Strong AP

[Jmk88]

Hello All,

Having been reading... I have a query that has likely been addressed but I can’t find a specific answer to my question.

I understand that by using a strong peroxide, such as 35%, a storing enough oxidiser is created to dissolve pms.

If I was to use this with HCL, would it be possible to dissolve karat scrap entirely then drop only the gold out using copper?

I understand that smb would not work there and would drop the base metals too.

Any answers are highly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[butcher]

Jmk88,

HCl will not dissolve gold by itself, but if we generate chlorine gas in solution it will oxidize dissolving the gold.
The H2O2 can generate chlorine in solution, providing the oxidizing nature of the solution.
Chlorine gas will not stay in solution very well, and the warmer the solution the less chlorine it can hold.

This HCl/H2O2 solution will dissolve gold, but only if it is finely divided, as a fine powder, thin plating. small thin flattened small buttons (shot).

HCl/H2O2 solution will not work well to dissolve thick pieces of gold, like karat gold, unless you make it into a powder (which would be what we would normally do with karat gold (by in-quartering the gold, making a shot, parting with silver nitric acid)...

Copper is normally not much of a problem with karat jewelry.
But the silver content can be a problem.
Solders with tin are a problem (tin is a thief when it comes to gold in solutions)

In karat gold, the silver content will not let you dissolve the gold, the gold content will not let you dissolve silver, we use a trick called in-quartering to get the silver content Higher by adding silver (this lowers the gold portion of the mix) to get the silver content up to 75% so we can dissolve the silver from the golds resistants to the nitric acid...

Got Hoke's Book? (some call it the bible of the forum), Most of what we do is explained in her book which is easy to read and understand the simple principles and problems in refining.

Edit for correction of my error

 

[Jmk88]

Thank you Butcher.

Yea I have been reading Hoke for a while now. Her information is great but I don’t think I’m anywhere near experienced enough to apply a lot of it. Plus I am trying to avoid using nitric; hence the thought.

At present I am refining only gold filled material but would like to move up to genuine karat scrap.

I think once I am comfortable with what I am doing now I may look to use AR.

However I would need licences for this which wouldn’t be an issue. Once I feel I’m successful at the filled bits I’ll think about that step.

Thanks again Butcher. So thorough!

 

[Jmk88]

Also Butcher....

I definitely think there should be more warnings to people about....

How damn addictive this is. It’s like science crack! If I’m not doing, I’m reading, if neither of them I’m thinking about it...

Not a good time to discover such a passion when embarking on final vocational qualifications in a completely separate field!

 

[UncleBenBen]

Also Butcher....

I definitely think there should be more warnings to people about....

How damn addictive this is. It’s like science crack! If I’m not doing, I’m reading, if neither of them I’m thinking about it...

Not a good time to discover such a passion when embarking on final vocational qualifications in a completely separate field!

Hahaha!! :lol:
Ok, here's a fair warning story for you. Be very careful of your new addiction. I lost a great job of 16+ years and I can at least indirectly (or maybe even directly!) blame the time I spent studying refining over those last 2 or 3 years instead of actually working for losing that job.

It's all worked out for the best though. It finally pushed my wife to make a nursing career move we both had contemplated for years. We had both become miserable in our employment. Now she has rocketed into management and making almost as much income as what we had been making combined. I work for myself now and then there's the extra money from selling a bit of gold here and there.

So yeah, fair warning. Refining can ruin your life, and then make it so much happier. Thanks GRF!!!

 

[Jmk88]

Haha... I think it’s too late for me.

Although I do need to knuckle down for my other studies.

But thanks for the heads up! If I’m able to lose my job and replace it with such a practice I won’t be too miserable.

Thanks Ben!

 

[butcher]

I edited my post above.
I have problems saying things backward.
we get the gold 25% and silver content 75%.



in the post above I wrote it wrong:


butcher wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:48 am
In karat gold, the silver content will not let you dissolve the gold, the gold content will not let you dissolve silver, we use a trick called in-quartering to get the silver content Higher by adding silver (this lowers the gold portion of the mix) to get the silver content up to 25% so we can dissolve the silver from the golds resistants to the nitric acid...

(Thank You, Dave, for proofreading and showing me my error)

 

[Jmk88]

Thanks again Butcher.

I am going to try a one kilo batch of 18k gold filled jewellery using poor mans AR. I see it as a step in the right direction.

I am going to use the 8oz of nitrate and 900ml of hcl with water.

I’m so looking forward to it. I’m going to photo log from start to finish. It will be my first ever aqua Regia attempt.

 

[butcher]

How is it 18 Karat gold, if it is gold fill?
Gold fill indicates the gold content is much less than 75% of the total metal involved is gold.
Gold fill is not karat gold, it is an outer coating of gold on a base metal core (the outer gold shell may not be pure and could be a percentage of gold and base metal (or 18K gold shell)...

Spend a little time looking into how others have been working their gold fill scrap.
Tin involved in the gold fill can be troublesome.

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=16335&hilit=gold+fill

Be careful, gain an understanding of the dangers involved, and an understanding of how to deal with the toxic waste generated during the process (you do not want a toxic dump where you live).

Have fun, but be safe.

 

[Jmk88]

Apologies; yes I meant 18k gold filled. Over here in the U.K. our regs as I’m sure you know are a bit different.

I buy gold filled scrap which is hallmarked. I aim for 18k rg. I use filled and rolled interchangeable, again, apologies if that’s not right.

1000%. I love nature more than I love gold. The first think I did was understand safe disposal as if I couldn’t achieve that, I would not proceed at all. My profession is civil engineering which integrates sustainable construction.

I design a lot of green roof and living walls for large construction companies.

Thank you for the link.

As I say I’ll photo log and potentially annoy with my questions!!

I also realised streetips is here!! I love that guy. Legend.

 

[butcher]

Here are a few links I found about gold fill using the forum search function, I have not read them lately so I am unsure if they will answer any questions but they should be helpful in finding many answers.

https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=gold+fill
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=3750&p=39664&hilit=gold+fill#p39664
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=12165
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=11945&p=120088&hilit=gold+fill#p120088

 

[Jmk88]

Thanks Butcher.

I’ve just found a post by Harold as well that’s extremely helpful. As he always is.

I don’t believe the rolled bits I buy have silver content; I have never once found any silver from my AP batches. They tend to be marked over here if bonded to silver.

I believe the lead and tin will certainly be present, which in ap I have found has enough time to dissolve.

My issue with ap is time. Nothing else. I will read the posts. It’s very rare I read any posts here and don’t learn something new.

Kindest Regards,

 

[butcher]

The above links were from the forum search, where I used gold fill as the keyword used, I should have used the proper terms like GF or Gold Filled.

Forum Search gold-filled:
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/search.php?keywords=gold-filled

Hopefully, you will find it helpful

 

[Jmk88]

Thanks Butcher.