Accomplished nothing so far

[Proffshuggarn]

It could be trawling the threads

Of course I’m trawling the forum from A to Z (Thanks for rescuing me there @Yggdrasil)
I’m from Sweden and using often translator, both when reading and writing.
I blame Google translate, it sometimes becomes difficult to nuance and understand when the translator interprets a text in a completely different way than it was originally intended.
We're starting over, the question was whether I save the copper crumbs that remain in the stock pot?
/Dennis

 

[Kevin.rochay]

Hello all. I was a much better engineer than I am a gold recovery chemist. I have disassembled a workstation, two laptops, a cell phone and multiple other electronics and recovered absolutely nothing so far. I have used aqua regia on computer parts after breaking them down in nitric or hydrochloric acid or even cleaning with lye. After washing the parts with water and heating in aqua regia, I get what appears as a yellow or green liquid. The solution tests weakly for gold (light purple from stanneous chloride). After killing nitric with urea, I've added sodium metabisulfite, which the solution gobbles up, but never produces any tangible precipitate. On two occasions I've gotten violent overflows. But nothing really ever drops from the solution. Any suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong would be much appreciated. Thank you.

It's challenging to recover gold from electronics, and it seems like you're on the right track. However, the lack of a precipitate could be due to low gold concentrations or incomplete reduction.

Consider trying a stronger reducing agent like sodium borohydride or even electrolysis to precipitate the gold. Also, ensure you're neutralizing aqua regia completely before adding sodium metabisulfite.

 

[Martijn]

It's challenging to recover gold from electronics, and it seems like you're on the right track. However, the lack of a precipitate could be due to low gold concentrations or incomplete reduction.

Consider trying a stronger reducing agent like sodium borohydride or even electrolysis to precipitate the gold. Also, ensure you're neutralizing aqua regia completely before adding sodium metabisulfite.

Per the bold print:
Don't you think this substance needs some warnings before you advise a beginning chemist / refiner to use it?
Any precautions to mention, sir?
Info from the from the msds:
Material reacts vigorously with water emitting flammable gases,Violent reaction with: strong oxidiser, Alcohols, Metal powder, Phenol, Acids, Sulphuric acid, Hydrogen peroxide,=> Explosive properties

Please think about what you are advising!!!!
And I have not even mentioned the health issues with this product.

@Edwin, please don't consider this option...! stay alive.

edited for spelling

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Consider trying a stronger reducing agent like sodium borohydride or even electrolysis to precipitate the gold. Also, ensure you're neutralizing aqua regia completely before adding sodium metabisulfite.

You do not neutralize aqua regia before using sodium metabisulfite. You deNO_X the solution, meaning you eliminate any excess nitric acid and nitrates. Sodium metabisulfite needs HCl in the solution to work.

Dave

 

[Edwin Price]

It's challenging to recover gold from electronics, and it seems like you're on the right track. However, the lack of a precipitate could be due to low gold concentrations or incomplete reduction.

Consider trying a stronger reducing agent like sodium borohydride or even electrolysis to precipitate the gold. Also, ensure you're neutralizing aqua regia completely before adding sodium metabisulfite.

I use sulphamic acid to kill nitric and ferrous sulfate to precipitate gold. ty for the input.

 

[Edwin Price]

You do not neutralize aqua regia before using sodium metabisulfite. You deNO_X the solution, meaning you eliminate any excess nitric acid and nitrates. Sodium metabisulfite needs HCl in the solution to work.

Dave

Thank you all for the advice, comments and warnings. I am a beginning gold refiner, not a beginning chemist. I had my first Gilbert Chemistry set in 1969. While studying nuclear engineering at university I took two semesters of chemistry, also materials engineering and nuclear materials. I provided oversight at three nuclear fuel facilities in the USA. There, in highly secure controlled ventilation areas you encounter virtually every chemical or compound you can imagine from uranium dioxide, uranyl nitrate, uranium hexafluoride, etc. I love all forms of chemistry. And, I love gold and gem mining.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Thank you all for the advice, comments and warnings. I am a beginning gold refiner, not a beginning chemist. I had my first Gilbert Chemistry set in 1969. While studying nuclear engineering at university I took two semesters of chemistry, also materials engineering and nuclear materials. I provided oversight at three nuclear fuel facilities in the USA. There, in highly secure controlled ventilation areas you encounter virtually every chemical or compound you can imagine from uranium dioxide, uranyl nitrate, uranium hexafluoride, etc. I love all forms of chemistry. And, I love gold and gem mining.

This post was not directed at you.
If you check you will se that it was directed at Kevin.

 

[Edwin Price]

This post was not directed at you.
If you check you will se that it was directed at Kevin.

 

[Edwin Price]

No sir. Never said it was directed at me. But I took the opportunity to join in and let a few more members know my story. Also, I completely agree about being safety conscious, especially where violent or explosive reactions may occur.

 

[orvi]

Per the bold print:
Don't you think this substance needs some warnings before you advise a beginning chemist / refiner to use it?
Any precautions to mention, sir?
Info from the from the msds:
Material reacts vigorously with water emitting flammable gases,Violent reaction with: strong oxidiser, Alcohols, Metal powder, Phenol, Acids, Sulphuric acid, Hydrogen peroxide,=> Explosive properties

Please think about what you are advising!!!!
And I have not even mentioned the health issues with this product.

@Edwin, please don't consider this option...! stay alive.

edited for spelling

Sodium borohydride is very interesting reagent. It is very effective, strong reducing agent, but on the other side, very unforgiving and violent chemical If you do not exactly know what you are doing.

As org. chemist, I used it many many times for reductions of various compounds. Also, I experimented few times with silver reduction from Ag(NH3)2 solution (as the molar ratio Ag vs. NaBH4 is 8:1 and molar mass of NaBH4 is very low = very little reducer for quite a bit of silver).

However, I can say that it is maybe good that this compound is very very difficult to get for the amateurs (due to illicit uses for making drugs), and also has too much hazard/danger signs for easy and convenient shipping.

Truth is, I never got a better result with NaBH4 than with other (chaper and safer) reducers for precious metals. My favourite quintette was SMB, sugar, formic acid, zinc/aluminium/iron and ascorbic acid

 

[Edwin Price]

Very frustrating final step setback last nite. I had gold powder. I had a glazed crucible, a MAPP gas torch, borax flux and sodium carbonate. I managed to melt the material to a red hot liquid form. But, whenever I’d sprinkle the sodium carbonate, the gold would not coalesce into a bb or button. After cool down, there was visible gold through out the product. The material seemed more like hard graphite with gold throughout instead of metal. I washed it with dilute sulphuric. That step produced no noticeable change. I was obviously disappointed, So I crushed the material back to a fine powder with my mortar and pestal. Apparently about half of what I began with was incinerated in the process. I have more gold bearing material to add, if need be. This effort was a trial with a relatively small amount of precipitated and dried gold material. What should I do to make the gold content coalesce and form a bb or button? Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

 

[Edwin Price]

Remaining material…

 

[Yggdrasil]

Very frustrating final step setback last nite. I had gold powder. I had a glazed crucible, a MAPP gas torch, borax flux and sodium carbonate. I managed to melt the material to a red hot liquid form. But, whenever I’d sprinkle the sodium carbonate, the gold would not coalesce into a bb or button. After cool down, there was visible gold through out the product. The material seemed more like hard graphite with gold throughout instead of metal. I washed it with dilute sulphuric. That step produced no noticeable change. I was obviously disappointed, So I crushed the material back to a fine powder with my mortar and pestal. Apparently about half of what I began with was incinerated in the process. I have more gold bearing material to add, if need be. This effort was a trial with a relatively small amount of precipitated and dried gold material. What should I do to make the gold content coalesce and form a bb or button? Thank you in advance for your help and advice.

If you have pure Gold no flux is needed.

 

[goldshark]

Remaining material…

Try putting some insulation under the melt dish, or preheat crucible to red before putting in powders. Or as Kurtak suggested in another thread, put the melt dish on a camp stove to heat from underneath, as well as the torch.

 

[Martijn]

If you get some aerated concrete blocks to put underneath and around it, you can retain more heat. They are pretty heat resistant and dirt cheap.
I make my mini furnace with them to melt gold powder with a propane torch.
Notice there is no flux before melting.

 

[Edwin Price]

I doubt my gold powder is 100% pure. But, I probably used too much borax. What about sodium carbonate? I’ve seen some refiners mix a small amount in with their dried gold powder prior to applying heat. And, is it really necessary to draw out a bead or button after melting? Thank you.

 

[Martijn]

I doubt my gold powder is 100% pure. But, I probably used too much borax. What about sodium carbonate? I’ve seen some refiners mix a small amount in with their dried gold powder prior to applying heat. And, is it really necessary to draw out a bead or button after melting? Thank you.

No flux or sodium carbonate sprinkle needed if you wash the gold proprely. Just a brand new borax sprinkle glazed crucible and a clean torch.
I only get a slight purple discoloration in the crucible. Any base metal impurity will leave a stain.
How well did you chill, dilute and filter the solution before precipitation?
There might be silver chloride in the powder that won't melt.
Read this thread:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/posts/2620/
The amonia step can be skipped, but there is a good description of how to wash and melt.

 

[Edwin Price]

No flux or sodium carbonate sprinkle needed if you wash the gold proprely. Just a brand new borax sprinkle glazed crucible and a clean torch.
I only get a slight purple discoloration in the crucible. Any base metal impurity will leave a stain.
How well did you chill, dilute and filter the solution before precipitation?
There might be silver chloride in the powder that won't melt.
Read this thread:
https://goldrefiningforum.com/posts/2620/
The amonia step can be skipped, but there is a good description of how to wash and melt.

“How well did you chill, dilute and filter the solution before precipitation?“ I thought I filtered pretty well. But I could’ve used ice and washed/diluted more. Thank you very much for any and all advice.

 

[Martijn]

“How well did you chill, dilute and filter the solution before precipitation?“ I thought I filtered pretty well. But I could’ve used ice and washed/diluted more. Thank you very much for any and all advice.

When you wash the powder with hot HCl, any silver chloride will give a yellow color to the solution. Rinse and repeat until a wash stays clear.

 

[slsmp40]

I appreciate the info and encouragement. I did some minor depopulating tonite. Mostly from an old router and a few pieces of pcb.

One tidbit of advice. Get the tin out in a separate operation. It poisons the later gold drop, or reduces whatever gold chlorides are formed as fast as they form. Lots of ways to go about it. I prefer a hcl dip tank so I can electrowin it back at a later time.