Where to find input?

[MadScientist89]

I can't seem to find worthy input. There's so very much scamming that I've had to weed through. This industry is rife with some of the worst scamming attempts I've ever seen. That and then ebay has things marked up beyond their gold value and somehow they're still selling! I've bought 20kg of pinless cpus for $200 USD to experiment with and nail down the process. I'm pretty sure I won't be making any profit on that. Got some overpriced simcards at 40 bucks for a half pound. More proof of concept. Now that's done I need affordable input. Tia

 

[Yggdrasil]

I can't seem to find worthy input. There's so very much scamming that I've had to weed through. This industry is rife with some of the worst scamming attempts I've ever seen. That and then ebay has things marked up beyond their gold value and somehow they're still selling! I've bought 20kg of pinless cpus for $200 USD to experiment with and nail down the process. I'm pretty sure I won't be making any profit on that. Got some overpriced simcards at 40 bucks for a half pound. More proof of concept. Now that's done I need affordable input. Tia

Welcome to us.

If you are using wet chemistry we will prefer you to read these links.

We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste

Suggested reading: The Library

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/

 

[4metals]

Sad but true, between the profit the seller on eBay wants to make and the eBay costs I cannot imagine it leaves room for you to profit.
Those dumpster divers need to make a living too!
Often finding feedstock is a difficult challenge.

 

[andu]

You'd get better deals at your scrapyard.

 

[MadScientist89]

My thanks for the info Ygg.Okay so I have a lab and a forge, how can I make money with these things?

 

[Yggdrasil]

My thanks for the info Ygg.Okay so I have a lab and a forge, how can I make money with these things?

Well that is the question that rides most of us like nightmares.
Principally it is easy, find something cheap and then process it so you can sell it for more than your cost + then some.
In practical terms it is THE problem for most of us.
Scrap yards, yard sales and such are typical places.

 

[MadScientist89]

Can you be a little more specific? I have easy and regular access to junkyards to pull parts from cars. Is the copper in an alternator worth going over? Can I go to a metal yard and buy scrap to process into? I can get a busted car for 500, is there enough PM in the cat? Is there a place I can legally buy catalytic converters for processing?

 

[Golddigger76]

I'm not sure about the laws in Colorado but if you purchase a junk car on the cheap, pull the converters, solenoids out of the fuse panel, the computer, 02 sensors, mass air flow sensor, and possibly other components, then haul it to the scrap yard to resale.
You probably won't really make a great profit but you will have a little bit of material that contain precious metals to practice on.

It's possible to leach out some PGM's from converters but it is not going to get all of platinum group metals in the matrix .

There's tons of material out there that will be handed over to you for free, maybe post on Facebook to pick up old electronics for recycling.

The reality is that you are not going to start making money until you have a very good grasp of the chemical reactions that need to take place to recover and refine precious metals efficiently, then you will need to find a reliable source of material to refine.

Before you start trying to get platinum, palladium, or rhodium out of the catalytic converters please do research on the exact procedure and safety to protect yourself from the salts, they will easily get inside your body and your body has no way of getting rid of them.
Platinum group metal salts with poison you and kill you if it gets a high enough level and as far as I know there's not a cure.

 

[MadScientist89]

That was incredibly helpful thank you. I am also able to buy minor industrial equipment as needed to make pipe or ingots or something cut with dies and a press if anyone has ideas. I'm contacting a local e-waste company monday to plead with them to provide me scrap. Otherwise there's a local guy who I found on ebay who has feedstock but I have no idea if I can compete with the overinflated e-waste scrap prices.

 

[Golddigger76]

That was incredibly helpful thank you. I am also able to buy minor industrial equipment as needed to make pipe or ingots or something cut with dies and a press if anyone has ideas

A lot industrial equipment is high voltage and will have high voltage contact on the switches or starters, even heaters in some of the starters these will usually be made of silver, silver alloys.

Some machines will have circuit boards or gold plated pins.

The large magnetic starters and automatic transfer switches are some of my favorite sources of silver.
Some of the older ones especially if they are 480v or 600v will have silver contacts that are around 3/4 of an ounce each.

 

[MadScientist89]

What about something more simple; like selling copper anode strips on ebay? Or some sort of consumable copper product. I meant industrial equipment to produce a good to sell, not as in available scrap.

 

[Golddigger76]

I see lol,
There's plenty of things that you could test the water with.
If you are interested in selling copper products there is plenty of hobby refiners on this forum that have a hard time sourcing copper bars to cement silver, gold and pgms.
Copper powder is another thing that is useful for cementing palladium and platinum from leaching catalytic converters.
As far as being able to make a profit and be able to compete with suppliers is not something that I can decide for you but those are just a few consumables that are in demand for us that refine but there's plenty of items that you will learn are in demand for refining precious metals.

 

[MadScientist89]

I see lol,
There's plenty of things that you could test the water with.
If you are interested in selling copper products there is plenty of hobby refiners on this forum that have a hard time sourcing copper bars to cement silver, gold and pgms.
Copper powder is another thing that is useful for cementing palladium and platinum from leaching catalytic converters.
As far as being able to make a profit and be able to compete with suppliers is not something that I can decide for you but those are just a few consumables that are in demand for us that refine but there's plenty of items that you will learn are in demand for refining precious metals.

Let me get some directive on that. I'm happy to melt copper into shot for anyone who needs it, at a reasonable price. I can work and shape most metals except SS and Iron.

Can I make any chemicals, non-gold related to sell for profit? Stannous Chloride or something? Thanks for all the advice thus far, grateful.

 

[SpencerC]

I can't seem to find worthy input. There's so very much scamming that I've had to weed through. This industry is rife with some of the worst scamming attempts I've ever seen. That and then ebay has things marked up beyond their gold value and somehow they're still selling! I've bought 20kg of pinless cpus for $200 USD to experiment with and nail down the process. I'm pretty sure I won't be making any profit on that. Got some overpriced simcards at 40 bucks for a half pound. More proof of concept. Now that's done I need affordable input. Tia

Best not to sit at your keyboard trying to buy such items, as many others have already said head to your local scrap dealer but be warned these guys know their stuff, so often it might be better to talk terms on recovery as a potential partner and combine your skill set.

 

[MadScientist89]

Best not to sit at your keyboard trying to buy such items, as many others have already said head to your local scrap dealer but be warned these guys know their stuff, so often it might be better to talk terms on recovery as a potential partner and combine your skill set.

Messaged a guy on ebay selling scrap at a modest price, hes local to me so I'm gonna meet him for pickup soon on an item and we'll talk bidness. Gotta put your trust in a stranger to report yields inaccurately, big ask for the supplier especially when feedstock is going for more than the price of its gold.

 

[GoIdman]

I can't seem to find worthy input. There's so very much scamming that I've had to weed through. This industry is rife with some of the worst scamming attempts I've ever seen. That and then ebay has things marked up beyond their gold value and somehow they're still selling! I've bought 20kg of pinless cpus for $200 USD to experiment with and nail down the process. I'm pretty sure I won't be making any profit on that. Got some overpriced simcards at 40 bucks for a half pound. More proof of concept. Now that's done I need affordable input. Tia

I buy my stuff from scrapyard workers, they have been instructed what to search for and how much they will get from me if they gather that stuf (RAM, CPU`s, Extension cards etc). Each item has its own price and I pay per piece. (0.1 USD per pinless and small pins big heatsing processors, mostly for the copper value, gold is the extra profit)
It works for me and I get quality material (even stuff i never saw before, rarities) every time for a few years now.
It took me also quite some time to build this partnership network, but it works.

Also every week there is a big flea market where i buy cutlery for silver (calculated that the plated stuff must never exceed the pricetag of 0.35USD/gr to worth the effort of recovery and making profit by staying under spot) , i also accept (for free, with me handling the shipping ) old TV`s and other electronic stuff (microwaves, washing machines etc) from people who don`t know what to do with it (its a very good and constant source of copper for the long run). Other materials also go to the scrapyard but not worth mentioning the money for it (plastics, iron, and so on).
Sometimes its a lot of work but for example you can collect 100-200 kg of copper in no time (1-4 month, if its a bad month) which has a scrap value of 1400-1700 USD which is enough to reinvest in quality stuff and materials. I do have at this point 200kg of mixed copper, and i want to hit 1 ton (whenever that will be, since i have little time to invest in this right now. I do sell my copper separated and as is.
You could go in your neighberhood and leave business cards and talking with people, that you are collecting used or broken stuff from their houses if they no longer need it (never buy that stuff), they can call you and you`ll pick it up for free from them (so they don`t have to take it themselves to the scrapyard), belive me your phone will ring, A LOT. The key is that you have to pick up everything (from blenders to old TV`s to washing machines and more, so they keep on calling you for everything).
If you just collect and resell the stuff you can also make some money out of it. Remember, there are others like you that would buy that stuff for cheap, if you`ll get it for free and sell it for money you already made a PROFIT

There is no free cookie, you have to work for every penny you earn even if you have your material for free, the question is if you make your homework with the calculations and targets before you make any purchase whether it is worth your time and effort or not.

For example if you buy RAM fingers from eBay for 200USD / lb (which can contain between 0,8-2 g Au/lb) with the use of acids and labware and lighthing and heating and YOUR TIME (sorry for caps) versus the purchasing of a 3g Au without any other major involvment, you`ll get the idea that not everything is worth chasing after.

Always have your calculations ready, and focus on 1,2,3 items and search for those and those only, everything else will be extra profit IF you can get it for free.

I always recalculate my prices every 3 months, i give the corrected prices to my guys (sometimes less and sometimes more, but always fare with them,)

There is no universal recipe for this, but you can get close enough to reality if you do your calculations and set a clear target to yourself then respect that target (purchase price mostly)

I hope this helps,

Pete

 

[kurtak]

The large magnetic starters and automatic transfer switches are some of my favorite sources of silver.
Some of the older ones especially if they are 480v or 600v will have silver contacts that are around 3/4 of an ounce each.

Per the bold print --- I LOVE those BIG magnetic starters/disconnects - I used to buy them from scrapyards for around 25 cents a pound (a pickup truck load at a time)

Some of them had contact points/pads that were right at 1 ozt per point/pad X 12 points/pad per disconnect = 12 ozt silver per disconnect

Made money selling just the copper & iron back to the scrapyard so the silver was all profit (2 of the scrapyard actually even bought my silver at spot plus $1)

I had a real nice set up for de-soldering the points from the copper bus bars which you can read about here ------

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/milling-silver-contacts-off.21173/#post-218315
Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Per the bold print --- I LOVE those BIG magnetic starters/disconnects - I used to buy them from scrapyards for around 25 cents a pound (a pickup truck load at a time)

To better explain the above -first of all I want to say that scrapyards are a great source of materials - BUT - you have to build a working relationship with them - that means taking scrap - of all kinds - into them - by the pick up truck (&/or trailer) load to sell to them - as a regular customer (every week or two) --- when they see you are a "serious" scrapper you start talking to them about how you also process/recover/refine PMs & that is when you can start talking to them about buying from them

You need to build that relationship (selling) because most scrapyard are not interested in selling to the public - they buy from the public in order to fill their simi trucks for shipping to the really big boys

When they see you are a serious scrapper (you like to tear stuff apart) you become someone that can "add value" to the low grade stuff they take in from the public because it needs to be tore down to up grade the values of the individual metal like iron, aluminum, copper, etc. - &/or sent off to the really big boys for shredding

So - for example - something like a magnetic disconnect - they buy that from the public as copper breakage & say they buy it (from the public) for 15 cents a pound - they then send it to a big boy shredder for 20 cents a pound - so you offer them 5 cents a pound more then the shredder pays (or 25 cents a pound) & as well you tell them you are going to bring the (up graded) iron/aluminum/copper back to them

They make money & you make money because it has now become a two-way business relationship instead of a one way relationship --- you bring them in a load of "up graded" scrap & then leave with a load of scrap that needs to be up graded

I have bought entire "simi truck" loads of whole computers from scrapyard - which they buy as tin (sheet iron) which I would buy on the same deal = 5 cent more per pound then they get sending it to a shedder - I then tear down the computers - keep the circuit boards & sell the tin (sheet iron) aluminum & copper back to the scrap yard --- they make money & I make money

It's a relationship you build - & you have to work at it

Kurt

 

[orvi]

To better explain the above -first of all I want to say that scrapyards are a great source of materials - BUT - you have to build a working relationship with them - that means taking scrap - of all kinds - into them - by the pick up truck (&/or trailer) load to sell to them - as a regular customer (every week or two) --- when they see you are a "serious" scrapper you start talking to them about how you also process/recover/refine PMs & that is when you can start talking to them about buying from them

You need to build that relationship (selling) because most scrapyard are not interested in selling to the public - they buy from the public in order to fill their simi trucks for shipping to the really big boys

When they see you are a serious scrapper (you like to tear stuff apart) you become someone that can "add value" to the low grade stuff they take in from the public because it needs to be tore down to up grade the values of the individual metal like iron, aluminum, copper, etc. - &/or sent off to the really big boys for shredding

So - for example - something like a magnetic disconnect - they buy that from the public as copper breakage & say they buy it (from the public) for 15 cents a pound - they then send it to a big boy shredder for 20 cents a pound - so you offer them 5 cents a pound more then the shredder pays (or 25 cents a pound) & as well you tell them you are going to bring the (up graded) iron/aluminum/copper back to them

They make money & you make money because it has now become a two-way business relationship instead of a one way relationship --- you bring them in a load of "up graded" scrap & then leave with a load of scrap that needs to be up graded

I have bought entire "simi truck" loads of whole computers from scrapyard - which they buy as tin (sheet iron) which I would buy on the same deal = 5 cent more per pound then they get sending it to a shedder - I then tear down the computers - keep the circuit boards & sell the tin (sheet iron) aluminum & copper back to the scrap yard --- they make money & I make money

It's a relationship you build - & you have to work at it

Kurt

Yup, am with you on this. Relationship is necessary thing to get you into scrapyard world.
There are thousands of guys lurking around the junkyard all the time, offering no added value to their business. Every day, people complaining about scrap buyout prices, people trying to scam the guys in the scrapyard (filling copper tubing with dirt and similar stunts) and so on... You need to stand out of that queue, offer added value to the owners and make good impression from the start.

I don´t know how the "junkyard/scrapyard culture" works in the US, but here where I live, these are the places where you mostly encounter... how to say it politely... Folks from the bottom income line of our society, who collect scrap to buy cheap booze or drugs. These are regulars, bringing stuff all day long for pennies/few bucks at a time. All kinds of stuff. Then, there are small business owners and contractors, who aren´t regulars, but bring in bigger hauls of stuff. And then there are strangers, who came just to get rid off some junk from the renovation of home, and they will never see them again.

Most of the good stuff regularly flow from the first mentioned class. All kinds of stuff, whole appliances, waste from factory bins, many times even stolen stuff. Occasionally, there is good stuff from small businesses, and when it is, it usually came up in bigger lots (like full gaylord of old breakers and switches after renovation of the building, 50 tower PCs + servers after office refurbishment etc.).

And then, there is you From the start, another guy who lurk around and piss of the owners just by sole existence First impression counts, second, third, they kinda start to know you... Then, you came right after the lunch break, when not that much customers arrive, smalltalk, say what you do and what you can offer, reselling the metals to them, not competition... Light a cigarette with the "manager", bring in another load of nicely separated scrap.
Ask if they have any e-scrap bin to go through... Pick some stuff, say how much you are willing to pay for it... Cash the guy...

And slowly and steadily building trust and relation. Then, it will take the traction. You can be very surprised how quickly it can spiral out of your control, and suddently you will be drowning in scrap

 

[andu]

500 is too much, given prices here, and ofc, depending on the car, usually 300 is on the line... A car has on average around 20kg of copper, iron aside, some alu, and idk about rest of electronics and stuff. Keep in mind some pieces will always give more as 2nd hand replacements.

I'd go after catalyzers alone, but PGM is a nasty thing so not sure i'd start with that.

Furnace might make viable recovery of gold and metal from ICs and such and ingots tend to sell for more than value of metal itself, specially if you polish and make them look nice.