Newbie on the block

[smj]

Hi, I'm really fasinated with this site and the members are very helpful and very kind.
I'm a goldsmith and i do repairs, M/ups, rhodium plating etc....There comes a time where business is quiet
and i would like to spend it doing something that will keep me afloat. I'v been reading a bit of Hoke & the topics
on site, i have no practicle experience in refining but i'm eager to learn. is there anyone that can explain a simple to understand method of refining (gold,sil,pt,pd). "THE BASICS"

Thanks Sm

 

[Harold_V]

Welcome to the forum.

You say you've been reading Hoke?

If that be the case, it doesn't get any more simple. She covers pretty much anything you will encounter as a jeweler aside from dealing with silver, which she appeared to hold in contempt. You will likely see it differently, especially if you deal with dental scrap, or work with any of the platinum metals. Silver becomes the carrier, so it's important that you process the resulting silver from inquartation to effect a recovery.

Please accept this in the spirit in which it is offered. There are no "fast and easy" refining methods. There is a lot to learn, and you will learn it only be being involved. No one can talk to you long enough to give you the kind of information you seek. Read Hoke, and don't get creative. Follow her instructions exactly as she presents them (except for using gasoline for incineration. That's crazy!). As you progress, things will start making more and more sense, and you can then consider altering some methods to suit what you desire to do.

Luck!

Harold

 

[smj]

Hi Harold,

Thank you for the reply.

I know that all the information is available on the forum,
but i'm having a hard time absorbing the info by Reading it.
I'd prefer the practical approach, but i'm trying my best to process the information.

thanx,
Sm

 

[Harold_V]

Hi Harold,

Thank you for the reply.

I know that all the information is available on the forum,
but i'm having a hard time absorbing the info by Reading it.
I'd prefer the practical approach, but i'm trying my best to process the information.

thanx,
Sm

While the information is on the forum, that isn't my recommendation. Hoke's book has it all in one place, so there is little need to look elsewhere. From her book you will learn theory. From the forum, you will learn the "work arounds", and how to apply the knowledge you have gained from her book to e scrap, assuming that is your objective.

The point of reader her book should not be overlooked. I refined commercially for many years. I had no chemical background, and was a poor student in school. Still, by reading her book, I mastered the art of refining.

Unless you can find a willing body to give you hands-on tutoring, her book is likely the best possible source for you to gain the required knowledge.

One thing you need to know is that refining isn't difficult. It is not a skill that one acquires, but a discipline in which you follow instructions. If you follow instructions well (Hoke presents them very well), you can expect excellent results. Key to success is losing the notion that you can make improvements, or that you can avoid some of the steps.

If, on the other hand, you fany yourself a clever fellow, and make arbitrary decisions on what you feel must be done as opposed to what should be done, you can expect questionable results, and in some cases you may create dangerous results.

Harold

 

[smj]

Thank you, i really appreciate your advice. It will take some time to understand the whole process as i have no
experience in this trade,i have seen a few topics on the "Shor" products. it looks simple from the way they make it out to be. i was thinking of buying one of there "SubZero/Aqua-Regia Gold Refining Starter kit" for $55.Supplies include: Storm Precipitant, Precious Metal Detection Liquid, Ammonia Detection Liquid, Urea, SubZero & Instructions. After reading there version on refing it seemed much more simple or less detailed than Hoke's version. Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to make sense of it all. What is your thoughts on this. I see that they missed a few steps in their instructions, or so i think....

 

[Rhodium]

Very well put Harold.

If you want to learn refining then your not going to learn it from shor. Though technically it's refining, most of it is smoke and mirrors for the purpose of selling a product to a consumer while keeping you hostage to the process. They don't teach you what to do if something goes wrong. You must follow their instructions to a tee or else that will be the reason for your failure or problems. They don't want you to learn the real chemicals, nor do they want you to learn the science behind the chemicals and the processes. If you knew that then you wouldn't need them or their product and they would loose money.

You said you wanted to learn refining. You don't learn refining by following a guide from a for profit company. You take 3 parts A and add 2 parts B and you add 1 Part C to drop your gold. Then you melt that into a button and sell. No what did you really learn if that's all your doing. You have to understand some of the chemistry and why certain things do certain things in order to say you have actually learned something. Other wise your not learning anything your just following something else that someone has done tried and say's if you do this and this you will wind up with this.

Where's the education in that. But to make a long story short Hoke, Hoke, Hoke. You might not understand now, but one day the light will all the sudden come on.

 

[Harold_V]

Thank you, i really appreciate your advice. It will take some time to understand the whole process as i have no
experience in this trade,i have seen a few topics on the "Shor" products. it looks simple from the way they make it out to be.

Heh! Learn to play the piano in six easy lessons?

Do you really think that's going to happen?

I have no doubt that what Shor promotes works, but Rhodium's comments ring true.
I could do the same thing for you---put together a recipe for success----step one----step two, step three, etc., and provide all of the reagents, although without names, just numbers. Use reagent #2 for this operation, use reagent #5 for this operation. While you may end up with the desired goal, what do you do when something doesn't work out as you hoped?

I have been with this forum since its inception. I am the first registered reader. I struggled endlessly to have other readers understand the significance of studying Hoke. Many felt it wasn't a requirement, especially since their objective was to pursue e scrap, which she does not cover. Still, I persisted. What readers didn't understand well is that Hoke will teach readers the basics, which, once understood, can be applied to any and all substances you are inclined to encounter.

I feel it is now safe to say that the vast majority of readers understand that Hoke is the basic reference and informational source. There are other books and documents that are available, but Hoke is unique in that she teaches refining in basic terms. You need not have a chemical background, nor be familiar with any of the processes. She holds your hand and carries you through each and every step, providing enough information that you can make informed decisions. My recommendation is for you to avoid any of the magic gee whiz kits, methods and other nonsense. It's like playing the piano. There's one way you can learn to do so, and that is to adhere to accepted practice, then to apply yourself regularly.

i was thinking of buying one of there "SubZero/Aqua-Regia Gold Refining Starter kit" for $55.Supplies include: Storm Precipitant, Precious Metal Detection Liquid, Ammonia Detection Liquid, Urea, SubZero & Instructions. After reading there version on refing it seemed much more simple or less detailed than Hoke's version. Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to make sense of it all. What is your thoughts on this. I see that they missed a few steps in their instructions, or so i think....

Speaking to you as a friend, my first reaction is that you are not thinking. You are looking for the magic bullet that will take the learning curve out of refining.

There is no such bullet.

If you are interested in refining, start reading Hoke, and don't stop until everything you read makes sense. The reason I am suggesting this is because it's exactly how I came to refine. If it can work for me, it can work for anyone. I am not a great reader, having less than acceptable comprehension skills, and, at best, not a good reader, yet, with book in hand, I spent hours in my garage (then my "lab") reading and applying her excellent instructions, learning how to test, which is key to success. I then thought myself clever and did a few things she had already recommended one avoid, including attempting to part gold alloy electrolytically. In the end, I resorted to her teachings, to the letter. The only changes I ever made were in handling silver, and in my washing procedures of the final refined gold. I also incinerated without the use of gasoline (petrol).

Study Hoke, and don't get sucked in by any of the promotional kits-----which are designed to do one thing, and one thing only----which is to make the seller wealthy.

Most of all, have patience. Like learning to play a musical instrument, it won't happen in a day, or even a month. You will spend a considerable amount of time learning and gaining the required skills to enjoy the success you seek. There are no shortcuts.

The picture I posted previously of gold shot is the results you can achieve, assuming you stay the course.

Harold

 

[smj]

Thanks guys, your advice is highly appreciated. i'll have to get my act sraight and focus on the task at hand.

Thanks once again
Smj

 

[Rhodium]

Thanks guys, your advice is highly appreciated. i'll have to get my act sraight and focus on the task at hand.

Thanks once again
Smj

Your welcome. If you have a question someone will help you.