One mistake changed my life

[leothlyn01]

he reason I'm posting this is because I want to share my experience of basically how I almost died from doing the same s*** that you guys all do.. and for some of you are wanting or trying to do... I know amongst us there are several of you who are by the book when it comes to processes, procedures & of coarse safety *.. But I feel safe in saying that for a lot of other's here who have never been to college or took chemistry in school & have no idea of how deadly these chemicals can be...I am quite sure that a lot of our so-called labs look very similar to meth labs.. you all know who you are. LOL. I am for sure a guy who does not know all my periodic tables and run what you call a hillbilly chemistry lab.. instead of a hood I have fans set up for ventilation system & my space is cramped and there's cords going all over the place... Although my lab is hillbilly I have been pretty successful over the last 15 years... .My last lick yielded me a 22gram button but it came at a heavy price due to my sloppiness in the lab... I'm going to remind you guys that I'm a regular guy that does HVAC..Instalation & service...so I'm basically a construction worker.... not an English teacher so please bare with my poor writing skills..So after talking to who I think is one of the coolest & smartest guys on this forum.... I don't want to mention names but it starts with a K and ends with a C..I decided to share this with you guys ....so it might keep you aware and remind you of how incredibly dangerous this gold refining business really is.... It's about 3 months ago and I was in my lab & Ia doing gold plated CPU pins.. I got three...one thousand ml flasks half full of 70% nitric acid ....They were heating on an electric skillit.... the reddish brownish gas which was being created was being pushed by my ground fan up to my Gable fan and then pushed out the building... This building I constructed it's originally a carport.. now it is my sometimes auto paint booth and my sometimes chemistry lab.. So I mentioned that I had cords running every which way& that s whear my troubles began..snagging a cord with my size 15 boot brought down my powestrip that handled both of my fans...the lower fan fell over & the plastic front covering the fan blades fell off also &the reddish brown glasses instantly started to cloud up...So at this point I start to panic just a little bit not quite enough...Here Iam in my element that I have made and I have been in charge of doing the same thing I've done so many times before without a problem...So feeling confident I say to myself this is not a problem I'll simply fix it and move on. At that moment I decided to hold my breath and squint in my eyes and started rerouting the cord to the power strip, remounting the fans, fixing the front on the other fan and getting it all back online... After about 30 seconds I ran out of breath so what did I do.... I stick my head in my shirt and take a quick breath .... Just enough to finish the job... I definitely can taste and smell the nitric acid in my mouth in my nostrils instantly afterwards. But everything seemed fine, I felt fine, everything was fine..a successful yield a nice button...things are good... So about Three hours later I suddenly get a fever ..I'm freezing & it's still 95° outside...... I believe it was late August... And I live in Sacramento California it's nice and toasty around then. So this fever went from slight to overwhelming within a half hour I felt pains I've never felt before in my lungs and my back and my chest my arms my legs. This was a fever like I've never had before .. I was pretty sure had to do with the chemicals but wasn't positive yet. About 11:00 that night I finally fell asleep shivering, not sure what to do. So I wake up early next morning my pillow my whole bed is soaked my wife is freaking out and I can barely talk my throat was swollen up and I can feel another fever coming on. So we getting in the car she takes me to UC Davis medical center downtown Sacramento.. it was full of people in the emergency room but because I was having pains in my chest they took me in right away. And I explained to them what happened they put me in the toxicity unit I believe it's called and started giving me all kinds of tests MRIS ,ekgs,ultrasounds, catscans ,x-rays....I had the beginning stages of chemical pneumonia in had this edema they called it producing more nitric acid within my lungs and sinuses... And this is all from just taking one good half breath of these fumes that were being produced from nitric acid and the pins... They end up keeping me there for 4 days before they let me go and said it was very lucky that I didn't inhale more than I did... I was seriously weaked out and couldn't work for a couple weeks end up losing a couple potential jobs that I had bid on account of feeling weak. So 3 weeks later all of a sudden I get a massive fever again and this one hurt a lot more than the first one &my heart was hurting bad I was having chest pains and shortness of breath.. I started thinking maybe I had a blood clot or something in my lung .. the fever was so intense and came on so quickly that my wife called an ambulance and they came took me to the hospital.. once I was there it was determined I had full blown pneumonia not to mention massive chest pains - I thought I was having a heart attack... It took almost a week in there for the antibiotics to start working in for the pneumonia to start going away.. After extensive testing on my heart it was determined that it is at 50% and I have full-blown heart failure now. *
I've always been a very healthy guy.. 55 years old I'm 6'4 And weigh about 240 lb and I don't have any fat on me. .. I never really had any health problems but I'd tell you what I do now this one lung full of nitric acid fumes has wrecked me and set me back in many ways.. if I had to do over again I would not have taken that breath in fact I wouldn't have had a bunch of crap to trip on in my so-called lab... Bottom line is I got too confident and sloppy and lost respect or how dangerous these chemicals are how easily they can ruin your life with just one mistake... Anyways guys just throwing it out there for a reminder be smarter than me thanks for reading. Here are a few pics of what I use from what I've done thank you..
* David*

 

[Yggdrasil]

he reason I'm posting this is because I want to share my experience of basically how I almost died from doing the same s*** that you guys all do.. and for some of you are wanting or trying to do... I know amongst us there are several of you who are by the book when it comes to processes, procedures & of coarse safety *.. But I feel safe in saying that for a lot of other's here who have never been to college or took chemistry in school & have no idea of how deadly these chemicals can be...I am quite sure that a lot of our so-called labs look very similar to meth labs.. you all know who you are. LOL. I am for sure a guy who does not know all my periodic tables and run what you call a hillbilly chemistry lab.. instead of a hood I have fans set up for ventilation system & my space is cramped and there's cords going all over the place... Although my lab is hillbilly I have been pretty successful over the last 15 years... .My last lick yielded me a 22gram button but it came at a heavy price due to my sloppiness in the lab... I'm going to remind you guys that I'm a regular guy that does HVAC..Instalation & service...so I'm basically a construction worker.... not an English teacher so please bare with my poor writing skills..So after talking to who I think is one of the coolest & smartest guys on this forum.... I don't want to mention names but it starts with a K and ends with a C..I decided to share this with you guys ....so it might keep you aware and remind you of how incredibly dangerous this gold refining business really is.... It's about 3 months ago and I was in my lab & Ia doing gold plated CPU pins.. I got three...one thousand ml flasks half full of 70% nitric acid ....They were heating on an electric skillit.... the reddish brownish gas which was being created was being pushed by my ground fan up to my Gable fan and then pushed out the building... This building I constructed it's originally a carport.. now it is my sometimes auto paint booth and my sometimes chemistry lab.. So I mentioned that I had cords running every which way& that s whear my troubles began..snagging a cord with my size 15 boot brought down my powestrip that handled both of my fans...the lower fan fell over & the plastic front covering the fan blades fell off also &the reddish brown glasses instantly started to cloud up...So at this point I start to panic just a little bit not quite enough...Here Iam in my element that I have made and I have been in charge of doing the same thing I've done so many times before without a problem...So feeling confident I say to myself this is not a problem I'll simply fix it and move on. At that moment I decided to hold my breath and squint in my eyes and started rerouting the cord to the power strip, remounting the fans, fixing the front on the other fan and getting it all back online... After about 30 seconds I ran out of breath so what did I do.... I stick my head in my shirt and take a quick breath .... Just enough to finish the job... I definitely can taste and smell the nitric acid in my mouth in my nostrils instantly afterwards. But everything seemed fine, I felt fine, everything was fine..a successful yield a nice button...things are good... So about Three hours later I suddenly get a fever ..I'm freezing & it's still 95° outside...... I believe it was late August... And I live in Sacramento California it's nice and toasty around then. So this fever went from slight to overwhelming within a half hour I felt pains I've never felt before in my lungs and my back and my chest my arms my legs. This was a fever like I've never had before .. I was pretty sure had to do with the chemicals but wasn't positive yet. About 11:00 that night I finally fell asleep shivering, not sure what to do. So I wake up early next morning my pillow my whole bed is soaked my wife is freaking out and I can barely talk my throat was swollen up and I can feel another fever coming on. So we getting in the car she takes me to UC Davis medical center downtown Sacramento.. it was full of people in the emergency room but because I was having pains in my chest they took me in right away. And I explained to them what happened they put me in the toxicity unit I believe it's called and started giving me all kinds of tests MRIS ,ekgs,ultrasounds, catscans ,x-rays....I had the beginning stages of chemical pneumonia in had this edema they called it producing more nitric acid within my lungs and sinuses... And this is all from just taking one good half breath of these fumes that were being produced from nitric acid and the pins... They end up keeping me there for 4 days before they let me go and said it was very lucky that I didn't inhale more than I did... I was seriously weaked out and couldn't work for a couple weeks end up losing a couple potential jobs that I had bid on account of feeling weak. So 3 weeks later all of a sudden I get a massive fever again and this one hurt a lot more than the first one &my heart was hurting bad I was having chest pains and shortness of breath.. I started thinking maybe I had a blood clot or something in my lung .. the fever was so intense and came on so quickly that my wife called an ambulance and they came took me to the hospital.. once I was there it was determined I had full blown pneumonia not to mention massive chest pains - I thought I was having a heart attack... It took almost a week in there for the antibiotics to start working in for the pneumonia to start going away.. After extensive testing on my heart it was determined that it is at 50% and I have full-blown heart failure now. *
I've always been a very healthy guy.. 55 years old I'm 6'4 And weigh about 240 lb and I don't have any fat on me. .. I never really had any health problems but I'd tell you what I do now this one lung full of nitric acid fumes has wrecked me and set me back in many ways.. if I had to do over again I would not have taken that breath in fact I wouldn't have had a bunch of crap to trip on in my so-called lab... Bottom line is I got too confident and sloppy and lost respect or how dangerous these chemicals are how easily they can ruin your life with just one mistake... Anyways guys just throwing it out there for a reminder be smarter than me thanks for reading. Here are a few pics of what I use from what I've done thank you..
* David*

Thanks for your story.

And this is why we always stress about reading the safety section.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
Your story is a good example of how bad things may go even in a small scale.

Remember folks, no Gold is worth your life so when things go bad,
follow your safety protocols and if you don't have them,
get away to a safe zone and take the cleanup when the area is safe again.

And remember, Gold do not disappear if you do not throw it away.

 

[haveagojoe]

Thanks for sharing. Glad you are pulling through, it sounds like it could have easily been even worse. I hope you can make a full recovery in time.

 

[Shark]

Thanks for sharing that. There are many people on the forum, and other places, that need to hear this. While it can go smoothly for a long time one miss step is all it takes to ruin ones health, and possibly the health of those nearby as well. Hope your health improves, and you make a good recovery.

 

[kurtak]

Hello David & THANK YOU for posting your story

I say that because I am SURE there are MANY more stories out there just like this one we just never hear about them - I personally know of another story very much like this one - which I posted about here ---------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/safety-learned-the-hard-way.22914/

That was about 9 years ago

.So after talking to who I think is one of the coolest & smartest guys on this forum.... I don't want to mention names but it starts with a K and ends with a C

I was the one that David is referring to here - he first contacted me in a PM telling me his story & asking if I thought he should post his story on the open forum to which I told him yes he should because in as much as we often give warning about the dangers associated with refining - especially the dangers of the chemicals we work with - those warnings often go unheeded

IMO - these warnings often go unheeded because although we often tell new members about the dangers of refining & that one of the first things they should do before diving into refining is to search/read & study about the dangers/safety of refining - even telling them that doing this can result in ruining their health for the rest of their life - AND - can even result in death --- and in as much as we can tell new members they should research/read/study about safety/dangers this advice & warnings go unheeded because there are VERY FEW (next to no) real life stories about just how dangerous this can be

In other words - IMO - in as much as we can "warn" people about the dangers (including but not limited to near death &/or even death) these warning go unheeded because there are little to no real life story's out there to back up those warning --- so people (especially new members) think it can't be that bad/serious because I have watched 100 (plus) youtube videos &/or read 100 (plus) threads on this forum - I have never seen &/or heard of anyone actually having their health ruined &/or near death - so it can't really be all that bad/important

This is why I asked David to post his story here on the open forum - to provide a "real life" story of just how dangerous refining can in fact be & why our warning of the importance to research/read/study the dangers & understand the need to follow safety measures when refining

IMO - this story - along with my story should be logged into the safety section of the library so it can be easily found & linked into reply posts when we (try) to warn new member about the dangers/safety in refining

I think providing new members a (quick) link to real life stories about dangers & safety would go a long way in getting new members to take it (more) serious

Kurt

 

[Martijn]

I think providing new members a (quick) link to real life stories about dangers & safety would go a long way in getting new members to take it (more) serious

In the 'why cant i ask a simple question and get a simple answer' thread there are similar stories. Can this one be added there?
It shows even an experienced hobby refiner can underestimate the danger.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Done.

Dave

 

[kurtak]

In the 'why cant i ask a simple question and get a simple answer' thread there are similar stories. Can this one be added there?

I don't remember where to find that thread - can you link me to it

Kurt

 

[4metals]

It shows even an experienced hobby refiner can underestimate the danger.

Underestimate the danger or overestimate their frailty. I had a very close call years back with nitric fumes, and due to a few seemingly insignificant steps I was able to take I escaped with a hard learned lesson.

I got into the shop just a little late and there was a commotion going on and 4 or 5 of the guys were looking through the glass observation window into the refinery. I walked over to see the room filling up with red fumes and the connection of the reaction vessel to the scrubber was disconnected, spewing NOx upward before it settled down lower in the room as a cloud. I asked how much nitric was in the vessel and was told 15 gallons. I knew there was a lot more NOx to come and something had to be done.

I am a scuba diver and do a lot of snorkeling as well so I know I can hold my breath for over a minute. I was all set to hold my breath and go in reasoning if I can hold my breath I'll be fine. Then I thought about my eyes. Fortunately every day before work I went to a nearby pool to swim laps and I always wore swim goggles. And I had them in my gym bag with me.

I put the goggles on, did a few deep breaths and went in the room. I was able to quickly reconnect the flex tube to allow the fume to go into the scrubber. On the way out I saw another connected 4" flex line which leads to the scrubber so I threw that on the floor to suck up any fume that had dropped down. I was in and out in less than a minute and didn't inhale. (Now I sound like Bill Clinton!).

I immediately felt the acid on my exposed hands and could see it beading up on my clothes. A second fortunate thing was we had showers for the employees, mostly the sweeps workers, to shower after work and go home feeling like humans. I stripped down and jumped into the shower. My clothes were ruined but I had a change of clothes in the shop.

I noticed my exposed skin had yellowed and my palms, where I had touched things in the room were more red. When I removed my goggles after I was in the shower I realized how much my skin changed color. The circles of skin covered by the swim goggles were normal but made it obvious that the rest of my exposed skin was not. It didn't amount to anything more serious than a bad sunburn.

The guys quickly pointed out I never shut the heat on the hot plate. I didn't say what I first thought, but told them to find which breaker shuts the pilot light and kill the power.

Bottom line is I escaped unscathed because of 2 things. First the unlikely availability of swim goggles to use, and second showers available immediately to rinse off.

I am well aware of the dangers of inhaling NOx and fortunately was able to take precautions, but these dangers are often overlooked by folks that should know better too. We all need to be more aware.

 

[FrugalRefiner]

I don't remember where to find that thread - can you link me to it

Kurt

Bottom of the first page in the Safety section. Why Can't I Ask a Simple Question and get a Simple Answer?

Dave

 

[leothlyn01]

Starts with a " K" & ends with a "K"....Not a C...
Thanks for the replies guys...I am glad this can help....Good luck to you all...

 

[Yggdrasil]

Starts with a " K" & ends with a "K"....Not a C...
Thanks for the replies guys...I am glad this can help....Good luck to you all...

I wish you good luck and a fast and complete healing.
And once again thanks for sharing.

 

[goldshark]

Underestimate the danger or overestimate their frailty. I had a very close call years back with nitric fumes, and due to a few seemingly insignificant steps I was able to take I escaped with a hard learned lesson.

I got into the shop just a little late and there was a commotion going on and 4 or 5 of the guys were looking through the glass observation window into the refinery. I walked over to see the room filling up with red fumes and the connection of the reaction vessel to the scrubber was disconnected, spewing NOx upward before it settled down lower in the room as a cloud. I asked how much nitric was in the vessel and was told 15 gallons. I knew there was a lot more NOx to come and something had to be done.

I am a scuba diver and do a lot of snorkeling as well so I know I can hold my breath for over a minute. I was all set to hold my breath and go in reasoning if I can hold my breath I'll be fine. Then I thought about my eyes. Fortunately every day before work I went to a nearby pool to swim laps and I always wore swim goggles. And I had them in my gym bag with me.

I put the goggles on, did a few deep breaths and went in the room. I was able to quickly reconnect the flex tube to allow the fume to go into the scrubber. On the way out I saw another connected 4" flex line which leads to the scrubber so I threw that on the floor to suck up any fume that had dropped down. I was in and out in less than a minute and didn't inhale. (Now I sound like Bill Clinton!).

I immediately felt the acid on my exposed hands and could see it beading up on my clothes. A second fortunate thing was we had showers for the employees, mostly the sweeps workers, to shower after work and go home feeling like humans. I stripped down and jumped into the shower. My clothes were ruined but I had a change of clothes in the shop.

I noticed my exposed skin had yellowed and my palms, where I had touched things in the room were more red. When I removed my goggles after I was in the shower I realized how much my skin changed color. The circles of skin covered by the swim goggles were normal but made it obvious that the rest of my exposed skin was not. It didn't amount to anything more serious than a bad sunburn.

The guys quickly pointed out I never shut the heat on the hot plate. I didn't say what I first thought, but told them to find which breaker shuts the pilot light and kill the power.

Bottom line is I escaped unscathed because of 2 things. First the unlikely availability of swim goggles to use, and second showers available immediately to rinse off.

I am well aware of the dangers of inhaling NOx and fortunately was able to take precautions, but these dangers are often overlooked by folks that should know better too. We all need to be more aware.

With the orange tan, it always makes me wonder if Donald Trump is a poor refiner.

 

[leothlyn01]

God bless Donald Trump orange or not

 

[4metals]

With the orange tan, it always makes me wonder if Donald Trump is a poor refiner.

God bless Donald Trump orange or not

Gentlemen, we are happy to say that the refiners who share on this forum have more in common than any political party can pull apart. Please let's keep it that way. Refiners helping refiners.

 

[goldshark]

Gentlemen, we are happy to say that the refiners who share on this forum have more in common than any political party can pull apart. Please let's keep it that way. Refiners helping refiners.

What I meant to say was maybe DT got exposed to too many Nitric fumes, turning him orange in color. Maybe he needs to upgrade his fume hood.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Ok Folks.
There are two things we do not discuss here.
Politics and religion.
This one is getting to close so please get back to the topic at hand.

 

[orvi]

Underestimate the danger or overestimate their frailty. I had a very close call years back with nitric fumes, and due to a few seemingly insignificant steps I was able to take I escaped with a hard learned lesson.

I got into the shop just a little late and there was a commotion going on and 4 or 5 of the guys were looking through the glass observation window into the refinery. I walked over to see the room filling up with red fumes and the connection of the reaction vessel to the scrubber was disconnected, spewing NOx upward before it settled down lower in the room as a cloud. I asked how much nitric was in the vessel and was told 15 gallons. I knew there was a lot more NOx to come and something had to be done.

I am a scuba diver and do a lot of snorkeling as well so I know I can hold my breath for over a minute. I was all set to hold my breath and go in reasoning if I can hold my breath I'll be fine. Then I thought about my eyes. Fortunately every day before work I went to a nearby pool to swim laps and I always wore swim goggles. And I had them in my gym bag with me.

I put the goggles on, did a few deep breaths and went in the room. I was able to quickly reconnect the flex tube to allow the fume to go into the scrubber. On the way out I saw another connected 4" flex line which leads to the scrubber so I threw that on the floor to suck up any fume that had dropped down. I was in and out in less than a minute and didn't inhale. (Now I sound like Bill Clinton!).

I immediately felt the acid on my exposed hands and could see it beading up on my clothes. A second fortunate thing was we had showers for the employees, mostly the sweeps workers, to shower after work and go home feeling like humans. I stripped down and jumped into the shower. My clothes were ruined but I had a change of clothes in the shop.

I noticed my exposed skin had yellowed and my palms, where I had touched things in the room were more red. When I removed my goggles after I was in the shower I realized how much my skin changed color. The circles of skin covered by the swim goggles were normal but made it obvious that the rest of my exposed skin was not. It didn't amount to anything more serious than a bad sunburn.

The guys quickly pointed out I never shut the heat on the hot plate. I didn't say what I first thought, but told them to find which breaker shuts the pilot light and kill the power.

Bottom line is I escaped unscathed because of 2 things. First the unlikely availability of swim goggles to use, and second showers available immediately to rinse off.

I am well aware of the dangers of inhaling NOx and fortunately was able to take precautions, but these dangers are often overlooked by folks that should know better too. We all need to be more aware.

That is an intense experience. Glad you are OK.

I am also aware of orange effect of NOx-es on the skin. While back ago, I used to do a lot of chem without gloves. Too young, fake courage, overly confident, what could possibly go wrong...

And after one bigger dissolution in nitric, I experienced what can moist NOx do to the skin. Yellow, then nearly orange, then peeled after several days. Similar to nitric acid, but more colorful and itchy. Lesson learned, I feel like I needed such "hands-on experience" to prevent much more serious event - which will probably happen afterwards without some wake-up event like this My good friend and refiner wasn´t so lucky.

 

[Alondro]

All gasses given off by reacting acids are pretty awful to inhale. HCl fumes are the 'least' dangerous, but they'll still corrode your lungs!

It's why I just do all the initial reactions outside in glassware set in a plastic tub (unless it needs heating, then it's on a hot plate out in the open with nothing overhead to potentially fall on it).

 

[4metals]

then it's on a hot plate out in the open with nothing overhead to potentially fall on it).

With the possible exception of a little bird that stop to dip his beak!