Proper mixture of various precipitants

[eaglewings35]

Guys, I have been on this forum for a couple of years now, and I have probably made the same mistakes that MANY of yall have.
Most notable was my first "Crockpot Brick". I never did get that thing to break back down. It was as solid as a Brick.
Anyway, after that experience I decided to Stop wasting time and money on acids, and take my time and read-and re-read the posts on this forum, and Hokes book. I will say that, yes Hokes book was an easy read, but as far as my understanding it, not so much. I have been told that I have a "Thick skull",
and now I DO agree. All that being said......
The information contained in this forum is so much help, except for some of us you really have to help with instructions and ratios because the answers are scattered through out this site, and it takes a month of Sundays to find it all.

For instance......
I want to use SMB as a precipitant to drop my gold on the first round.

I want to use Oxalic on the second drop, to get any impurities out that may have gotten by the SMB.
But, I don't find anywhere on this forum where it is told, how much to mix with water or acid?

I have read that Oxalic does really well at purifying if used as the 2nd drop, not the first.

So if any of yall alchemist, chemistry teacher, or scientist can way in on this and post the proper mixing instructions, we lay persons would surely appreciate the help.

 

[rusty]

Use SMB sparingly, test with stannous after each addition. Dry and weigh up your precipitated gold powder to calculate the amount of oxalic acid required.

 

[yar]

When using SMB what I have read and learned is that it should be 1 gram of SMB per 1 gram of gold you have in solution. I have not mixed it in H2O prior to using and have not had any problems. Have not used Oxalic yet but plan to give it a try in the future. All this is information is right here. If I, a person that is horrible on a computer can find it, so can you.

 

[bswartzwelder]

Was going to post on SMB, but was beaten to it. It was a really quick search. It is my understanding that it takes from 1.1 to 1.2 grams of SMB for every gram of metal in your solution (not just the gold). As I recall, it take even more Oxalic acid per gram of gold to precipitate your gold. These questions have been answered before and that's why you get so many hits when you use the search function.

Sit back with your favorite snack and/or beverage and prepare to do some reading. It's all there.

Also, when using SMB, you can use it dry, or mix it with water. It seems to be a matter of preference. One thing to think about, if SMB is premixed with water, it could add a considerable amount of volume to the solution you're precipitating from. To be a respected and responsible refiner, your solutions will need to be treated before disposal. While adding a little water may not sound like much, in the end, it may need to be evaporated down, or at the least, treated to remove toxic chemicals and heavy metals. Always test solutions before discarding. Remember, at one time, they held your PM's.

 

[yar]

I use SMB dry because I expand, hope this is correct terminology, my AuCl to 3 times it volume with distilled water before dropping. So not having to add more water will mean less waste to properly dispose of later after testing with stannous.

 

[eaglewings35]

Thanks folks for the info. Yes, I have used SMB before, but NOT Oxalic Acid.
I was wanting other people to add to the list of precipitants and share how they mixed it up.
I was hoping that this would be a good place for simple people like myself to come and see the process, and decide which method they wanted to use.
But, I guess I figured wrong.

 

[yar]

I can assure you that all you need to find is here on the forum. Videos, pictures, measurements..etc. I am surprised that since you have been here since 2010 you don't know that by now. No one is going to give you what you are looking for without you showing you have done some work on your own.

There is a thread here that was posted by Harold V recentley concerning people that think they are entitled to have their questions answered without doing any work on their own. It sounds like you fall into that category and if you read the responses above you should be able to figure out how and where to find the answer to your question.

 

[Geo]

oxalic acid is cheap in my opinion (cheaper than SMB) and trying to estimate to the fraction of a gram is a waste of time. the question should be "is there way to add TOO much oxalic acid for X amount of gold" . many processes will react the same way with an excess of certain chemicals than it would with just the right amount. keeping good notes is important and some people have to have a reference every time they perform a process even if they have done it before and i understand that. i just think that unless its absolutely necessary, measuring to a fraction of a gram complicates an already complicated process.

 

[eaglewings35]

oxalic acid is cheap in my opinion (cheaper than SMB) and trying to estimate to the fraction of a gram is a waste of time. the question should be "is there way to add TOO much oxalic acid for X amount of gold" . many processes will react the same way with an excess of certain chemicals than it would with just the right amount. keeping good notes is important and some people have to have a reference every time they perform a process even if they have done it before and i understand that. i just think that unless its absolutely necessary, measuring to a fraction of a gram complicates an already complicated process.

Thanks Geo, I appreciate the KIND words. I don't like to put anyone down, but it is obvious that others were not raised that way.
Any yes, others experiences can give you a greater understanding of the process. I have had a stroke, and therefore my mind now is unable
to stay focused, especially when "searching for a needle in a haystack". The info here, and most of the people here, are really great and would lend
a helping hand, while other love to say "Search for it" The information contained in this forum is sooooo spread out, and interrupted by idle chatter
that it makes it hard sometimes to know when you are in the right place.
Please don't get me wrong, I understand that is how you get to know people, and that is the way everyone (including me) does it.
Just saying it is hard to focus when you are reading on a subject and suddenly the topic shifts to something wwwaaaaayyyy of topic.
And more times than I can count, the topic ends with the subject incomplete.

That is why I posted what I did. Because I want to know the correct way to use Oxalic Acid, before I kill my self by suffocation or blast !!!!

 

[butcher]

I have not had a stroke Yet, but the same thing happens to me, I begin looking for an answer to a question and I end up with ten other questions, and about five other things to study, many times my search leads me to all kinds of new information, and in several different directions of study, and many times I forgot what my original question was...

Some of your problem can be from not being good at using the search function (practice make you better), I know there has been a lot of discussion on using the oxalic acid / ammonia to adjust pH, I believe it was Kadriver that had a very good topic and thread on this topic, although my memory is bad it could have been another member. anyway searching for their posts can give you better details than I can.

Oxalic acid (formulas I have seen for it) COOH2 or CO(OH)2
A toxic white powder, sold as wood bleach, radiator cleaner, or rust remover, (supply one hardware store paint dept).

Usually used for high purity gold, as in a second refining.

Use about the same weight as the weight of gold, (slight excess of reagent).

Aqua regia needs de-noxxed.

In one vessel the oxalic acid dissolved in water, and ammonia added (adjust pH to about 5) no smell of ammonia, this solution is brought to a boil.

The de -noxxed and filtered gold chloride solution is also brought to just below a boil in a separate vessel.

The gold chloride solution is poured into the oxalic acid solution.

The precipitating of gold should occur fairly quickly.

The solution tested for values.

The gold washed per Harold's instructions (getting your gold pure and shiny found in the help needed section.

3COOH2 (aq) + 2HAuCl4 (aq) --> 2Au (s) + 6CO2 (g) + 8HCl (aq).

Again other members may have much better details, so searching for their answers can only help you when you do try this.


eaglewings35,
Writing your question down in a note book, and then making notes of the answers you find to your question, can help to keep track of the questions and the answers, my memory is so bad I have to keep notes on most everything.

 

[eaglewings35]

Thanks Butcher, You have been a BIG help. And No, I will not give up the searching of the forum. It sounds like you and I have pretty much the same problem memory wise, CRS disease (Cant Remember S**t)
Yes, that is the most frustrating thing as to be searching for something specific, then find the answers to something else, and by now you cant remember
what you were looking for to start with. And, I do make notes, but even in my notes I cant find things. (Never was a good note taker in school).
But, this time I am doing things differently...... When I find something that I am needing to know, I print it off and write on my paper
what it is about. Then my search resumes.

Thank you for the kind words, and help !!!

 

[yar]

Congratulations you got what you asked for without doing any work. Amazing the double standard that goes on around here sometimes. I read everyday, put in the work, follow the advice given to study, study, study and read some more. Use the search bar, as confusing as that is most times, try to avoid asking questions that have been asked hundreds of times and yet your question which is easy to find the answer to gets answered quickly.

I sit here and worry about getting taken apart for asking something stupid and waste time looking for answers, maybe if I stay on for a year or so, pretend that I have studied and read and understand Hoke then I can ask what I want.
Sorry for the rant but you have to admit anyone new reading this has got to be saying the same thing I am.

I am a grown man and take responsibility for what I write and do so if this gets me in trouble so be it, but the way the above was handled was wrong and a slap in the face to everyone else that tries to follow the way to do things here.

 

[Geo]

no one should be afraid to ask questions. this is after all a forum. most questions do get an answer, its just sometimes the answer is not what we expect. there cant be a blanket policy to not answer questions because if it were, this wouldn't be much of a forum. keep in mind that no one here is required to give answers of any kind and any answer you get to a question should be considered a gift and treated as such even if its an admonition to study on the subject. the gift of receiving an answer to a question should always be given a thank you even if its something you dont want to hear. answers are given by members of their own free will and if no one wants to answer your question, then so be it. that doesnt mean to become hardened by the experience but to try a different approach or a different angle or to phrase the question in a way that people will want to answer.

 

[yar]

To the OP...I was raised just fine thank you. It is you who feels you are entitled to something because of a physical ailment. I have an 11 year old daughter who did not walk till she was 4 and is severely handicapped to this day. She has not once used her disability to gain sympathy or favor with anyone, unlike yourself.

 

[niteliteone]

Looks like someone is having trouble understanding the difference between a worthy question and the stupid questions of a newbie.
The OP asked a worthy question that the answers would have benefited ALL who find this thread, but jealousy seems to be a problem being suffered by the detractors of this knowledge. :shock:

 

[butcher]

How many threads like this one do we have to read to find an answer?
Instead of asking so many questions.
Instead of just harping on members to study.
...
We could all be sharing information, and writing threads that can help us and others learn.

I will help anyone, even new members where I can, sometimes, the best advice I can give them is to begin by reading Hokes, other times providing a little of what I have learned and try to point them in a better direction to learn more.

This thread started out as a topic of " Proper mixture of various precipitants" I would like to see members discuss various precipitants, in this thread, so when we search for answers, and come upon this thread it will actually contain something of content and helpful information, not just another thread just full of yada yada we have to read through to find our answer, or even something meaningful...

Yar, I ask you to help us to make this thread and forum what it was intended a place to learn, and share information, can you help to discuss a precipitant for precious metals.

A few chemical or metal precipitants we could discuss:
SO2 gas and how to make it.
Copperas and how to make it.
Ammonium chloride How to make it.
Oxalic acid and how to use it.
Sodium metabisulfite.
Sulfurous acid.
Sodium bisulfite
Hydrazine
Ammonium hydroxide
Copper I chloride
Formic acid
HCl or NaCl
Sodium chlorate
Butyl diglyme
Dibutyl carbitol
Dimethyl gloxime DMG
Copper, zinc, iron, aluminum.
Any others you can think of or wish to discuss.




eaglewings35, I also expect that you will further your study on using Oxalic acid, and other precipitants, Taking notes, and doing the best you can, I know the more you work the better you will recover from the stroke.

 

[pgms4me]

Looks like someone is having trouble understanding the difference between a worthy question and the stupid questions of a newbie.
The OP asked a worthy question that the answers would have benefited ALL who find this thread, but jealousy seems to be a problem being suffered by the detractors of this knowledge. :shock:

Thanks Butcher for taking the time to post on this query, your simplified list on using oxalic acid is straightforward and helpful. a couple of things you mentioned confirmed what i needed to know. I Couldnt find the answers before when I looked, and it wasn't on my urgency to do list, so I had it in my notes to complete the search at a future time. Now I am all set. Thanks also to the OP for your question.

 

[butcher]

How we can make sodium metabisulfite

we can generate SO2 gas (sulfur dioxide gas), well if we done this we would probably just use it to precipitate our gold and forget the SMB :lol:



sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5 can be made by bubbling SO2 gas into a solution of sodium bisulfite Na2SO3, while evaporating solution.

 

[moose7802]

I am new to this forum as well as the whole gold refining process and I have to say that i agree with yar though I'm not upset that the OP got the answer to your question. I am afraid to ask any question on here, thankfully I saw one of Geo's videos on youtube before I joined this forum and he answered a few of my questions on there. Since joining this forum i have spent 90% of my time reading on here. The one thing I do not understand is why I can type in the search bar "how to precipitate gold" and get nothing yet read on here that theres 558 posts on it. Why is this? I will post a picture of my first button from a few small batches of 100 grams of trimmed fingers, 50 grams of cpu pins, 26 MMX black fibers, 5 ceramic pentiums, and 6 AMD k6's. So far everything has gone well, I do feel as though I have probably lost a little bit in my filtering process. I have a lot of filters with multiple types of trash filtered out and some with fine gold flakes. I will definitely read up more on what to do with all of my filters before trying to process them!! Thanks for all the great info on here.its been a huge help. I have a nice little batch of powder i am collecting to wash once Im done with all of my First ever processes. A special thanks to Geo for taking the time to answer my questions! Cant wait to post the picture of my first button!!!

 

[niteliteone]

How we can make sodium metabisulfite

we can generate SO2 gas (sulfur dioxide gas), well if we done this we would probably just use it to precipitate our gold and forget the SMB :lol:



sodium metabisulfite Na2S2O5 can be made by bubbling SO2 gas into a solution of sodium bisulfite Na2SO3, while evaporating solution.

If I made SO2 gas I wouldn't waste it making SMB, I would bubble it through my Auric Chloride directly to precipitate my gold. 8)