Banning of Jeneje

[Barren Realms 007]

Geo - I hate to say this but that is pure BS - your post here has nothing to do with trying to stay out of it - but feeling a need to respond --- this post of yours is the result of a planed approach after discussing it in a group skype discussion using the RPM skype conference call set up --- how do I know this - because I may be ban from logging on to RPM from my computer - BUT - I have friends & they have computers to - so "through" a friends membership I am still able to see what's going on - when I saw you, Ken, Troax, spaceace & Frank & a couple others all logged on - I decided to send Frank a text asking if it was a good time to call him --- he replied saying - I'm on skype call l'll let you know when I'm finished

Kurt

Kurt I was on Skype and facebook yesterday just like most days for business reasons. I was not on a skype call with Ken and that group. I don't even have them in my contact's list on skype. I have stood behind you and Jon and supported both of you even if I haven't said much about what has happened. I do not agree with what Ken and the group on RPM had done to Chris, Jon and others. Or the way things have been handled there.

IMHO the list they are trying to build is a bunch of crap that in no way could be trusted because of the diversity in product that is available. Testing is the only way to know for sure what you are dealing with unless you deal with the same exact material all of the time and that is almost an impossibility.

 

[kurtak]

I urge people to keep calm. We have no problem with any one else at this time and I hope it stays that way.

Göran

I agree absolutely - I hope my post did not come across that way - it was NOT my intent - if anything my post was meant to point out - "be careful NOT to make this a side choosing issue"

Which is why I tried (hoped) to temper my post by including the FACT that many of use here from GRF have in fact put a GREAT deal of our time & effort (some even money) into trying to help Ken & his forum out

For crying out load - I personally - a fair number of times posted "here" on GRF encouraging members from here to go check out Kens forum - when he (Ken) posted on RPM that his forum was not doing enough in activity so he was thinking of shutting it down - sent him the money for another months service & told him to keep it going for another month & see how it goes - I posted "many" long & detailed post - often receiving much thanks for the contribution with my greatest contribution being the thread on smelting - information he would not have on his forum if not for that contribution

Geo, Tzoax or some other member of both forums --- please give Ken this massage for me ----------

I knew BEFORE I exited the way I did - that you would be able to retrieve what I edited out of my posting - with nothing other then a "little" time on your part - my exit was NOT meant to do GREAT harm (because I new it wouldn't) --- rather - it was meant as a bit of a sting - or a message of sorts - to say --- Ken - your actions &/or attitude of late is unacceptable - TOTALLY Unacceptable

AND - I am actually sorry it came to this - VERY sorry really --- because it DID NOT need to come to this

I "actually" hate to see something I myself put so much into come to such an end :!: :!: :!:

Edited; - for missing words & spelling

Edit to add; - its kind of like helping to build a house only to see it destroyed by fire

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Kurt I was on Skype and facebook yesterday just like most days for business reasons. I was not on a skype call with Ken and that group.

OK - my bad - an assumption on my part as a result of being at my friends looking at what was going on - on RPM at the time I sent you my text - you were part of the list of members logged on

Goes to show what an assumption will get you - kind of like a poke in the eye with a sharp stick :shock: (that's ouch)

Even if you were in a Skype conference there - I would also assume it was by invite (as would be the case with all - were that the case) --- not the same as all agreeing in such a conference

Edit to add; - please except my humble appology

Kurt

 

[Barren Realms 007]

Kurt I was on Skype and facebook yesterday just like most days for business reasons. I was not on a skype call with Ken and that group.

OK - my bad - an assumption on my part as a result of being at my friends looking at what was going on - on RPM at the time I sent you my text - you were part of the list of members logged on

Goes to show what an assumption will get you - kind of like a poke in the eye with a sharp stick :shock: (that's ouch)

Even if you were in a Skype conference there - I would also assume it was by invite (as would be the case with all - were that the case) --- not the same as all agreeing in such a conference

Edit to add; - please except my humble appology

Kurt

Accepted my friend.

 

[Geo]

I said what I thought and that is all I am saying about the situation.

Kurt, I consider Ken a friend and we talk on skype, we talk on the phone, I've been to Ken's house a few times. I also consider every member here to be my friend. I do not collude or conspire to cause trouble. No one puts words into my mouth. I can get into trouble all on my own. I consider you as a friend, even now. Simply because I have tried to keep my business with each forum separate. If that is too hard to believe, there nothing I can do about it.

I will not voluntarily quit the GRF. If I am causing a distraction or if I'm part of the problem, perhaps you should vote to remove me. I owe the GRF for almost everything I know about refining. I am loyal to the GRF and that will not change. I am sorry that I appear to be guilty by association. I had nothing to do with you and Chris being banned from the RoPM and it hurt me when I logged in and saw what had happened. The only thing I'm guilty of is trying to be a good friend and being there when they want to talk. I am a good listener.

This conflict has cost me personally. I now have people whom I still consider my friends who holds animosity towards me for a situation that doesn't even concern me. I tried to put my best foot forward and offer whatever apology I could to Chris and he ignores me completely. I consider him to be a mentor and teacher. So this in itself is a big blow to me. I was learning about smelting from you and I very much appreciate your time for the explanations and guidance.

Why does it have to be one or the other, your either with us or against us. Why can't I be a friend to Ken and still be a member here? I don't argue. I don't practice backstabbing or sniping. I say what's on my mind and for me it's over and done. I am not the one to hold a grudge. I don't go to Ken with "people said this or that" just like I will not come here and post remarks from him.

I am saddened and heartbroken over how this all turned out. I wish I could distance myself from all of it but it's too late for that. The only thing I can do now is try and repair broken connections.

 

[aga]

For supposed Adults, this whole thing has blown all out of proportion.

Nothing has actually happened ! Nobody died !

Some Friends had an argument over a small point and are now not talking to each other.

If they were friends before, both sides will cool down and things can return to normal in time.

If that simply Cannot happen because of some angry words said, they were never Real Friends in the first place.

"least Said, soonest Mended" springs to mind - leave it a while, then get back in touch, in the spirit of reconcilliation.

 

[butcher]

I say we get back to helping each other find that elusive gold.

Enough trouble in the mining camps let's quit bickering and get back to mining, and helping each other.

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

I say we get back to helping each other find that elusive gold.

Enough trouble in the mining camps let's quit bickering and get back to mining, and helping each other.

I can get behind that statement. :!:

 

[glorycloud]

Enough trouble in the mining camps let's quit bickering and get back to mining, and helping each other.

Amen to that! 8)

 

[silversaddle1]

Again, why can't this whole post just "go away?".

 

[aga]

I say we get back to helping each other find that elusive gold.

You sure there's Gold in this e-scrap stuff ?

I keep digging at it and haven't found any yet !

 

[FrugalRefiner]

Again, why can't this whole post just "go away?".

The moderators talked about making the first post, then locking the thread. In my opinion, that just creates problems of its own. As is evident in this thread, members have opinions and feelings. It is our hope that by allowing members to comment, they can get it out of their system here on this thread. If we lock or delete the thread, those opinions and feelings will just pop up somewhere else. At least that's my personal opinion.

The thread will fade into obscurity all on its own.

Dave

 

[4metals]

What the moderators of this forum are trying to preserve is a formula that works. We have new members come here all the time and if they are willing to do the studying and ask the questions when they need some help they are successful. We have amongst our members a good number of successful refiners who process scrap for a living. And they learned their skills from reading, studying and asking questions.

We invite all who can adhere to our relatively simple guidelines to join our refining family. The information we give is free and we have made a decision to keep it that way. Anyone can post anything they want about refining and recovery whether it is by classic methods or something new and potentially cutting edge. But don't think for a minute it will not be challenged if it doesn't seem right to our members. This is how real science works, make a proposal, throw it out there and prepare to defend your theory. We felt this way before this issue popped up with Jeneje and we still feel this way. This thread was not meant to make anyone feel uncomfortable being here but to let you know what happened to one member. It is unfortunate that it had to go down this way and I have no regrets that the moderators did what is right for our forum.

So now maybe we can move on, together.

 

[aga]

This should not be forgotten, just left for a while then let old friends kiss and make up behind the scenes.

It's all a storm in a teacup over some simple and trivial misunderstandings.

People can be banned, un-banned, create a new account etc so nothing is set in stone.

The choice to allow discussion about the situation shows great Maturity and Sense.

Today i also signed up and posted about this on RPM, and do not feel threatened either here or there, despite never having successfully recovered nor refined even a microgram of gold, despite a lot of trying.

That day will come, as will a reconcilliation, so the race is on !

I'll offer Gambling Odds (paypal only, bets pre-paid, subject to terms and conditions) :-
25:1 aga recovers some gold first
10:1 GRF and RPM make friends again first.

Edit: vitally important gambling typo

 

[Long Shot]

Hear, hear 4Metals.

 

[geedigity]

I respect the members and moderators of this forum and appreciate all of the peer reviewed knowledge that is provided freely on this forum. I also feel that bringing this issue to light is good for all members. Since precious metals and ultimately, money tends to attract people that can be described as unscrupulous, dishonest, deceitful, crooked, and/or etc, it is of great importance to know when the character of someone is shown to be questionable. I am confident and trust in GFR's ability to help other members make well informed decisions. If Jeneje was not on the up and up and was knowingly misstating the facts or lying, it is important for members to know this, since it helps us, the "buyers, beware."

I do want to point out that I followed Tzoax' yield thread with great interest and was appreciative of the time and energy that went into obtaining the yields. When it came to light that the balance used was only accurate to +/- 0.1 grams, I remembered some of my erroneous conclusions I made when I first started in the professional world following obtaining my engineering degree. Were they painful, yes but there was a bright side to it all. I realized how fortunate I was to have a mentor that had the knowledge and experience to quickly identify the flaw in my analysis, logic or assumptions. So Tzoax, remember that GSP did you a favor and pointed out what you needed to fix so you could produce more reliable data. Given the quantities of materials measured, the +/- 0.1 gram accuracy is significant and I thank GSP for catching that. In light of that revelation, I would hope that the yield data was redone prior to selling the application that relied on that data. If Jeneje purchased it and is/was offering it for sale knowing this, then this would represent questionable character. Good science is repeatable, guess science is called gambling.

 

[goldsilverpro]

I think Jeneje was on the up and up. I just think he didn't have enough technical knowledge to realize the flaws in what he wanted to do.

This thread is locked. I'm bored with it and others have said they were bored with it. Onward to bigger and better things.

 

[Lou]

Ken is on the up and up insofar as my dealings with him have been concerned. I have transacted with him without any issue whatsoever and met him in person a few weeks ago when he came to pick up some surplus equipment off of me. He bought reference standards as high purity metal from me and the now infamous AA. I also gave him instruction on preparing and using/storing the standards, which arguably is the most important part in executing a comparative method such as spectroscopy.