Niton XRF Alloy Analyzer

[grainsofgold]

Now that Christmas is over-

I had a demo done with the Niton XRF Alloy Analyzer.

Handheld machine and it was impressive- accurate results from what I could tell.

I would like to hear from anyone who has used one as to the pros and cons-

Would there be any interest in doing XRF scans for folks on metals and returning their samples with an excel printout of what metal percentages are present?

Thanks

Art

 

[EDI Refining]

We have an XRF handheld gun, calibrated for Base metals, not PM specific
It will read Ag,Pd,Pt but shows read Au as W
Anyways our gun can still give aprrox values, and we can provide assays for you...

PM for costs

 

[Lou]

Eh, they're not really that useful nor am I terribly impressed by them. I'd rather have a tabletop unit that gives more accuracy and more precision. And if I could pick anything, it would be an ICP, but upkeep is not cheap. Still, if you are on the move or work in a high throughput environment, I can see where a hand held unit would be advantageous for getting decent ballpark numbers.

I wish I had the software that the units runs! Making such a thing would not be difficult--the concept is simple, but the math is bothersome.


Just remember that your sample must be completely flat, clean, and have a homogeneous surface--if not, then your results will be bogus Also, this machine tends to work best on the bigger atomic nuclei (late transition metals). Let me say that I would not buy material or sell material based off of an XRF analysis. Done right, the analysis is good, and I would trust to 999(9), but often it isn't done right because the person doing it has small idea of how the unit works and the sample is improperly prepared.


Art, are you thinking of buying such a unit? For a jeweler, I would think it would be gross overkill and that your money could be better spent on other things. Nevertheless, I don't pretend to have any idea of what your plans are with it! I'd rather buy a used AA with a graphite furnace module and be able to assay much more accurately and with greater precision. Sure, not as much instant gratification, but an AA is hard to mess up!

Nice to see you back on here, I hope you're doing well. Happy New Year!


Lou

 

[patnor1011]

Hi Lou.
I was thinking about purchasing handheld Innov-X Analyzer ALFA. Can you please help me with names of some AA what you mention - their names or company name - simply what you prefer to have. Some smaller unit and I will be happy to know your recommendation for some with graphite furnace module. Thanks.

 

[koebeef]

I have one it is excellent for differentiating nickel alloy based metals (stainless sorts and hastalloy, inconels etc...0 For precious it is not that precise.

 

[Ageo308]

Well the 1 we use is roughly $60,000AUD

We have used it for hundreds of kilos of scrap and we have never had a problem.

It basically gives you enough accuracy to buy it based on what carat its showing.

Of course nothing is gonna be as accurate as an assay but when your testing 5 kgs sometimes in a space of 3 hours you cant beat it.

Plus its portable and you can show customers on the spot, top investment and its saved me twice the cost of the unit in non gold/platinum items.

We just bought another 1 and i highly recommend it

 

[jsargent]

Well the 1 we use is roughly $60,000AUD

We have used it for hundreds of kilos of scrap and we have never had a problem.

It basically gives you enough accuracy to buy it based on what carat its showing.

Of course nothing is gonna be as accurate as an assay but when your testing 5 kgs sometimes in a space of 3 hours you cant beat it.

Plus its portable and you can show customers on the spot, top investment and its saved me twice the cost of the unit in non gold/platinum items.

We just bought another 1 and i highly recommend it

A hand held XRF is on my wish list. As a prospector, it seems to be the perfect tool for very quick assay of field specimens, as opposed to sending a sample in for a traditional assay. It doesn't matter to me if a sample has 0.58 ounces per ton of gold or 0.68. What matters is knowing the semi-quantitative rough values. Truth be told, even if one sends ore samples off to the best assayers, semi-quantitative is about the best you can expect due to analytical error and inconsistencies in the samples. With these considerations, do you guys think an XRF will suit my needs? I'm damn tired of paying out hundreds of $$$ every week for ICP assays.

 

[Lou]

ICP gives you unparalleled accuracy and great precision.

As I said, this test only works if your surface is relatively consistent. Also, it only tests the surface. If there is a heavy layer of 24K gold on something and you XRF it, it will be pure gold to the machine.

It's not a magic bullet so don't rely on it overmuch.



jsargent, who does your ICP?

I just recently started offering ICP analysis, interested?


Lou

 

[Ageo308]

Well the 1 we use is roughly $60,000AUD

We have used it for hundreds of kilos of scrap and we have never had a problem.

It basically gives you enough accuracy to buy it based on what carat its showing.

Of course nothing is gonna be as accurate as an assay but when your testing 5 kgs sometimes in a space of 3 hours you cant beat it.

Plus its portable and you can show customers on the spot, top investment and its saved me twice the cost of the unit in non gold/platinum items.

We just bought another 1 and i highly recommend it

A hand held XRF is on my wish list. As a prospector, it seems to be the perfect tool for very quick assay of field specimens, as opposed to sending a sample in for a traditional assay. It doesn't matter to me if a sample has 0.58 ounces per ton of gold or 0.68. What matters is knowing the semi-quantitative rough values. Truth be told, even if one sends ore samples off to the best assayers, semi-quantitative is about the best you can expect due to analytical error and inconsistencies in the samples. With these considerations, do you guys think an XRF will suit my needs? I'm damn tired of paying out hundreds of $$$ every week for ICP assays.

The only downfall with the XRF as Lou has mentioned is with heavy items (such as bars alluvial etc..) it wont pick up whats in the middle, but for my use which is buying scrap it gives up plenty of accuracy to determine the carat.

 

[geubrina]

ONE UNIT HANDHELD XRF SPECTRO.

USD 22,000 only excluding freight.

 

[geubrina]

I want to ask, if the unit shows 0.03% - 0.09% of Iridium. How should I interprete it as a fact?

 

[DNIndustry]

Why no spend the cash on a mass spec, I believe gold is in the visible light spectrum so a cheaper unit would work.

 

[koebeef]

For testing precious metals it is not the best avenue. However, if you want to test alloys of stainless or other exotics it is great and very accurate. It comes with software and an alloy slider which helps you if the machine cannot identify a metal.

For testing, the surface of an item must be grinded with an abrasive grinding disk. I would say it is 90-95% accurate in its results.

 

[Ageo308]

For testing precious metals it is not the best avenue.

really??? based on what evidence???

My evidence and experience tells me after testing hundreds of kilo's of scrap jewellery it has served its purpose more than enough.

:roll:

 

[Lou]

I'm guessing he's basing it on experience.

Don't be so foolhardy as to assume that all units are created equal, let alone all operators of said units.


As I said, XRF in general is OK. Not great.

 

[patnor1011]

my friend is using that nitron analyzer. he usually melt sample material and make small bar. he scan that bar and know what is inside as whole thing has been melted.

 

[Ageo308]

I'm guessing he's basing it on experience.

Don't be so foolhardy as to assume that all units are created equal, let alone all operators of said units.


As I said, XRF in general is OK. Not great.

Lou we have 4 units and everyone performs as it should. Perhaps people arnt a fan of them because when scanning lemel (bars mixed with all sorts of metals) they wont show you exactly whats inside if the bar is too big.

But for jewellery its enough to buy based on that evidence before sending off to get refined.

 

[Lou]

Oh, I won't and can't argue with you. You have far more experience than I do when it comes to buying karat gold and other gold scrap.

All I was saying is that he may have a cheap unit, or one that passed QC when it ought not have, etc. Going further, he might not have the training on it that you have.

I'm a big fan of non destructive testing, but it has its limitations.

 

[Ageo308]

Oh, I won't and can't argue with you. You have far more experience than I do when it comes to buying karat gold and other gold scrap.

All I was saying is that he may have a cheap unit, or one that passed QC when it ought not have, etc. Going further, he might not have the training on it that you have.

I'm a big fan of non destructive testing, but it has its limitations.

Yep can totally agree with you, i sometimes get carried away not realising alot of people in this forum are after sublime accuracy with their refining and other hobbies. But for purchasing scrap and testing in a non destructive way as you mention i find no other fast and effective alternative to the XRF.

P.S i made a mistake before saying the XRF wont detect gold in a lemel bar which is incorrect, the difference is it will only tell you so much on the surface but if their is high or low grade PM's in the centre of say a 1kg bar then it will be difficult to determine with the xrf.

Hope this helps (based on my experience)

 

[jsargent]

Just back from a mine drill site and I had the opportunity to see a handheld XRF being used to test drill cuttings and sections of mine wall. The company was able to detect pockets and seams of high grade ore that I had missed years earlier, just because they were able to quickly scan dozens of areas and get immediate results. The lower detection limit for gold is not great... about 10ppm, but it's good enough for the context in which it's being used.
Every professional prospector should consider buying or even renting one of these incredible machines.