Shifting to pyrometallurgy process

[Muratthechemist]

As i know, oxidizing agents are oxidize yes but it is not the maining can oxydize everything like tin.
We know lead can oxydize because of cupelation process and experiences.
I tried some example for many times. Lead evaporate as %2 percent (from 2.5 percent in total).
But tin stays same input level. (from 2% it goes 2.1 because of lead evaporation affects total amount)

You need to be very careful and sure before making it.
My suggestion at that point is after you found good sources, then make it reverse engineering.

Also lead and tin has some similar characteristics.
You should check mettallurgical infos such as 911 metallurgist website or books.

BEFORE EVERYTHING, i explained at begining, IF there is tin. Maybe your process of burning PCB's will not keep tin ?
If you sure you have tin in your copper source than you can effort searching and consuming your time.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

As i know, oxidizing agents are oxidize yes but it is not the maining can oxydize everything like tin.
We know lead can oxydize because of cupelation process and experiences.
I tried some example for many times. Lead evaporate as %2 percent (from 2.5 percent in total).
But tin stays same input level. (from 2% it goes 2.1 because of lead evaporation affects total amount)

You need to be very careful and sure before making it.
My suggestion at that point is after you found good sources, then make it reverse engineering.

Also lead and tin has some similar characteristics.
You should check mettallurgical infos such as 911 metallurgist website or books.

BEFORE EVERYTHING, i explained at begining, IF there is tin. Maybe your process of burning PCB's will not keep tin ?
If you sure you have tin in your copper source than you can effort searching and consuming your time.

I make a lot of search,I didn't find any information about tin in copper anode alloy, till now I just read posts from forum members that tin will make issues in the copper cell but none explain how and till now I didn't find any information about how we can get rid of tin without using liquid chemicals.

In smelting thread, none mention that we have to get rid of tin before smelting, kindly if you have any information about what exactly tin do in copper cell and how we can get rid of tin using fluxes,post information here.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

I watched a video on MBMMLLC channel discussing about adding sulphur in small amount to e-waste while smelting, does anyone have any idea about what exactly sulphur will make?

Another question, I wonder if I can use lead paste from acid batteries as a source of lead oxide since litharge is not available in my country.

 

[Yggdrasil]

I watched a video on MBMMLLC channel discussing about adding sulphur in small amount to e-waste while smelting, does anyone have any idea about what exactly sulphur will make?

Another question, I wonder if I can use lead paste from acid batteries as a source of lead oxide since litharge is not available in my country.

So you want to cupel?
I have no idea what Sulphur would do with e-waste. It is clean metal, glass and a bit of Carbon.
Maybe it makes Iron report to the slag?

Edit for spelling.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

So you want to cupel?
I have no idea what Sulphur would do with e-waste. It is clean metal, glass and a bit of Carbon.
Maybe ut makes Iron report to the slag?

This is the link



He mentioned that sulphur could sulphadize iron,zinc,tin and lead which they are more reactive than copper, but I didn't found any documents talk about that.

 

[Yggdrasil]

This is the link



He mentioned that sulphur could sulphadize iron,zinc,tin and lead which they are more reactive than copper, but I didn't found any documents talk about that.

Litharge(Lead Oxide) is used to create Lead as a collector metal.
Since you plan to smelt E-Waste the Copper inside should be sufficient.
And it will not need Cupelling after.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

Litharge(Lead Oxide) is used to create Lead as a collector metal.
Since you plan to smelt E-Waste the Copper inside should be sufficient.
And it will not need Cupelling after.

I want to use lead for smelting IC chips, using copper electrolysis process take long time,I will use it with only PCB, so my plan is to use lead only with ic chips so I can get some cash quickly and buy new material

 

[Yggdrasil]

I want to use lead for smelting IC chips, using copper electrolysis process take long time,I will use it with only PCB, so my plan is to use lead only with ic chips so I can get some cash quickly and buy new material

I am not sure how well the Iron parts of the ICs will do in the cupel after smelting.
Proper Fluxing and good separation is important.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

I am not sure how well the Iron parts of the ICs will do in the cupel after smelting.
Proper Fluxing and good separation is important.

I think I have to make tens of tests till have the proper recipe for a specific lot, and this recipe will be changed upon changing materials.

 

[Darkthirty]

I watched a video on MBMMLLC channel discussing about adding sulphur in small amount to e-waste while smelting, does anyone have any idea about what exactly sulphur will make?

Another question, I wonder if I can use lead paste from acid batteries as a source of lead oxide since litharge is not available in my country.

The plates in a vehicle lead/acid battery are PbO or Pb3O4.Pastes. There are many formulas for the pastes, which are later converted into active material, and each is considered a trade secret by the manufacturer using it. The basis of all, however, is oxide of lead, either Red Lead (Pb304), Litharge (PbO), or a mixture of the two, made into a paste with a liquid, such as dilute sulphuric acid. The object of mixing the oxides with the liquid is to form a paste of the proper consistency for application to the grids, and at the same time introduce the proper amount of binding, or setting agent which will give porosity, and which will bind together the active material, especially in the positive plate. Red lead usually predominates in the positive paste, and litharge in the negative, as this combination requires the least energy in forming the oxides to active material.

 

[Joseph Pramudito]

I make a lot of search,I didn't find any information about tin in copper anode alloy, till now I just read posts from forum members that tin will make issues in the copper cell but none explain how and till now I didn't find any information about how we can get rid of tin without using liquid chemicals.

In smelting thread, none mention that we have to get rid of tin before smelting, kindly if you have any information about what exactly tin do in copper cell and how we can get rid of tin using fluxes,post information here.

What tin do in copper cell, it forms oxide in the slime that degrade the electrolyte. Further to this, tin oxide in contact with H2O will create meta stannic goo.

You can read further the paper in the link below, instead of flux, they use coagulant to extract tin oxide/meta stannic from electrolyte. This procedure extracts any other slime substances trapped in that meta stannic goo as well.
You can find the link in this:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/metastannic-acid-discovery.30365/post-364294
Some further info at link provided in this:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/metastannic-acid-discovery.30365/post-317884

 

[Ayham Hafez]

The plates in a vehicle lead/acid battery are PbO or Pb3O4.Pastes. There are many formulas for the pastes, which are later converted into active material, and each is considered a trade secret by the manufacturer using it. The basis of all, however, is oxide of lead, either Red Lead (Pb304), Litharge (PbO), or a mixture of the two, made into a paste with a liquid, such as dilute sulphuric acid. The object of mixing the oxides with the liquid is to form a paste of the proper consistency for application to the grids, and at the same time introduce the proper amount of binding, or setting agent which will give porosity, and which will bind together the active material, especially in the positive plate. Red lead usually predominates in the positive paste, and litharge in the negative, as this combination requires the least energy in forming the oxides to active material.

Thats true, I worked in lead smelting for many years, at the end the lead paste contains lead oxide, so I think we can use it instead of litharge even if it contains Pb3O4

 

[Ayham Hafez]

I have a new design for a furnace that has no crucible, it will be built with 70% alumina refractory bricks and can be poured manually as the video or using a small hole at the bottom of it, its already tested with aluminum and copper but the vendor don't know if traces of iron and nickel in the E-waste materials could effect it.

I liked its design since we can easily skim of slags and can melt the copper anode directly from it after skimming slags,also it has no crucible and I think aluminum refractory bricks more resistant for acids and basics than graphite crucible.

Your comments are highly appreciated.

 

[Golddigger76]

This type of furnace may work great for you, I am not sure but for any of the members watching this video please note that it is absolutely not acceptable to be doing anything with molten metals without proper protection.

The first thing that stands out to me is this guy is wearing tennis shoes and zero eye or face protection while pouring ingots.

He is wearing leather gloves but otherwise an accident waiting to happen.

One slip or trip and he will be ruined for life, and no matter how careful you are it will happen eventually, please don't be this guy !!!!

 

[goldshark]

I have a new design for a furnace that has no crucible, it will be built with 70% alumina refractory bricks and can be poured manually as the video or using a small hole at the bottom of it, its already tested with aluminum and copper but the vendor don't know if traces of iron and nickel in the E-waste materials could effect it.

I liked its design since we can easily skim of slags and can melt the copper anode directly from it after skimming slags,also it has no crucible and I think aluminum refractory bricks more resistant for acids and basics than graphite crucible.

Your comments are highly appreciated.

I am pretty sure that is Aluminum they are pouring. The furnace is good for Tin, Lead, Aluminum, and other low melting point metals. I don't think I would use it for PMs, or Copper. You need a crucible with the associated insulation, to attain temperatures high enough for Copper. A blast furnace would work, but is very wasteful on energy. I am pretty sure the furnace in the video has a crucible, you can't see it due to the surrounding fire bricks. A refractory lid for the video furnace, would help keep the heat in, and still allow for skimming once up to temperature.

 

[Darkthirty]

This type of furnace may work great for you, I am not sure but for any of the members watching this video please note that it is absolutely not acceptable to be doing anything with molten metals without proper protection.

The first thing that stands out to me is this guy is wearing tennis shoes and zero eye or face protection while pouring ingots.

He is wearing leather gloves but otherwise an accident waiting to happen.

One slip or trip and he will be ruined for life, and no matter how careful you are it will happen eventually, please don't be this guy !!!!

He also needs gaiters, any spit or slash will funnel onto his feet. Aluminum isn't too frisky when it hits the floor, but any molten metal is no joke

 

[Ayham Hafez]

I am pretty sure that is Aluminum they are pouring. The furnace is good for Tin, Lead, Aluminum, and other low melting point metals. I don't think I would use it for PMs, or Copper. You need a crucible with the associated insulation, to attain temperatures high enough for Copper. A blast furnace would work, but is very wasteful on energy. I am pretty sure the furnace in the video has a crucible, you can't see it due to the surrounding fire bricks. A refractory lid for the video furnace, would help keep the heat in, and still allow for skimming once up to temperature.

There is no crucible, only refractory bricks similar to rotary furnace design, I thought about making a lid to make sure I will reach to copper melting point and save energy, lid could be covered from inside with only ceramic fiber so it will be easily carried by two mens when want to skim of slag or pour copper shots or anode

This design will also serve the pyrolisys process and will be more convenient with incineration after pyrolisys since we have more surface area than normal vertical crucible,also it will help to easy mix fluxes with incinerated and milled material

That's all just thoughts, I'm sharing it to get some ideas before start building the furnace, now am thinking about the best place to insert the Oxygen torch tube and best place to make the output smoke hole in the lid,is it better to make it above the lid or from Infront of it?

 

[Yggdrasil]

There is no crucible, only refractory bricks similar to rotary furnace design, I thought about making a lid to make sure I will reach to copper melting point and save energy, lid could be covered from inside with only ceramic fiber so it will be easily carried by two mens when want to skim of slag or pour copper shots or anode

This design will also serve the pyrolisys process and will be more convenient with incineration after pyrolisys since we have more surface area than normal vertical crucible,also it will help to easy mix fluxes with incinerated and milled material

That's all just thoughts, I'm sharing it to get some ideas before start building the furnace, now am thinking about the best place to insert the Oxygen torch tube and best place to make the output smoke hole in the lid,is it better to make it above the lid or from Infront of it?

That depends on the possibility to find the correct bricks that can tolerate the Copper temperatures.

 

[Ayham Hafez]

That depends on the possibility to find the correct bricks that can tolerate the Copper temperatures.

The most used lining refractory material in the metallurgy of copper is chromium-magnesite refractory. Magnesia, magnesia-spinel (MgO*Al2O3), and dolomite (MgO*CaO) refractories are also used in copper metallurgy

 

[Ayham Hafez]

Is there any differences if we use light soda ash in smelting rather than dense soda ash?