Newbie/ leftovers?

[Ahmineholla]

Hello I'm terrible consumed by the treacherous,and I mean treacherous with a trex capital T. I've accual gone well beyond the well interesting as all hell aqua regua attempts, (previously experiments were home made electrolysis, acetylene tankw/oxygen of course and then to the now, the nitric and hydrochloric acids concourses. My thread however need not to use or refer to the later attempts unless suggested by one of you members, so my easiest retention of subject I thought would be rather than elaborately confuse one with my umpteen ongoing startups, I would just lend the three photos though not exactly the sequence of soecifications( each photo isn't of the acchal process therein that led to these beautiful shale Grey material that is absolutely the toughest and amazingly consistent material that after a very long nitric acid nitro fury(hour long 76% full soak at 80c) aweek of muratic/distilled and a poor attempt at smb, I literally had a overflow of amazing milky white gold yellow liter expell itself on the asphalt(ouch) after the so called godly donation (loss) I did notice earlier that the content held a liter more of ice like crystals maybe a pound of them and hidden in the crystsls which disokved I hot water, was about a one cup full, newly formed pieces(note the material was like picture 1 and then after the nitric the HCl and the week and the smb, suddenly I ended up after filtering with these nuggies, I have no way of testing these metals leftovers, but their here to stay...
My material originally is
Iron59%
Pd18%
Au18%
Ir3_6%
RH1_3%
Cu1<%
Ag<1%
?<1%
Any guess what's in these nuggies

 

[nickvc]

Instead of going with nitric first try hot hydrochloric and see if you can remove some or all of the iron .

 

[Ahmineholla]

My friend without reading into your share too much prior to goung ahead with the attempt, I'm wondering (kind of my initial problem/concern to actually begin with).... the material I have as you mentioned bears iron and very very little other undesirable metals or minerals except for a see through coating that prevents the outer ribbon from being electrically conductive (not sure if it's plastic or urethane, ect) but being that the major requirement stands as yes removing the iron, prior to the elaborate(it seems) ways to part PGM and the gold, I obviously have earned some insight that prerefining my material is a must believing that there's no reason to supposedly waste acid and mix up aqua regia to preliminarily take on the process of steps to learn to comprehensively create an essential proper equation or process that of course pans out to .999PGM and separately .999 gold.( I wish I could close my eyes and just treat the PGM as some element reasonably and happily feel successful at part A. Refinement Pgm and Part B gold. (I wish) however with complete awareness though not overbearing I hope there is Rhodium,Osmidium,Iridium.(believably more to the order of %> asPd,RH,Ir,and least Osmidium, now not to get to far ahead of my confusion, essentially understanding your feedback exposes the concern of preparing my alloy so that one could then take the accual realm of refinement(separation) with material that can sum up to purity as well as steps that lead into aqua regia and possibly the elimination of nitrates or nitric leftovers and reagents if I'm correct can single out metals accordingly. If this is so, I'm rambling probably but exciting to say the least I am and full of questions.thank you for bearing with me, this may sound stupid but if I'm soaking material in hot HCl(until fumes or action is ended) with distilledH20??? Or until the HCl has been exhausted. Then am I holding the same physical material not liquid solution per say thus if I'm on the right track then impose the AR (heated light nitric?) Until the very last ever so lasting material is showing the same fragmented pieces that always show up on the bottom but at this point its all about the liquid solution and its content ,is this similarly right? I'm respectfully interested in all experience that enables a system that I can create through experimentation and feedback .as for now I've gotten a few severally desperate positions of solutions I need to do something with,(I'll have to post separately for emergency aide. But I'm immediately willing to take a mentor student challenge and with all due interest possibly heed into following your expertise and inch by inch play gopher if you are willing to critique /guide me through a batch ,processing a potentially valuable weigh of material under your advice, succes would be priceless and a miracle to the umpteen pounds of this stuff I have. Your of course welcome to the judgement the prize and the idioms of royalty so to speak as my eyes and ears and in-between are sufficable instruments for the job. Well I better count my blessings before I start on the myriad of coffee pots I have filled with extremely potent material in way different extremities of disolved instance and color and concern.

 

[Yggdrasil]

My friend without reading into your share too much prior to goung ahead with the attempt, I'm wondering (kind of my initial problem/concern to actually begin with).... the material I have as you mentioned bears iron and very very little other undesirable metals or minerals except for a see through coating that prevents the outer ribbon from being electrically conductive (not sure if it's plastic or urethane, ect) but being that the major requirement stands as yes removing the iron, prior to the elaborate(it seems) ways to part PGM and the gold, I obviously have earned some insight that prerefining my material is a must believing that there's no reason to supposedly waste acid and mix up aqua regia to preliminarily take on the process of steps to learn to comprehensively create an essential proper equation or process that of course pans out to .999PGM and separately .999 gold.( I wish I could close my eyes and just treat the PGM as some element reasonably and happily feel successful at part A. Refinement Pgm and Part B gold. (I wish) however with complete awareness though not overbearing I hope there is Rhodium,Osmidium,Iridium.(believably more to the order of %> asPd,RH,Ir,and least Osmidium, now not to get to far ahead of my confusion, essentially understanding your feedback exposes the concern of preparing my alloy so that one could then take the accual realm of refinement(separation) with material that can sum up to purity as well as steps that lead into aqua regia and possibly the elimination of nitrates or nitric leftovers and reagents if I'm correct can single out metals accordingly. If this is so, I'm rambling probably but exciting to say the least I am and full of questions.thank you for bearing with me, this may sound stupid but if I'm soaking material in hot HCl(until fumes or action is ended) with distilledH20??? Or until the HCl has been exhausted. Then am I holding the same physical material not liquid solution per say thus if I'm on the right track then impose the AR (heated light nitric?) Until the very last ever so lasting material is showing the same fragmented pieces that always show up on the bottom but at this point its all about the liquid solution and its content ,is this similarly right? I'm respectfully interested in all experience that enables a system that I can create through experimentation and feedback .as for now I've gotten a few severally desperate positions of solutions I need to do something with,(I'll have to post separately for emergency aide. But I'm immediately willing to take a mentor student challenge and with all due interest possibly heed into following your expertise and inch by inch play gopher if you are willing to critique /guide me through a batch ,processing a potentially valuable weigh of material under your advice, succes would be priceless and a miracle to the umpteen pounds of this stuff I have. Your of course welcome to the judgement the prize and the idioms of royalty so to speak as my eyes and ears and in-between are sufficable instruments for the job. Well I better count my blessings before I start on the myriad of coffee pots I have filled with extremely potent material in way different extremities of disolved instance and color and concern.

Many words here, but very hard to get a good understanding of what you are saying

What was the origin of your material?

What Nickvc tried to say to you.
Add HCl and heat it to steaming hot.
Let it sit until it is not reacting any more.
Pour off the HCl and add fresh, repeat until no more reaction and no more color to the solution.

You should now have dissolved the Iron.

Is it tested with a XRF?
If so do it have the correct libraries?

Please reply with line brakes and paragraphs.
It will be much easier to read.

 

[Ahmineholla]

Sir,thank you. For the remarks and advice,and again thank you for answering my question in regard to which specifics on how to use the steaming HCl . So literally I'm bathing the gold and PGMs in a way with the steaming (not boiling ) HCl and can carefully retain the material that remains also more than one treatment is okay, thus I'm believing that then the material is basically ready for aqua regia, and this time the aqua regia should come out clear or somewhat clean correct?

 

[Yggdrasil]

You still struggle to make paragraphs.
But this text is smaller and that way readable

You did not answer what kind of feedstock this is.
Is it ore? Or something else all together?

Regarding AR, when all metals are dissolved or all that will dissolve at least.

You will usually have a slightly unclear solution, at least when there are silver in there. Denox by adding Sulfamic acid while the solution is hot, 70-80C.
Careful so it won’t overflow.

Cool it with ice before filtering until clear.

Then drop the Gold with SMB.

After that you can cement out the PGMs by copper slab or powder under heavy stirring.

 

[Ahmineholla]

Hello, again.
Paragraphs....I'm hoping that my threads won't be as confusing as previously, I'm currently responding to your question, what stock material do I have and what's its composition. The pics are to reveal the physical dimensions, and listed below are the percentages of metals..
59% Fe
16%Pd
16%Au
6%RH/Ir
1%>Copper
1%<Ag
1%-Osmidium
These percentages are consistent for this roll,however there are specifications that do vary per roll. The roll pictured is of this content.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I’m confused.
This seems like a roll of some kind of foil.

What has it been used for?

Are you sure the results are correct?

If it is XRF they quite often miss the correct element and substitute it with something else if the libraries are wrong.

I can’t quite see what something like this is used for.

I think the only sure way to get reliable result is a proper assay.

 

[nickvc]

Your material seems quite thin which is good , take a small sample and try the HCl treatment , it may remove all the iron but it may not the only way to find out is to try .

 

[galenrog]

I’m confused.
This seems like a roll of some kind of foil.

What has it been used for?

Are you sure the results are correct?

If it is XRF they quite often miss the correct element and substitute it with something else if the libraries are wrong.

I can’t quite see what something like this is used for.

I think the only sure way to get reliable result is a proper assay.

I concur. XRF devices are only as good as the combination of loaded library, calibration, and operator.

There are individual tests that can help a bit, but an assay is your best friend in this situation.

Time for more coffee.

 

[BlackLabel]

To me, it looks like a normal aluminium foil.
I bet, a magnet won't stick on it.

 

[Ahmineholla]

Your material seems quite thin which is good , take a small sample and try the HCl treatment , it may remove all the iron but it may not the only way to find out is to try .

Hello nickvc.
Your comment seemed positive, so I'm going to respond on that behalf, the metal spool(s) were 10 stacked in a very large sturdy frame while the electrode (3 per roll) were wired so that the electricity could be wound and steadily available the outer coating though not visible kept the electricity from arc the so called mega transistor or battery bay was a great way to build up extremely profound current and keep it at a consistent speed, exactly what it powered well, I really can't say, but lasers, and sound propulsion instruments and was intentionally used for blasting atoms with lasers I m supposedly told. Now back to the refiny stuff, please bear with me I'm really at an ugly standstill. I did start a new batch(with a half hazard supposed HCl soak, but I'm not sure I'm not doing it correctly, as soon as I pour the HCl I the coffee pot the hcl immediatly just activates like johny rocket, within in minutes the HCl gobblers the stuff and after the 80foot billow of clear white smoke performs like an Indian fire, the very affected metal and Grey residue and a goo all over the metal like surgery acid residue, I'm not sure what the professor meant by pour off excess fluid there isn't excess fluid and the pot is like frozen in time I had done this before with a very larger cloud ( am I supposed to cap it off or hell how am I supposed to heat the stuff if it immediatley reacts so violently. I.obviously I'm wasting acid but woe my horses how is this boil procedure to begin. Do I do a 60/40 distilled HCL I have heated nitric up to80c before and watched it go on for an hour of deep orange brown red smoke just go as fast as my fan would suck( inverted leaf blower at full speed ,it shut the motor down about right at the hour mark again an experimental experience one is lucky to have taken precautions however once the nitric takes off its gott to br down for the ride. I think that was also a terrible waste but never the less. Anyway nick check these examples out of aquaregia 80 distilled20 on my material.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Again.
It is hard to read.

Get an Assay.

Your description resembles dissolving
extremely reactive metals like
Mg, Al, Zn and such.
Iron and other “normal” metals do not
react like this in plain HCl
neither in plain Nitric.

They do react faster with foils, but not as violent as how you describe it.

Take a mixture of 50/50 water-HCl
and repeat with a small piece
like 10mm or so.

If it is still violent try 75/25 Water/HCl.

Observe what is left and how it looks.
Is it solid powder, gel like or gunky?

Edited due to error.

 

[olawlor]

Violent reaction to HCl and gelatinous residue afterwards argue that this metal is aluminum. Resistance to straight nitric, but attack by HCl is a characteristic of aluminum.

Is the roll fairly light, or strikingly heavy?

XRF readings can get very unpredictable with light metals like aluminum.

For material identification experiments, use a test tube with at most 10mL acid.