New to refining, please help

[Fayad]

We have a Soil (silt - clay), we want to get gold out of it.
Soil is rich in silca about 50%
ground to 150 mesh prior to roasting
We did roasting for two hours, it turned from gray to red with golden flakes


We prepared the flux like this:
800g soil concentrate
800g Sodium bicarbonate
250g borax
50g flour
70g Soda ash
Lead as a collector metal 350g

We did smelting by adding the flux part by part when the flux decreases.

After smelting we got a like green - black glass ( like volcanic glass), we got 340g lead,

We started evaporating lead over cement, after we finished we got a metal is green like small balls and a green surface with a golden to brownish on the top of it.

I think the photos will describe better, please take a look.

Soil after roasting
After lead evaporating it's greenish yellow (still hot)
After cooling green surface with a golden to brownish.
Soil during roasting

We couldn't identify what is the alloy, or is there gold or not, or we should go with farther steps, or there's something wrong we did?

 

[andu]

If you can get ahold of more soil concentrate try sending it over for analysis, might cost a bit but you know with a bit of certainity what you get.

 

[Yggdrasil]

We have a Soil (silt - clay), we want to get gold out of it.
Soil is rich in silca about 50%
ground to 150 mesh prior to roasting
We did roasting for two hours, it turned from gray to red with golden flakes


We prepared the flux like this:
800g soil concentrate
800g Sodium bicarbonate
250g borax
50g flour
70g Soda ash
Lead as a collector metal 350g

We did smelting by adding the flux part by part when the flux decreases.

After smelting we got a like green - black glass ( like volcanic glass), we got 340g lead,

We started evaporating lead over cement, after we finished we got a metal is green like small balls and a green surface with a golden to brownish on the top of it.

I think the photos will describe better, please take a look.

Soil after roasting
After lead evaporating it's greenish yellow (still hot)
After cooling green surface with a golden to brownish.
Soil during roasting

We couldn't identify what is the alloy, or is there gold or not, or we should go with farther steps, or there's something wrong we did?

Welcome to us.

First a few questions.
Why do you expect there are Gold in the soil?
Any historic or other reason to expect Gold?
You obviously did not get an assay, which is the first step you should have done.

The Lead should have been in the form of Litharge (Lead Oxide),
and the flux ore mix should have been intimately mixed, preferably milled together.
And it only work if there are Gold in there in the first place.

So my recommendation is to get an assay or do one yourself.
Suggested reading:

Introduction to Torch Assaying by Charles L. Butler, you will find it in Google

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Here is a general list of what to study:

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[Fayad]

I did smelting again for the result in the photo I shared,

I got this, in the photo

 

[goldshark]

Now you need to cupel off the Lead, to reveal your PMs.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I did smelting again for the result in the photo I shared,

I got this, in the photo

You now have some Lead that can be cupeled.
But you have not answered why you expect there to be Gold in it.
Are there historical reasons or what?
If you cupel it and find a bead it will tell if there are anything in the Lead.

 

[Martijn]

golden flakes

Sounds like pyrite not gold

 

[Fayad]

Hello all

Thank you for your replies.

Actually, we did atomic absorption analysis for a sample from 2m depth, we got Au 0.3 ppm
We did the same for a sample from 3m depth we got Au 0.4 ppm

We go deeper into 7m depth we found oxidation zone ( yellow - red - black), all of the layers ( silt - silt clay- clay ), except a thin layer of gravels in 5m depth the gravel is altered and coated with silica, jasperoid is present, although the area is an ancient rainwater delta region, the gravels are flattened and not rounded well and some of them are broken.

We took a sample from 7m depth we did panning, the golden flakes still in the bottom.

We found somethings look like nuggets but clay coated, the soil from 3m depth to 7m depth very rich of this kind of nuggets, we cleaned them from clay we got black nuggets we broke it apart we looked inside it is black. When we cleaned them with water and soap we got golden gray color broke it apart still black inside, we put them on the stovetop burner for 5 minutes they turned black and left the stovetop burner with torns and red green golden colors (you can see in the image), we put them on a spoon they turned whitish gray and left the spoon with colors ( golden- yellow- red) (you can see in the image), we crashed them we got a light gray powder, we took this powder we smelt it (direct fire assaying) with small amount of silver we got balls their colors are ( 70% silvery - 20% white - a little yellow). We did the same with 100g of soil we got balls ( you can see in the image ) and melting them together we got ( you can see in the image).

We decided to do smelting with flux using lead as collector metal, recently we did another smelting, lead is a collector metal and we added 10g silver after cupelling off we got ( you can see in the image) we did melting and we got (you can see in the image) After being cooled it turned white, we melted the alloy and pulled it like a chip it is 11g (you can see the image)

There is another group took the sample that we prepared with direct fire assaying (the one like ball) it was 6g they treated it with nitric the got 1 milligrams pure gold.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello all

Thank you for your replies.

Actually, we did atomic absorption analysis for a sample from 2m depth, we got Au 0.3 ppm
We did the same for a sample from 3m depth we got Au 0.4 ppm

We go deeper into 7m depth we found oxidation zone ( yellow - red - black), all of the layers ( silt - silt clay- clay ), except a thin layer of gravels in 5m depth the gravel is altered and coated with silica, jasperoid is present, although the area is an ancient rainwater delta region, the gravels are flattened and not rounded well and some of them are broken.

We took a sample from 7m depth we did panning, the golden flakes still in the bottom.

We found somethings look like nuggets but clay coated, the soil from 3m depth to 7m depth very rich of this kind of nuggets, we cleaned them from clay we got black nuggets we broke it apart we looked inside it is black. When we cleaned them with water and soap we got golden gray color broke it apart still black inside, we crashed them we got a light gray powder, we took this powder we smelt it (direct fire assaying) with small amount of silver we got balls their colors are ( 70% silvery - 20% white - a little yellow). We did the same with 100g of soil we got balls ( you can see in the image ) and melting them together we got ( you can see in the image).

We decided to do smelting with flux using lead as collector metal, recently we did another smelting, lead is a collector metal and we added 10g silver after cupelling off we got ( you can see in the image) we did melting and we got (you can see in the image) After being cooled it turned white, we melted the alloy and pulled it like a chip it is 11g (you can see the image)

There is another group took the sample that we prepared with direct fire assaying (the one like ball) it was 6g they treated it with nitric the got 1 milligrams pure gold.

That is 0.3-0.4 gram per 1000Kg, I do not think that is worth processing if the sample is representative.
If cherry picked even less.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello all

Thank you for your replies.

Actually, we did atomic absorption analysis for a sample from 2m depth, we got Au 0.3 ppm
We did the same for a sample from 3m depth we got Au 0.4 ppm

We go deeper into 7m depth we found oxidation zone ( yellow - red - black), all of the layers ( silt - silt clay- clay ), except a thin layer of gravels in 5m depth the gravel is altered and coated with silica, jasperoid is present, although the area is an ancient rainwater delta region, the gravels are flattened and not rounded well and some of them are broken.

We took a sample from 7m depth we did panning, the golden flakes still in the bottom.

We found somethings look like nuggets but clay coated, the soil from 3m depth to 7m depth very rich of this kind of nuggets, we cleaned them from clay we got black nuggets we broke it apart we looked inside it is black. When we cleaned them with water and soap we got golden gray color broke it apart still black inside, we put them on the stovetop burner for 5 minutes they turned black and left the stovetop burner with torns and red green golden colors (you can see in the image), we put them on a spoon they turned whitish gray and left the spoon with colors ( golden- yellow- red) (you can see in the image), we crashed them we got a light gray powder, we took this powder we smelt it (direct fire assaying) with small amount of silver we got balls their colors are ( 70% silvery - 20% white - a little yellow). We did the same with 100g of soil we got balls ( you can see in the image ) and melting them together we got ( you can see in the image).

We decided to do smelting with flux using lead as collector metal, recently we did another smelting, lead is a collector metal and we added 10g silver after cupelling off we got ( you can see in the image) we did melting and we got (you can see in the image) After being cooled it turned white, we melted the alloy and pulled it like a chip it is 11g (you can see the image)

There is another group took the sample that we prepared with direct fire assaying (the one like ball) it was 6g they treated it with nitric the got 1 milligrams pure gold.

Please make a note if you edit your post after posting, so people know something has changed.
If you don't, it is considered a breach of forum rules.

 

[Fayad]

Thank you for the guidance. I will make sure to indicate any edits I make to my responses after posting them, so that people are aware of the changes. I will comply with the forum rules and respect them. Thank you again for the reminder.

 

[goldshark]

Hello all

Thank you for your replies.

Actually, we did atomic absorption analysis for a sample from 2m depth, we got Au 0.3 ppm
We did the same for a sample from 3m depth we got Au 0.4 ppm

We go deeper into 7m depth we found oxidation zone ( yellow - red - black), all of the layers ( silt - silt clay- clay ), except a thin layer of gravels in 5m depth the gravel is altered and coated with silica, jasperoid is present, although the area is an ancient rainwater delta region, the gravels are flattened and not rounded well and some of them are broken.

We took a sample from 7m depth we did panning, the golden flakes still in the bottom.

We found somethings look like nuggets but clay coated, the soil from 3m depth to 7m depth very rich of this kind of nuggets, we cleaned them from clay we got black nuggets we broke it apart we looked inside it is black. When we cleaned them with water and soap we got golden gray color broke it apart still black inside, we put them on the stovetop burner for 5 minutes they turned black and left the stovetop burner with torns and red green golden colors (you can see in the image), we put them on a spoon they turned whitish gray and left the spoon with colors ( golden- yellow- red) (you can see in the image), we crashed them we got a light gray powder, we took this powder we smelt it (direct fire assaying) with small amount of silver we got balls their colors are ( 70% silvery - 20% white - a little yellow). We did the same with 100g of soil we got balls ( you can see in the image ) and melting them together we got ( you can see in the image).

We decided to do smelting with flux using lead as collector metal, recently we did another smelting, lead is a collector metal and we added 10g silver after cupelling off we got ( you can see in the image) we did melting and we got (you can see in the image) After being cooled it turned white, we melted the alloy and pulled it like a chip it is 11g (you can see the image)

There is another group took the sample that we prepared with direct fire assaying (the one like ball) it was 6g they treated it with nitric the got 1 milligrams pure gold.

When roasting, was there any smell of sulfides? If not, you can probably skip the roasting process. I would keep digging to bedrock, as that is usually where most Gold settles out. There are a lot of geologic scenarios, so that doesn't hold true 100% 0f the time. The numbers you gave are not great. You would have to move a lot of material cheaply, as in hydraulicing. A lot of engineering may have to be done to procure water, and dispose of tailings.
For proper testing, you should run a number of cubic yards, the more you run, the more representative your results will be. Take the concentrate to a real lab.for analysis. You may have other minerals more valuable then Gold, but you never know till you have it analyzed. Then you can put the math to your values, to see if you will make, or lose money.
Without proper analysis, we can give no advice. We can help, if you give proper terms, and processes. We are of no help when you give us terms like " the yellow powder turned silvery upon heating ", or something like that.

 

[Martijn]

We found somethings look like nuggets but clay coated, the soil from 3m depth to 7m depth very rich of this kind of nuggets, we cleaned them from clay we got black nuggets we broke it apart we looked inside it is black. When we cleaned them with water and soap we got golden gray color broke it apart still black inside, we put them on the stovetop burner for 5 minutes they turned black and left the stovetop burner with torns and red green golden colors (you can see in the image), we put them on a spoon they turned whitish gray and left the spoon with colors ( golden- yellow- red) (you can see in the image), we crashed them we got a light gray powder, we took this powder we smelt it (direct fire assaying) with small amount of silver we got balls their colors are ( 70% silvery - 20% white - a little yellow). We did the same with 100g of soil we got balls ( you can see in the image ) and melting them together we got ( you can see in the image).

As far as I know gold is not black and not brittle or breakable. It sounds more like pyrite.

The balls are a sign of not properly fluxing your sample, and thus not collecting the pm's you are aiming for in the smelt.
So what kind of flux did you use and how much? Ratio in weight of different components and the sample weight.

Was there any weight difference between the added silver and the end weight?

Keep in mind that you can evaporate molten silver, resulting in a loss.

Finally, nuggets are solid metal. Metals do not break. Unless its antimony or something like that. muy guess is you have salts and minerals.

If it can even be considered an ore as said:

That is 0.3-0.4 gram per 1000Kg, I do not think that is worth processing if the sample is representative.
If cherry picked even less.

Martijn.

 

[Fayad]

Thank you..

If we supposed that the deposit is Carlin-Type Deposit, Carlin-type deposits are sediment-hosted, disseminated Au deposits in which Au typically occurs as auriferous pyrite, and we are in the alteration zone which is a central high-grade zone of carbonate dissolution and argillic alteration with micron-sized disseminated pyrite. Pervasively silicified rock, called jasperoid, is generally present within or near ore. In unsilicified rocks, many open fractures and pores are often lined with macroscopic crystals of orpiment, realgar, and calcite. In jasperoid, most fractures and vugs are lined with drusy quartz and may contain kaolinite, stibnite, barite, or calcite.
The material in the deposit is altered in a way that the carbonate minerals are either dissolved or converted to the silicates by silicate rich hydrothermal water. For example, dolomite is transformed into jasperoid. Another alteration is the formation of clay minerals by interaction of water and feldspar.

What kind of flux recipe would parting gold from its compounds?

 

[goldshark]

It will depend on wether you are trying to flux a basic (sedimentary, in limestone), or acidic (silicious) ore. It sounds like the ores are in mostly silica enhanced sedimentary, so go with this recipe for starters. Times = weight of ore;
1. 3 times by weight of soda ash
2. 1 time by weight Borax
3. 1/2 by weight of ore Litharge (Lead oxide)
4. 1.5 grams flour per above quantity Litharge
This recipe is good for crushed ores containing silica. Concentrates will require another recipe. As usual, it is best to do this in a furnace, but the cupeling will require another type of furnace. I don't know what you have for equipment, soooo... Deviation may be necessary, but this is a good starting point.

 

[minero74]

If you think your gold rock is carlin-type Ore.
Smelting Carlin-type ore is not economical.

“due to the characteristics of difficult separation and smelting of the components of Carlin-type gold ore, the processing cost is high, and the smelting slag produced will cause secondary pollution.”

Carlin-type Ore need different treatment
for extracting the microscopic gold.

Those pictures are examples of Carlin-type ore
I pick up in Nevada.

 

[Fayad]

Thank you..



The area is an alteration zone ( fain garains sands silt and clay)



We supposed first Sulfides occurred because of The volcanoes in the area originated over 6 million years ago, during the late Miocene and Pliocene epochs, and continued until 5.1 million years, after that an oxidation process happened because of water weathering or leaching because of the delta.



The rainwater delta region is not existed anymore, long time ago the rainwater water drainage was vanished because of lack of rains, we determined the rainwater delta region from the satellite images.



Ground water in the area is located about 60m depth, and it's warm water. There is a water well in the area when they had installed plastic water pipes, it melted inside.



Some rocks fragments come out with the water, some of them attracted via magnets like iron.



The area is a rainwater delta region about one kilometer far from the sea, but when we were digging we found small sea snail shells.


This is a photo of the nuggets that I mentioned above ( clay coated, it's when I broke it apart it's black from inside)



These are some samples of gravels in the area, please take a look ( the images)


is it possible to get gold out of these gravels ( it seems to be jasperoid, and carbonate with silicified alteration, oxidation, silicified mudstone)


and please tell me more about that nuggets identifying? How is the smelting process and flux?

 

[minero74]

Man Forget about the sulfides for now.

I like those gravels.
If I were You
I will starting Sluicing gravels right now.
look for the low pressure zone
that’s where the gold deposit.

I love ancient rivers
look for where the rivers ran before
placer mining is dig and dig to find to pay streak.

I don’t know if You own the land or if You have permit to dig or mining.

if You do, go and starting digging
remember big rocks big gold.

don’t crush those iron rocks,crush those sedimentary rocks perhaps You maybe can find gold inside.

i will show picture of an ancient river deposit
probably had lot of centuries old.
look at those gravels and the height is now.
it was deposit long time ago.

in the pictures of the gravels,You can notice patches of black sand.

look at the gold i get washing some of those gravels.

 

[Fayad]

Hello all

This is the result,
Panning the clay, removing iron with a magnet.

without collecting metal.

Just,
340g clay (after panning and magnetic separation)
100g borax
150g Sodium bicarbonate
30g Potassium nitrates

 

[goldshark]

A description would be nice. Did you obtain a cone mold? Sodium bicarbonate use should be a little heavier. Put the NaCo3 in an oven at about 300 F for an hour or 2, to convert to Soda ash. Produces a lot of bubbling (CO2) with the bicarb. The slag still looks a little stony. Without collector metal, you will not get a good recovery. If the clay contains a lot of Alumina, you will have to add some Fluorspar or Chrysolite to thin it. Other then that, you created a cool looking piece of slag. Looks like it might have some potential. It would be really nice if a lab would do a full spectrum analysis, to determine what elements are in there, and how much. At least double the amount of Borax and Soda ash.