn door after the horse has gone.

If I were to guess, literally from the other side of the world, there is the obvious culprit of theft. If your staff knows you don't know what is happening small losses can pile up. Once they got it figured out, and their help knew it, the party was over. Sad to say this scenario plays out all over the world. The only refiners insulated from it are the ones that spend big on security, metal detectors, and cameras. A lot of overhead for a small shop.

The second and a high probability cause was the filter trolley. The particular filter they have is an excellent filter, it is self powered with a pump to suck and discharge through the filter media and deposit into the tank for the next process, very efficient, but if the operator is not aware solution laden with gold is trapped beneath the filter plate. If they simply moved the filter for the post precipitation rinses without emptying the filter entirely, they could easily lose a liter or more of pregnant acid. It would be pumped with the waste liquids and possibly totally overlooked. When I explained to her how to use the system I pointed this out with photo's from the exact same system I had installed in 3 American Refineries. So she had good images to learn from and prevent future losses. Losing as many as 3 ounces of fine gold trapped in a poorly rinsed filter per lot can add up. The acid filtered from the tumbler is loaded pregnant acid running around 7 ounces of karat gold per liter. This is strictly operator error and not theft. But losses nonetheless. They would have noticed the difference immediately.

The possibility of the silver chlorides holding gold is real too. Bars of Silver Chloride reduced from this process can contain as much as 1% Gold. She never discussed setting up a Silver cell to make fine Silver and recover the Gold from the slimes.

I would still like to hear her story but these are my 3 best bets to account for losses.

 

[nickvc]

I think one point for all to remember is that losses do occur however careful you are , if we can discount negligence and theft from the system all losses should be mostly recovered at a later date but knowing where to look and how to ensure you do recover those losses is part of the art , not science , of refining.
The one thing that makes you learn is to have your own money on the line it truly fuels that need to improve.

 

[Shark]

The one thing that makes you learn is to have your own money on the line it truly fuels that need to improve.

Yes, that is a huge motivation. Even the small, home refiner knows this and is why many use a stockpot to recover those losses. Money is a great motivator.

 

[4metals]

One of the things I've learned in life is if you want people to respond go for their wallet!

 

[Nouran Alaa]

So we would like to know the reasons for getting losses under control. It is part of the learning on this forum, be it good or bad. If you would care to share, we would appreciate it.

Yes Sure

-The first thing I worked on was the process itself
Filtering everything properly and checking that the water has precipitated all the gold (the forum suggested Stannous chloride which was very helpful) in determining that we precipitated properly

- The Second thing was hiring someone who is familiar with the suggested steps and cautious with every drop of water

-The third thing is learning where to search for the lost gold and how to recover it
I would say the best advice would be not to lose it in the first place, but losses and recovery are part of the process of any refinery
I used to spend so much time suspecting the waters and searching for the gold in them
when in fact it was somewhere else
- some was trapped in the silver - some was recovered from burning the waste used during the process (gloves, cotton,... etc) - some was in random places in the lab due to inadequate handling of the water - some of the crucibles I used where not of great quality which were later recalled by the manufacturer


Over all it was a lengthy process of searching where we might have gone wrong and fixing each issue along the way

it took us a couple of months, but better late than sorry

 

[nickvc]

The sciences of recovery and refining are easily learnt with some effort but learning the arts of them takes time, my point of when it’s your money at risk is definitely at play here it makes you really keen to learn those arts as its your money going astray.
Knowing where loses are likely and keeping good data helps to minimize any loses and makes recovery a lot easier and depending on the throughput of material even small loses amount to a lot of values that can be recovered at a later date.
I’m really pleased you found your problems and have plugged those particular failures but be aware that you will still have missing values so knowing every process helps to point you in the right direction for that later recovery.
One place where values can accumulate is the melting room where spitting , bad pours and fluxes can hold considerable amounts so melt room sweeps need to be held for recovery.

 

[4metals]

@Nouran Alaa Thank you for the follow up. Members should realize that the success you were able to attain was because you took the time to fill in the details to our questions. If you ever decide to refine your own Silver from the Silver Chloride generated in the process you are using, do not hesitate to return and we can give you the necessary options based on how much Silver Chloride you generate in any given week.

We love a success story as much as you do.

 

[goldshark]

Yes Sure

-The first thing I worked on was the process itself
Filtering everything properly and checking that the water has precipitated all the gold (the forum suggested Stannous chloride which was very helpful) in determining that we precipitated properly

- The Second thing was hiring someone who is familiar with the suggested steps and cautious with every drop of water

-The third thing is learning where to search for the lost gold and how to recover it
I would say the best advice would be not to lose it in the first place, but losses and recovery are part of the process of any refinery
I used to spend so much time suspecting the waters and searching for the gold in them
when in fact it was somewhere else
- some was trapped in the silver - some was recovered from burning the waste used during the process (gloves, cotton,... etc) - some was in random places in the lab due to inadequate handling of the water - some of the crucibles I used where not of great quality which were later recalled by the manufacturer


Over all it was a lengthy process of searching where we might have gone wrong and fixing each issue along the way

it took us a couple of months, but better late than sorry

Thank you for the detailed up date!