Best way to melt nickel at home?

[lazersteve]

Does that mean you got your robots.txt file situated now?

I know in the past you could find posts on this forum with google.

Steve

 

[Noxx]

Seriously ?
I didn't know. I taught Google didn't have access to the posts.

 

[lazersteve]

It can't now that registration is required.

 

[jimmy759]

Well i have graduated high school and have a few years of college under my belt. I'm working as a heavy duty mechanic.

But I'm always looking for a little extra here and there.

I do have goals in life and I do have plans for the future.

But i'm still young and have very little to loose so why not take some risks.

But criminal risks are not worth it. To a point as everyone does have there price.

And well It takes money to make money.


Its been done with silver coins why not with nickel.

And is such a bad idea to maybe think outside the box once and a while.

I did not want this to become an argument as it seems to have.

But I kind of fueled the fire.

 

[Harold_V]

Well i have graduated high school and have years of college under my belt. I'm working as a heavy duty mechanic.

Way cool, Jimmy. You have my respect.

But i'm still young and have very little to loose so why not take some risks.

I agree---nothing ventured, nothing gained, but nickel, at least as you've proposed the plan, is far beyond being reasonable. I'll give you my perspective, for what it's worth.

Nickel is one of the metals that doesn't respond well to torch melting. Jewelers use it to alloy white gold, and it's tricky to melt without oxidizing. Of course, with a controlled atmosphere, the vast majority of the problems of melting are eliminated-----but that's way beyond your ability without expending a huge amount of money. Many years ago I investigated an induction furnace that worked in a vacuum (great solution to the problem of oxidization) and found you could easily spend more than $100,000 for one.

I think the point here isn't so much that you'd need some equipment----if your concept was legal, you could simply sell the nickels to a buyer, accepting payment by the pound. Great idea, and I think I'd go for it, too. Problem is, you've openly discussed the process of practicing deceit----as if you're willing to break the law to pick up a few bucks. It's hard for those of us that don't know you to know where you'd draw the line. Could be you'd feel equally at ease with the idea of robbing a bank, so long as you stole only a small amount of money. Or, maybe, you'd be willing to burglarize a residence if you felt you could find some silver coins---if you get my drift. Dunno, and I'm not here to judge you, just trying to help you see that you're presenting yourself to humanity in such a way that we can get a very poor impression of you, when you may very well be one hell of a great guy. I think you probably are----your efforts in preparing yourself to make a living, thus far, appear to be quite good, and are a sign of responsibility.

But criminal risks are not worth it. To a point as everyone does have there price.

Exactly! You'd feel great about receiving even a small part of that $80/hr you spoke of-----but it wouldn't come close to covering the cost of an attorney if you got your butt busted-----assuming there's anything illegal about your plan. Just trying to help you see that.

And well It takes money to make money.

My experience thus far in life is that there's some magical line, which I can not describe. If you live above that line, money tends to fall in your lap. If you live below that line, you're always a day late and a buck short. Not being in debt up to your eyebrows on credit cards, not buying a new car because you want one, not buying stupid things that lose value immediately---not doing drugs-----not being the local drunk-----along with many other factors, dictate, in part, on which side of that line you're going to dwell.

Its been done with silver coins why not with nickel.

I'll give you one real good reason. It's not beyond the ability of the home refiner to silently process silver coins. You can't do that with nickel, for reasons I've already mentioned. There are likely more reasons that I've left out. Some metals are difficult to deal with, and having them in forms that are not easily identified further complicates matters. I'll offer you, as an example, the copper sludge that is generated from refining gold and silver. It's still copper, but there's no market for the stuff. If you melt it and cast a bar, so it becomes marketable as scrap copper, you're invested in the bar more than it's value. I'm afraid you'd find yourself in that same position with nickel. If, on the other hand, you could gather them, bag them, and sell them by weight, great. While they're still in the form, as struck, you know what you have. The moment you change that, you render them as scrap, of unknown quality. Nickel may be worth $20/lb, but the junk you'd end up with won't be, regardless of how you treat it.

And is such a bad idea to maybe think outside the box once and a while.

Absolutely not! That's how new things come about. I don't have a problem with thinking at all----just a problem with decisions that are not viable.

I did not want this to become an argument as it seems to have. But I kind of fueled the fire.

Not an argument as far as I'm concerned, Jimmy. Just a serious conversation (hopefully between friends) that can be beneficial. If you and I can't have a conversation without offending, we're not acting like adults.

I commented I was young once, too. It's been a long time, but not so long that I can't remember getting my tit in a wringer for making bad decisions. One of them was climbing poles, changing out insulators. I was a collector for a few years, back when insulators with collecting value were still to be found on poles, often even without wire on them. I got busted two times before I wised up. The legal owners of those poles (railroads and the telephone companies) take a real dim view of people taking their possessions, even if they aren't using them and they'll eventually end up in the dump. One of my instances was exactly that, insulators from a mainline UP track in a small community south of Pocatello, Idaho. No wire on the glass, not being used, and never would be again, but the insulators didn't belong to me, and they made that abundantly clear!

Young people don't have good judgment in many cases, not having had enough experience in life to be properly informed, and also having the attitude that they're indestructible. I was no different. I see things very differently now than I did in those days. I screwed up big time on several occasions, but was lucky to land on my feet. I understand you and where you are----so please don't take any of this in such a way as to think I'm talking down to you . That's not my intention.

Harold.

 

[Noxx]

Young people don't have good judgment in many cases, not having had enough experience in life to be properly informed, and also having the attitude that they're indestructible.

Kinda true. That's why experience of you guys (and advices you give) is important to me

 

[catfish]

Hey guys:

You folks may want to revisit Webster’s definition of “Conspiracy”

The act of conspiring to commit a Federal crime caries the same sentence as actually committing the crime it’s self in most cases. My U.S. Attorney friend sez it is easier to convict some one for conspiracy than it is for actually committing the crime.

You may want to visit this U.S.C.

United States Code
TITLE 18
PART I
CHAPTER 17
§ 331. Mutilation, diminution, and falsification of coins

Quote:

“Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, and diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.”

Like the statute I previously discussed, prior to 1994 when this law
was amended, the statute read “fined not more than $2,000”. This was
changed in 1994 to read “shall be fined under this title” which
effectively gives the court the authority to impose a fine at its
discretion. Of course the imprisonment terms mentioned in the statute
speaks for itself.

Note:

The key word in the above act is “Current, in actual use or circulation.”

Do people sometimes do this and get away with it? Sure they do. We've all seen it and yet no one seems to be swooping down on the violators to haul them off to jail.

If this is the law spelled out before us in black and white then why
doesn’t the government prosecute everyone who does it?” Your guess is as good as mine; but nevertheless, there’s the law, just as it is written and you may want to reconsider your thinking on this endeavor.

I sure would not want to be the first one to be prosecuted for this type of activity.

Harold, I believe you summed it up best. Don’t even think about it, for it is not worth it.

“Too much sugar for a dime”

Catfish

 

[Harold_V]

Hmmm! Catfish, that actually raises a question. Not being an attorney, what I get from what you quoted is that the federal government is interested in preventing the alteration of the value of any coinage, not concerned so much with melting, which simply removes it/them from circulation, and no one is snookered. I can understand how removing a portion from each coin would be considered illegal-----when coins are made of precious metals, and that appears to be the point of the restriction.

It would be interesting to hear about the legality of simply melting coins for their content, with no thoughts of deceiving anyone-----such as melting pre-'82 pennies for the copper content, say, for a casting of sorts. Or----even the nickels that precipitated this thread. When you think about it, they really are two completely different matters-----although I concede, may be equally illegal.

Harold

 

[catfish]

Hi Harold:

You pose an interesting comment.

This is the response from the Treasury Department. Please note the last sentence, “However there are no sanctions against such activity absent of fraudulent intent”.

As we all know, there are 15 different ways to interpret a law.

http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/coins/portraits.shtml#top

Quote:

FAQs: Coins
________________________________________
________________________________________
Is it illegal to damage or deface coins?
Section 331 of Title 18 of the United States code provides criminal penalties for anyone who “fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the Mints of the United States.” This statute means that you may be violating the law if you change the appearance of the coin and fraudulently represent it to be other than the altered coin that it is. As a matter of policy, the U.S. Mint does not promote coloring, plating or altering U.S. coinage: however, there are no sanctions against such activity absent fraudulent intent.

I buy quite a few Silver coins and resell them to my recycler for silver scrap.

Catfish

 

[Harold_V]

Heh! Yep, sounds like maybe Jimmy's plan is fine-----he simply has to sell the nickels as is, without any attempt to deface, melt, or otherwise change the coins. Truth be told, that's in his favor, because messing with nickel is a tough call for anyone without proper equipment. As long as he bags and sells, he's certainly not doing anything to snooker anyone.

Go for it, Jimmy! (Although it might not hurt to check with your attorney beforehand. As catfish suggested, there's likely 15 ways the law can be interpreted).

The other problem, of course, will be to discover a buyer. That may be harder than anyone might suppose. Ever try to sell rhodium?

Because I had a relatively steady source of scrap sterling, I didn't melt US coins (which came in occasionally), so I have them safely tucked away, including the Kennedy halves that are, what, 35% silver? I melted only very badly damaged coins when I refined.

Harold

 

[jimmy759]

I appriciate all the information around this topic.

I have been busy this weekend. So I haven't had the time to reply properly.

I will do some more reasearch into things now that i have a better starting point.

Harold I really respect your opionion and knowledge.
And hope that I may be able to help you in the near future. Also being able to learn more too.

I'm going a way to montreal for a week tommorrow so I Will not be around for a while.

Again Thank you all

 

[Harold_V]

Have a safe trip, Jimmy.

Harold

 

[whitesid]

i know that they lifted the law restricting the melting of silver coins, so you can melt down the silver coins. as for Canada coins i don't know if YOU can but i know that the Canadian government is taking back the nickel nickels and the copper pennies and melting them down. its is illegal to melt down US copper pennies and nickels(this also includes the silver nickels).

im sure they are going to lift that in a few years, its the same thing that they did with the silver coins. when they switched over to the copper clad coins they made it illegal to melt them down. but years after it was legalized

 

[bmgold]

As I have stated on another post, If a lot of the coins get melted (legally or not) the value to collectors will go up. Silver coins are worth more to collectors than the value of the silver. Check with a coin dealer or collector before melting any. You might have to hold on to them (copper pennies, etc.) but I expect the value to go up as they get rarer and harder to find. Badly damaged silver coins might be an exception since the condition very much influences the price.

 

[Felony Frank]

I’m not sure about Canada but in America you can melt down coins without fear of the law. It’s when you try to sell the bar is what they don’t like. Uncle Sam always wants his cut

 

[kurtak]

I’m not sure about Canada but in America you can melt down coins without fear of the law. It’s when you try to sell the bar is what they don’t like. Uncle Sam always wants his cut

Per the bold print - that is not true - if you are melting down pennies (the actual copper pennies) &/or nickels with the intent to sell the copper &/or nickel as copper or nickel bars/ingots because copper/nickel is worth more then the face value of the coins - & therefore melting the coins with the intent to make a profit on the market value of the copper nickel --- you are breaking the law - & if caught - end up being arrested - fined - jailed (prison) or both

https://makeitfrommetal.com/is-it-illegal-to-melt-destroy-us-pennies-and-other-coins/

Uncle Sam always wants his cut

Uncle Sam wanting his cut (taxes on the sale of the copper/brass) has nothing to do with it

The reason melting coins down (as described above) is against the law is because of the cost to replace the coins when the coins are taken out of the economy - melted down - then sold for its copper/nickel value (which is greater then the coins face value)

in other words - it becomes a burden on the taxpayers to replace the coins that are taken out of the economy with the above intent (make a profit on the value of the copper/nickel) that makes doing so against the law

Kurt

 

[andu]

I thought quite a bit about the oxidation problem and i'm thinking a lid for graphite crucibles could get this done in a normal fire furnace? It can fairly easily reach 1500º, doubt argon would stay inside but could help i'd like to believe. I got myself a bunch of mu metal from hard drives which is roughly 75% nickel 20% copper and like 5% molybdenum or chromium and i would love to turn it to ingots.
No idea what i'm doing with the neodymium tho, that's a PITA to work with.