sulfuric acid from copper sulfate

[thegreek1]

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on creating sulfuric acid. I used the electrolysis method from scrap science to create a batch of h2so4 and it took a few hours to have the distilled water change from blue to clear liquid. I did a ph test on the solution and it turned blood red. Now I put a few small pieces of aluminum foil inside a plastic container and poured some of the acid onto it. It's been 4hours now and nothing has melted nor do I see a chemical reaction.
Did I need to put the postive aligator clips onto the lead of copper wire?
Also was using upwards of 12v of power too much?
is there another way to test the solution for purity?

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Welcome to the forum. I'm afraid you've posted bits and pieces of information here, so it's really hard to give you much advice.

I was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on creating sulfuric acid. I used the electrolysis method from scrap science to create a batch of h2so4 and it took a few hours to have the distilled water change from blue to clear liquid.

I don't know who "scrap science" is, and I'm not going to go searching for some video? If you're going to tell us you followed a particular method, you should either give us a link to the method you followed, or fully describe what you did. Otherwise, we really have no idea what you've done.

I did a ph test on the solution and it turned blood red.

What pH test? Was it litmus paper? Was it pH test paper? What does a blood red color mean?

Now I put a few small pieces of aluminum foil inside a plastic container and poured some of the acid onto it. It's been 4hours now and nothing has melted nor do I see a chemical reaction.

You probably mean nothing has dissolved, not that nothing has melted. We apply heat to melt things, converting them from solids to liquids. When we put things into acids, we hope to dissolve them.

Did I need to put the postive aligator clips onto the lead of copper wire?

No idea. Again, we don't know what you were doing.

Also was using upwards of 12v of power too much?

Same comment.

is there another way to test the solution for purity?

For purity of what.

I know it sounds like I'm being a jerk, but I'm trying to make a point to help you. Unless you give us a lot more information, we really don't know what you've done.

Dave

 

[thegreek1]

Hello Dave and no you are not being a jerk as you are trying to be straight up...

scrap science is a youtube channel () who's recipe I was following. I took 1400ml of distilled water and poured in 90 grams of copper sulfate into the water stirring it to ensure most of the copper sulfate has been dissolved into the water. I put the positive power supply from my DC unit to the lead pipe and the negative to the copper wire. I ran the voltage been 5 to 12v with the amperage at about 4.4amps. It took almost 10hrs to complete the process and turn the blue water into clear liquid.

I was trying to figure out what was the purity of the liquid to see if the concentration was going to be around 95% as a few people on YT claim it to be.
I had purchased some Vevor distillation kit which had a packet of PH universal indicator paper which I assumed it was to test the PH levels between acidic and alkaline. The paper chagned color from a golden color to a deep red color almost the same as blood. I though this was a good sign that the process was completed, but on another youtube channel I saw someone use sulfuric acid without heating it and the aluminum bit inside the test tube started reacting. I was under the impression that no heat would be required at this point to which I was wrong.

so now back to the questions> when i was trying to create the concentrated sulfuric acid, what voltage should I have been using for the electrolysis process?
is there another way to test the purity of the solution?
the alligator clips from my dc power supply, should the positive (red wire) alligator clips go to the lead pipe or the copper wire?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello Dave and no you are not being a jerk as you are trying to be straight up...

scrap science is a youtube channel () who's recipe I was following. I took 1400ml of distilled water and poured in 90 grams of copper sulfate into the water stirring it to ensure most of the copper sulfate has been dissolved into the water. I put the positive power supply from my DC unit to the lead pipe and the negative to the copper wire. I ran the voltage been 5 to 12v with the amperage at about 4.4amps. It took almost 10hrs to complete the process and turn the blue water into clear liquid.

I was trying to figure out what was the purity of the liquid to see if the concentration was going to be around 95% as a few people on YT claim it to be.
I had purchased some Vevor distillation kit which had a packet of PH universal indicator paper which I assumed it was to test the PH levels between acidic and alkaline. The paper chagned color from a golden color to a deep red color almost the same as blood. I though this was a good sign that the process was completed, but on another youtube channel I saw someone use sulfuric acid without heating it and the aluminum bit inside the test tube started reacting. I was under the impression that no heat would be required at this point to which I was wrong.

so now back to the questions> when i was trying to create the concentrated sulfuric acid, what voltage should I have been using for the electrolysis process?
is there another way to test the purity of the solution?
the alligator clips from my dc power supply, should the positive (red wire) alligator clips go to the lead pipe or the copper wire?

It has nothing with voltage to do.
You have a certain amount of Copper Sulfate and a certain amount of water when you apply a voltage you strip the Copper from solution leaving the Sulfate to hydrolyzed to Sulfuric acid.
90 grams of Sulfate in 1.4 liters of water will be very dilute.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello Dave and no you are not being a jerk as you are trying to be straight up...

scrap science is a youtube channel () who's recipe I was following. I took 1400ml of distilled water and poured in 90 grams of copper sulfate into the water stirring it to ensure most of the copper sulfate has been dissolved into the water. I put the positive power supply from my DC unit to the lead pipe and the negative to the copper wire. I ran the voltage been 5 to 12v with the amperage at about 4.4amps. It took almost 10hrs to complete the process and turn the blue water into clear liquid.

I was trying to figure out what was the purity of the liquid to see if the concentration was going to be around 95% as a few people on YT claim it to be.
I had purchased some Vevor distillation kit which had a packet of PH universal indicator paper which I assumed it was to test the PH levels between acidic and alkaline. The paper chagned color from a golden color to a deep red color almost the same as blood. I though this was a good sign that the process was completed, but on another youtube channel I saw someone use sulfuric acid without heating it and the aluminum bit inside the test tube started reacting. I was under the impression that no heat would be required at this point to which I was wrong.

so now back to the questions> when i was trying to create the concentrated sulfuric acid, what voltage should I have been using for the electrolysis process?
is there another way to test the purity of the solution?
the alligator clips from my dc power supply, should the positive (red wire) alligator clips go to the lead pipe or the copper wire?

Here are something for you to study:

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=19798
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/safety.47/
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/dealing-with-waste.10539/

Suggested reading:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/forums/the-library.101/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/when-in-doubt-cement-it-out.30236/
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threa...le-read-this-before-you-post-about-ore.33333/


Forum rules is here.
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[FrugalRefiner]

thegreek, that's a much better job of providing the background to your trial.

I'm afraid I'm too old to spend 15 minutes watching the video, but I assume others will, and they will offer their opinions.

I will make one quick observation. What you're describing as "purity", is actually "concentration". You can have very concentrated acid, that is also quite impure, meaning it has a lot of contaminants in it. You can also have very pure acid that is not very concentrated, meaning there are very few contaminants in it.

Achieving very concentrated sulfuric acid will require evaporating nearly all the water out of the acid you create through electrolysis. That becomes a very dangerous process itself.

I'm not saying it can't be done. It can.

I hope others will spend the time reviewing the process and comment here.

Dave

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hello Dave and no you are not being a jerk as you are trying to be straight up...

scrap science is a youtube channel () who's recipe I was following. I took 1400ml of distilled water and poured in 90 grams of copper sulfate into the water stirring it to ensure most of the copper sulfate has been dissolved into the water. I put the positive power supply from my DC unit to the lead pipe and the negative to the copper wire. I ran the voltage been 5 to 12v with the amperage at about 4.4amps. It took almost 10hrs to complete the process and turn the blue water into clear liquid.

I was trying to figure out what was the purity of the liquid to see if the concentration was going to be around 95% as a few people on YT claim it to be.
I had purchased some Vevor distillation kit which had a packet of PH universal indicator paper which I assumed it was to test the PH levels between acidic and alkaline. The paper chagned color from a golden color to a deep red color almost the same as blood. I though this was a good sign that the process was completed, but on another youtube channel I saw someone use sulfuric acid without heating it and the aluminum bit inside the test tube started reacting. I was under the impression that no heat would be required at this point to which I was wrong.

so now back to the questions> when i was trying to create the concentrated sulfuric acid, what voltage should I have been using for the electrolysis process?
is there another way to test the purity of the solution?
the alligator clips from my dc power supply, should the positive (red wire) alligator clips go to the lead pipe or the copper wire?

Here is s short description:
Copper Sulfate: CuSO₄ has a molar weight of 159.609 grams. so you have around half a mole 0.57 of Copper Sulfate. (90/159 = 0.57)
Water: H₂O has a molar weight of 18.015 grams which means you have 77 moles of water

Sulfuric Acid H₂SO₄ has a molar weight of 98.079 grams,
which means you have about 44 grams of acid in 1400 grams of water (98*0.57 =44) so weight percentage will be around 3%

 

[Noggin]

Sulfuric acid doesn't easily evaporate. I've concentrated sulfuric acid in a distillation flask with a heating mantle. When you realize what you're doing, it's pretty terrifying when handling the glassware. Not recommended.
But outside and away from anything that the acid can affect when it does give off vapors, you might be able to concentrate it by simply drying it in the sun.
How do I know this?
Two years ago I had some mixed solutions as I was experimenting with using sulfuric acid to clean and recycle nitric acid. My wife was diagnosed with cancer and needed surgery and the refining shop could have burned down for all I cared. I left my fume hood on and had no ability to return to it till last month. Everything evaporated to dryness in there except a beaker and Erlenmeyer flask containing sulfuric acid and some metal salts.

Consider starting with a very small amount (e.g. 10 ml?) and try evaporating. Much safer (but slower) than active heating. You'll need to cover it to keep out insects but let it breathe. I'm not very sure what to use, and it might not matter if the sulfuric doesn't vaporize. I would try it with and without painting the container black. I would only use glass for the container.

Of course, you're a smart guy and you'll keep it away from pets, kids, and structures.
I'm mentioning it so the mods don't flame me.

 

[thegreek1]

thanks noggin, and yes the idea is to be cautious at all time and keeping everyone including myself safe at all times. The last thing I need is to be headline news in the newspapers and having that followed up with a Darwin award. I would like to know more about how you managed to boil the water out the acid. how long did it take, what temperature did you use, etc.

 

[Alondro]

Sulfuric acid doesn't easily evaporate. I've concentrated sulfuric acid in a distillation flask with a heating mantle. When you realize what you're doing, it's pretty terrifying when handling the glassware. Not recommended.
But outside and away from anything that the acid can affect when it does give off vapors, you might be able to concentrate it by simply drying it in the sun.
How do I know this?
Two years ago I had some mixed solutions as I was experimenting with using sulfuric acid to clean and recycle nitric acid. My wife was diagnosed with cancer and needed surgery and the refining shop could have burned down for all I cared. I left my fume hood on and had no ability to return to it till last month. Everything evaporated to dryness in there except a beaker and Erlenmeyer flask containing sulfuric acid and some metal salts.

Consider starting with a very small amount (e.g. 10 ml?) and try evaporating. Much safer (but slower) than active heating. You'll need to cover it to keep out insects but let it breathe. I'm not very sure what to use, and it might not matter if the sulfuric doesn't vaporize. I would try it with and without painting the container black. I would only use glass for the container.

Of course, you're a smart guy and you'll keep it away from pets, kids, and structures.
I'm mentioning it so the mods don't flame me.

The metal salts in there were likely hygroscopic as well. Many of them will yank water out from the air and NEVER will dry unless heated to the hundreds of degrees.

 

[GoIdman]

Hi, first off, what do you want to do with the acid?

If you want to create HNO3 with sulfuric acid, you are in for the long haul and safety will be your biggest enemy, then money the second enemy, and time the third.

If you can buy car battery electrolite, you already bypassed time since that has 35-37% concentration, and you can boil it off to concentrate even more, allthough i do not reccomend this, it is a way to obtain the sulfuric easier.

Also if you buy SO2 solution that is used in vine manufacturing, adding H2O2 to it will also result in sulfuric, still not recommended since it is exotermic reaction, but you can create dillute sulfuric, which can be concentrated.

These are a few ways to obtain sulfuric that work, allthough i do not recommend it without proper training and safety equipment, since you can scarr yourself for your entire life or worse, you could die.

Some things are just not worth chasing after.

Be safe

Pete

 

[Noggin]

thanks noggin, and yes the idea is to be cautious at all time and keeping everyone including myself safe at all times. The last thing I need is to be headline news in the newspapers and having that followed up with a Darwin award. I would like to know more about how you managed to boil the water out the acid. how long did it take, what temperature did you use, etc.

I followed the instructions of Nurd Rage (see Youtube Video here ).
I recovered the nitric and water from waste solutions. They can't have HCL in them otherwise that gets carried over into your distillate.
I filtered the waste, added sulfuric acid, and set it up for distillation. As you distill, the nitric and water go over but you keep the heat well below the vapor point of the sulfuric acid. As the concentration of nitric decreases, you form metal sulfates out of the nitrates. It's really neat and I was able to use the diluted nitric afterwards. I didn't attempt to concentrate it, just re-used it but you can if you want. You can also use electrolysis to recover the copper if you want. I have about 15 pounds of sterling (not much to many on this forum) but I'm considering doing this when I process all that metal.

At these temperatures, sulfuric acid eats through everything. As you get to the end the acid bubbles thickly (you'll know what I mean if you do it) and violently. It wants to kill you. Have fun!

 

[Noggin]

The metal salts in there were likely hygroscopic as well. Many of them will yank water out from the air and NEVER will dry unless heated to the hundreds of degrees.

Possibly. The salts are sitting on the bottom, covered by the blue-tinged sulfuric acid.. I think I have some silver in there so I'm holding onto it till I can devote some time to it.