Any way of knowing what kind of rare earth your magnets are? The oxide color on my "neodymium" makes me think it's actually terbium, and given price of the metal when these drives were made would make some sense. I have atleast a kilo of it and it would be a nice surprise.
Rare earths.
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macfixer01
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I think the magnets are generally an alloy, not a single metal? For example, don’t the neodymium magnets also contain boron and iron?
Also typically plated with a corrosion resistant metal, such as nickel.
Darkthirty
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I've got a pile of DC motors to breakdown and scrap that have permanent magnets, but not much copper. Unsure of whether they're alnico, ferrite, or rare earths. If anyone knows how to differentiate between them I'd appreciate any input.
I go by strength.
Ferrite - I think of refrigerator magnets and old horseshoe magnets from when I was a kid back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth
Alnico - Considerably stronger than ferrite
Rare Earth - They will hurt you - don't get a little fold of skin between 2 of them.
Dave
Ferrite - I think of refrigerator magnets and old horseshoe magnets from when I was a kid back when dinosaurs roamed the Earth
Alnico - Considerably stronger than ferrite
Rare Earth - They will hurt you - don't get a little fold of skin between 2 of them.
Dave
They are definetly rare earth, their strenght tends to amaze me a lot, and when some break up the oxide layer on top is like the color of the terbium oxide here Current Rare Earth Element and Technology Metals Prices. I processed about 50 hdd's from IBM, they are real quality server grade not garbage we get sold, each of them have about 20 times the magnet size of normal hdds. Yes they should be an alloy covered in a very thin layer of nickel to avoid oxidation.
Terbium was around 500$ when the SCSI were made, it went up to 4000 now down to 2k, given even nowadays, while outdated they still cost a bunch to buy. The quality inside is delightful, the pcb boards on bottom even have golden oscillators and a BGA with gold corner each.
Another thing would be finding where to sell this, google sorts of found me an answer but it a bit odd.
They also have 4 thick platters inside and i believe there is quite a bit more of platinum than in normal platters, i can tell this by playing with the platters against a magnet, it really slows them down.
Terbium was around 500$ when the SCSI were made, it went up to 4000 now down to 2k, given even nowadays, while outdated they still cost a bunch to buy. The quality inside is delightful, the pcb boards on bottom even have golden oscillators and a BGA with gold corner each.
Another thing would be finding where to sell this, google sorts of found me an answer but it a bit odd.
They also have 4 thick platters inside and i believe there is quite a bit more of platinum than in normal platters, i can tell this by playing with the platters against a magnet, it really slows them down.
macfixer01
Well-known member
Seems extremely doubtful that they’re terbium? I’ve never heard or read mention before of terbium magnets, and the only commonly encountered rare earth magnets seem to be samarium-cobalt or neodymium? According to Google above 221° K, terbium becomes paramagnetic (Repels Magnets). That 221° K is about Negative 62° Fahrenheit or Negative 52° Celsius (-62°F / -52°C). Last but not least it’s flammable in dust form, and must be fairly reactive since (similar to magnesium and other alkali metals), it can react with water to release hydrogen.
macfixer01
Well-known member
Btw, can you post some photos of those drives? They sound interesting.
Thanks
Thanks
I will edit this post with a picture of the oxide on the broken magnets, Yes it feels similar to magnesium, when they break they sparkle a bunch.
I haven't heard of terbium magnets either. I have none of the drives whole, as they were meant to be destroyed. I can however get a picture from google.
Would be nice if it was terbium, wasn't happy to destroy them given they so much better than ssd garbage.
https://www.allhdd.com/ibm-46m7030-hard-drive/
I could however post pictures of the covers, platters and pcb's.
Btw that bga chip i imagined was on older scsi not these, they still have a decent bunch of stuff.
Now that you say it, i might take a bit and see how it reacts with water.
Edit: In two minutes I spent along with it i haven't seen any bubbles but the ones that came when i dropped it in the water, i'll sit with it for a while.
Edit2: No reaction with the water, but took better pics.
Edit3: I first upload of the drive was from 2013 while mine where end of 2008 and 2009. This one looks more like it.
Edit4: One hour and no bubbling, ambient temp is around 25ºc i guess and the bit i tossed is small, i will get some hot water. Thanks for the advice.
After adding the hot water i'm thinking this is praseodymium, still not making sense for me, upon reacting with air becomes red like terbium, yet in the warm water is getting darker . I guess color left by end of the day will clarify this.
I haven't heard of terbium magnets either. I have none of the drives whole, as they were meant to be destroyed. I can however get a picture from google.
Would be nice if it was terbium, wasn't happy to destroy them given they so much better than ssd garbage.
https://www.allhdd.com/ibm-46m7030-hard-drive/
I could however post pictures of the covers, platters and pcb's.
Btw that bga chip i imagined was on older scsi not these, they still have a decent bunch of stuff.
Now that you say it, i might take a bit and see how it reacts with water.
Edit: In two minutes I spent along with it i haven't seen any bubbles but the ones that came when i dropped it in the water, i'll sit with it for a while.
Edit2: No reaction with the water, but took better pics.
Edit3: I first upload of the drive was from 2013 while mine where end of 2008 and 2009. This one looks more like it.
Edit4: One hour and no bubbling, ambient temp is around 25ºc i guess and the bit i tossed is small, i will get some hot water. Thanks for the advice.
After adding the hot water i'm thinking this is praseodymium, still not making sense for me, upon reacting with air becomes red like terbium, yet in the warm water is getting darker . I guess color left by end of the day will clarify this.
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macfixer01
Well-known member
I didn’t save the MSDS that I Googled, but you can look it up. Or here was a screen shot I did that had some excerpts. It was phrased kind of strangely though, under fire conditions. They might’ve meant that when it’s hot, or is already burning, that water can cause it to produce hydrogen?
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Would make sense, i seen both neo and praseodymium react with water to produce hydrogen. I might take a picture and update it here once sunlight comes up, it got a bunch of odd red, iron looking oxide yesterday. But iron doesn't oxidize that fast.
macfixer01
Well-known member
Can you find someplace near you to get it tested by an XRF gun? Such as a scrap dealer, coin shop, large jeweler, or pawn shop possibly? Even if you had to pay them a few euros to do you a favor, it would be worth it and give you instant results.
Sciencemadness Discussion Board - The trouble with neodymium... - Powered by XMB 1.9.11 This is a long thread, if I get rid of iron it should be enough for my purpose in any case, I read somewhere between thread 8 to 15.
I think path I want to take is dissolving the broken magnets in HCL, after it is dissolved filter for any nickel foils that are left, add ice cold h2o2 to the ice cold fe-nd chloride. Then get the oxalate. Not sure how would this work with any other RE in there.
Not all magnets are quite the same inside, some have a darker grey, some have a silvery grey.
Haven't searched much tbh.
I think path I want to take is dissolving the broken magnets in HCL, after it is dissolved filter for any nickel foils that are left, add ice cold h2o2 to the ice cold fe-nd chloride. Then get the oxalate. Not sure how would this work with any other RE in there.
Not all magnets are quite the same inside, some have a darker grey, some have a silvery grey.
Haven't searched much tbh.
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alright so i took a few magnets and tossed them into hcl, the reaction is exothermic, it smells sorts of like kid guns that boom and smell but that is about it. The gas that it producing is highly flamable, i'm certain it hydrogen, it cannot set itself on fire right? unless i let it dry out ofc.
Can't find the pdf that told me how to refine this.
Edit: I have hammered the magnets out, only the "magnet" and the nickel foils that cover them, now i have copper cementing on the thing, i only used hcl i'm confused. I guess i can blame it on the heat?
Can't find the pdf that told me how to refine this.
Edit: I have hammered the magnets out, only the "magnet" and the nickel foils that cover them, now i have copper cementing on the thing, i only used hcl i'm confused. I guess i can blame it on the heat?
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SeRKaN PGM HuNTeR
Well-known member
Hello, refinery community,
There is a scientific phenomenon called "paramagnetism" in the context of magnets. Even if it doesn't exhibit strong attraction, it involves interaction with metals, especially those from the platinum group metals (PGM). What's more, as the temperature drops, not just for PGM but for other metals in the periodic table, they also exhibit interaction with magnets, but there's more to it! These are mind-boggling topics, in my opinion. Today, everyone is reading about the behavior of metals in terms of pressure, temperature, and cold. All of these factors are interconnected and complex. I wonder if anyone is thinking about designing a magnetic system in regions close to mantles for the purpose of detecting noble metals. It may sound a bit utopian, but I still have plenty of questions in my mind.
Regards
There is a scientific phenomenon called "paramagnetism" in the context of magnets. Even if it doesn't exhibit strong attraction, it involves interaction with metals, especially those from the platinum group metals (PGM). What's more, as the temperature drops, not just for PGM but for other metals in the periodic table, they also exhibit interaction with magnets, but there's more to it! These are mind-boggling topics, in my opinion. Today, everyone is reading about the behavior of metals in terms of pressure, temperature, and cold. All of these factors are interconnected and complex. I wonder if anyone is thinking about designing a magnetic system in regions close to mantles for the purpose of detecting noble metals. It may sound a bit utopian, but I still have plenty of questions in my mind.
Regards
Seems that by oxidizing iron from +2 to +3 with h2o2 you can keep most of it in solution, and maybe even higher REE recovery to only after drop with oxalic. This is done with hcl or seemingly sulfuric.
I'm doing the hcl way this way any nickel shouldn't dissolve, however some copper did show up cementing, i think the nickel the magnet is plated with is also mu. Note the undissolved should be filtered to achieve this before adding the h2o2.
I read, most of these articles:
Recovery of Rare Earth Elements from the Leaching Solutions of Spent NdFeB Permanent Magnets by Selective Precipitation of Rare Earth Oxalates
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pGVeOIAd4vbVQxvEBNmS5O4HqKDbyOQuymO_tI8O9NY
The actual process is actually so simple, the few steps to get from magnet to magnet oxalate/oxide is.
1- separate the magnets by heat.
2- let them hit between themselves so they break apart a bit, in my experience there's no need to do much dust.
3- Dissolve in hcl, filter.
3- Oxidize with h2o2 (optional but great)
4- Add oxalic acid, filter.
Separating any other REE from the Nd might be a bit more complicating but getting rid of iron and boron so easily is nice.
On a downside, most HDD's have really small magnets so you want SCSI if you wanna get any appreciable amount bulk.
I'm doing the hcl way this way any nickel shouldn't dissolve, however some copper did show up cementing, i think the nickel the magnet is plated with is also mu. Note the undissolved should be filtered to achieve this before adding the h2o2.
I read, most of these articles:
Recovery of Rare Earth Elements from the Leaching Solutions of Spent NdFeB Permanent Magnets by Selective Precipitation of Rare Earth Oxalates
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pGVeOIAd4vbVQxvEBNmS5O4HqKDbyOQuymO_tI8O9NY
The actual process is actually so simple, the few steps to get from magnet to magnet oxalate/oxide is.
1- separate the magnets by heat.
2- let them hit between themselves so they break apart a bit, in my experience there's no need to do much dust.
3- Dissolve in hcl, filter.
3- Oxidize with h2o2 (optional but great)
4- Add oxalic acid, filter.
Separating any other REE from the Nd might be a bit more complicating but getting rid of iron and boron so easily is nice.
On a downside, most HDD's have really small magnets so you want SCSI if you wanna get any appreciable amount bulk.
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Alright, so I have the bulk of magnet soup in a 8l container, but I made a mistake, I poured some hcl on some things to see if i can rid of base metal, after like 48h i seen no color change and nothing more than few bubbles so i took for granted I can reuse the acid.
So I poured out what was left of magnet soup and added that very acid I thought unreacted, along with some fresh hcl. Thing is that next time I look there everything is a purplish grey thing, i poured it on a different container, second hcl addition isn't much better but idk if i can add this to main container or what to do with it, i don't even know what i had dissolve.
Also magnets should be consumed by now given prior dissolutions but it's still reacting, i just checked and i cannot believe it.
What I tried to dissolve is some high end antena connectors, which seemed stainless with a fairly thick gold bath. These paid very well by the kilo
Otherwise most the magnet soup is fine in the first container waiting for h2o2 and precipitation with oxalic.
I keept a small amount of magnets to do the whole chain of reactions and upload to YT.
Edit: Alright i poured over the solution into second container to not mix them, magnets are fully dissolved and the nickel plating is untouched. I'm having a feeling this could be filtered, but feels it goes in and out of the solution as it wishes.
So I poured out what was left of magnet soup and added that very acid I thought unreacted, along with some fresh hcl. Thing is that next time I look there everything is a purplish grey thing, i poured it on a different container, second hcl addition isn't much better but idk if i can add this to main container or what to do with it, i don't even know what i had dissolve.
Also magnets should be consumed by now given prior dissolutions but it's still reacting, i just checked and i cannot believe it.
What I tried to dissolve is some high end antena connectors, which seemed stainless with a fairly thick gold bath. These paid very well by the kilo
Otherwise most the magnet soup is fine in the first container waiting for h2o2 and precipitation with oxalic.
I keept a small amount of magnets to do the whole chain of reactions and upload to YT.
Edit: Alright i poured over the solution into second container to not mix them, magnets are fully dissolved and the nickel plating is untouched. I'm having a feeling this could be filtered, but feels it goes in and out of the solution as it wishes.
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