awesome! i already read"building a pyroliser furnance" and we try a same idea for pyrolyser. after that,inciniration is quite fumes free. i am clear till this. next comes grinding. we have a ball mill. its also done. next step is using flux. we are using a nitrate, borax, soda ash, lead. now what about this flux fumes?
lead fumes
- Thread starter ashir
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thanks again for the results. i find a nice thread about ic chips yield data! according to that we are loosing money as we pay 7 to 8 dollars per kg motherboards. mix p1,2,3,4 may be some processors, some rams attached. we resell depopulated biards with 2 dollars per kg. we remove only BGA chips, mlcc only. this make me to relook at my yield data ! thanks man, yet i not get what i want but i get a doubt! and Doubts make you think again. thanks
Why did you choose to use lead and a nitrate in a smelting process?
This seems very contradictive or in opposition to your questions of dealing with toxic flux fumes.
What is your goal? Why add lead if you are just going to oxidize it?
Then again why add soda ash (a reducing agent) along with an oxidizer nitrate?
What is your goal? To use lead as a collector or is it to oxidize the lead?
Lead oxide would be a good collector in an assay (with a reducing agent, but would make a very poor recovery method, especially on a large scale.
This seems very contradictive or in opposition to your questions of dealing with toxic flux fumes.
What is your goal? Why add lead if you are just going to oxidize it?
Then again why add soda ash (a reducing agent) along with an oxidizer nitrate?
What is your goal? To use lead as a collector or is it to oxidize the lead?
Lead oxide would be a good collector in an assay (with a reducing agent, but would make a very poor recovery method, especially on a large scale.
ok so i now tell you what i am thonking! please explain me which step should be reduce, add or substitute with orther steps.
1 . collect material to be processed. mix ic's + mlccs+ some pins ( that left after cleaning)
2 pyrolise
3 incinerate.
4 ball mill to make fine powder
5 magnatic sepration
6 mix soda ash( reducer)
sodium nitrate(oxidiser) may be work with some ceramic that might be present
lead( collecter)
7 melt the ash to get piece of base metals + pms
8 make a pot with calcium hydroxide + wood ash
( to absorb lead with base metals)
9 reget a metal with less base metals.
10 treat with nitric.
11 get silver and palladium
12 ar to get gold
..... this is the process i write to practice.
we will do this process two time in a month with approximately 8 to 10 kg ics and 3 to 4 kg mlccs at a time
now i want to make it more simple if you see my process is wrong, or immproper, un necessary,
or there is a batter way! ( not the electrolytic process, untill i take time to read, understand , practice them) and move to medium to large scale . i am assure i clear myself more !
1 . collect material to be processed. mix ic's + mlccs+ some pins ( that left after cleaning)
2 pyrolise
3 incinerate.
4 ball mill to make fine powder
5 magnatic sepration
6 mix soda ash( reducer)
sodium nitrate(oxidiser) may be work with some ceramic that might be present
lead( collecter)
7 melt the ash to get piece of base metals + pms
8 make a pot with calcium hydroxide + wood ash
( to absorb lead with base metals)
9 reget a metal with less base metals.
10 treat with nitric.
11 get silver and palladium
12 ar to get gold
..... this is the process i write to practice.
we will do this process two time in a month with approximately 8 to 10 kg ics and 3 to 4 kg mlccs at a time
now i want to make it more simple if you see my process is wrong, or immproper, un necessary,
or there is a batter way! ( not the electrolytic process, untill i take time to read, understand , practice them) and move to medium to large scale . i am assure i clear myself more !
hey butcher here are my starting points. its gaurav post ( here reading it again , i got and idea to controle fumes with oil )
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=24635&start=30
and here is kjavanb123 post about large scale refining process 2
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25794
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=24635&start=30
and here is kjavanb123 post about large scale refining process 2
https://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25794
ashir,
At this stage, you are describing using lead as a collector in a smelting process, and cupellation, although your description of the process shows you would benefit from much more research into the process and flux...
My suggestion is to stockpile the scrap that you plan to recover and refine, spend your time in study, refine your plan, gain the education, develop your plan after much much more research, and experiment with what you will learn.
My friend, at this point I would not invest my gold in your business plan, although you somewhat describe a smelting process and a planned recovery process, which if performed properly is one way to work your material, I can see just in your description you should spend more of your time in research, your gold will be there, and pile up while you do the research needed.
Keep reading and searching more of the details ( the devil is in details), gaining more understanding of the processes your planning, run small experiments, I would also keep an open mind, there are other methods, many of which you will learn more about as you study more.
Let us work on education, holding on to our gold as scrap until we have a better understanding of this processes, and maybe alternative methods, preparing yourself for success, not jumping in uneducated into a failure.
At this stage, you are describing using lead as a collector in a smelting process, and cupellation, although your description of the process shows you would benefit from much more research into the process and flux...
My suggestion is to stockpile the scrap that you plan to recover and refine, spend your time in study, refine your plan, gain the education, develop your plan after much much more research, and experiment with what you will learn.
My friend, at this point I would not invest my gold in your business plan, although you somewhat describe a smelting process and a planned recovery process, which if performed properly is one way to work your material, I can see just in your description you should spend more of your time in research, your gold will be there, and pile up while you do the research needed.
Keep reading and searching more of the details ( the devil is in details), gaining more understanding of the processes your planning, run small experiments, I would also keep an open mind, there are other methods, many of which you will learn more about as you study more.
Let us work on education, holding on to our gold as scrap until we have a better understanding of this processes, and maybe alternative methods, preparing yourself for success, not jumping in uneducated into a failure.
thanks. yes i always study , not only forum , books also. getting more and more ways, but problem become when we cannot arrange all the equipment related to a process here. soon or later it will banned in my region also as refining is banned in other main cities of pakistan( china run some recycling plants and all other refineries are banned even a small refiner also banned) we can not resell depopulated boards( managers complaint to police as a person sell them depopulated boards)
though, "devil is in details" i read smelting topics atleast once daily! i will try to give more a month to study and refine my process and then try.
i also have a problem (laugh please)
if you are A and kjavanb is B goran is C shark is D
A write a process , B says this process can b done in this way alao, C say no, this step make faults, D say no this strp is necessary!!!!
though, "devil is in details" i read smelting topics atleast once daily! i will try to give more a month to study and refine my process and then try.
i also have a problem (laugh please)
if you are A and kjavanb is B goran is C shark is D
A write a process , B says this process can b done in this way alao, C say no, this step make faults, D say no this strp is necessary!!!!
I suspect the reason that refining or recovery in your area is becoming regulated by authorities is a way to protect the public from the toxic dangers involved, people will unknowingly poison their neighbors for a gram or two of gold.
My thoughts are is to forget about getting a few grams of gold at this point, and gain an understanding of a safe way to practice, understand the dangers, understanding the different methods which work best and are safest, using your knowledge, and working within the laws of your country, education is your source of the gold,
Tons of gold can be inside a mountain, and if I do not know how to get it out, or how to survive attempts to mine it, and cannot get to it then the gold is worthless to me,and everyone else who lives near this mountain, yet if I have one rock from this mountain and a good education of how to extract the gold safely and legally, and can get some gold from it safely, then my education is what gets the gold.
Ashir you are focused on one process, you're expecting to learn what man has studied since the beginning of time, and what man has held these secrets from each other since they first found the valuable yellow metal.
You, my friend, have found the forum which shares these secrets, giving you the opportunity to learn these skills and art to learn the secrets held by kings and rulers from the uneducated people.
Education is where your gold is and through your study and curiosity is where you will find it.
If all you the time you allow yourself to study is one month, then you will still be uneducated, if you begin with a closed mind you will not be able to see the whole picture, and will still be uneducated, unable to recover gold safely from this mountain.
You can study this for the rest of your life and only learn a small portion, those who do spend their lives in study and educating themselves are the ones who can and do get the gold.
I also have a problem (laugh please)
if you are A and kjavanb is B goran is C shark is D
A write a process, B says this process can b done in this way also, C says no, this step make faults, D says no this step is necessary!!!!
Not all of us will tackle this mountain the same way, or with the same process, one man may work the ore with one process and understand how to overcome the faults in his process, the other man may choose a different process which he understands and works best for him, here on the forum you will see several different members which may tackle the ore differently and have different ideas of the best way to go, here we share our ideas and discuss the problems, and even come up with a new idea every now and then, we also discuss the problems and solutions. it is not always if it will work or if it will not, sometimes it may be what is easier or safer or just what is it I can use or what is legal...
The gold is there, and there may be several different choices of how to get it out of the rock, educated in these methods one man may choose a different method than another, not every mine (ore) will give up its values by the same process, and many times the best process has to be discovered through education and experimentation to find out what works the best, one process for one type of rock may not work with a different type of rock, here is where your education lets you adjust your process or choose a different one which works better for you.
Give your education a lifetime.
Or just beat on the rock for a month and give up, when you are done crushing it and standing there scratching your head wondering where the gold in the rock is and how to get it out.
Your gold will come with your education, not from beating on rocks for a month.
Educate yourself, about the gold in the mountain, educate yourself in the different processes, educate yourself of the dangers, educate yourself in the laws of your area, and what can be done legally, and safely. educate yourself about the gold and the mountain before even thinking about crushing the rocks, your education is your true value to get gold, not by blind uneducated experiments of crushing rocks.
My thoughts are is to forget about getting a few grams of gold at this point, and gain an understanding of a safe way to practice, understand the dangers, understanding the different methods which work best and are safest, using your knowledge, and working within the laws of your country, education is your source of the gold,
Tons of gold can be inside a mountain, and if I do not know how to get it out, or how to survive attempts to mine it, and cannot get to it then the gold is worthless to me,and everyone else who lives near this mountain, yet if I have one rock from this mountain and a good education of how to extract the gold safely and legally, and can get some gold from it safely, then my education is what gets the gold.
Ashir you are focused on one process, you're expecting to learn what man has studied since the beginning of time, and what man has held these secrets from each other since they first found the valuable yellow metal.
You, my friend, have found the forum which shares these secrets, giving you the opportunity to learn these skills and art to learn the secrets held by kings and rulers from the uneducated people.
Education is where your gold is and through your study and curiosity is where you will find it.
If all you the time you allow yourself to study is one month, then you will still be uneducated, if you begin with a closed mind you will not be able to see the whole picture, and will still be uneducated, unable to recover gold safely from this mountain.
You can study this for the rest of your life and only learn a small portion, those who do spend their lives in study and educating themselves are the ones who can and do get the gold.
I also have a problem (laugh please)
if you are A and kjavanb is B goran is C shark is D
A write a process, B says this process can b done in this way also, C says no, this step make faults, D says no this step is necessary!!!!
Not all of us will tackle this mountain the same way, or with the same process, one man may work the ore with one process and understand how to overcome the faults in his process, the other man may choose a different process which he understands and works best for him, here on the forum you will see several different members which may tackle the ore differently and have different ideas of the best way to go, here we share our ideas and discuss the problems, and even come up with a new idea every now and then, we also discuss the problems and solutions. it is not always if it will work or if it will not, sometimes it may be what is easier or safer or just what is it I can use or what is legal...
The gold is there, and there may be several different choices of how to get it out of the rock, educated in these methods one man may choose a different method than another, not every mine (ore) will give up its values by the same process, and many times the best process has to be discovered through education and experimentation to find out what works the best, one process for one type of rock may not work with a different type of rock, here is where your education lets you adjust your process or choose a different one which works better for you.
Give your education a lifetime.
Or just beat on the rock for a month and give up, when you are done crushing it and standing there scratching your head wondering where the gold in the rock is and how to get it out.
Your gold will come with your education, not from beating on rocks for a month.
Educate yourself, about the gold in the mountain, educate yourself in the different processes, educate yourself of the dangers, educate yourself in the laws of your area, and what can be done legally, and safely. educate yourself about the gold and the mountain before even thinking about crushing the rocks, your education is your true value to get gold, not by blind uneducated experiments of crushing rocks.
There are several ways to do things in refining just as butcher mentioned. By learning as many methods as you can you have more options of how you can proceed. When I first started butcher gave me some advice on making nitric acid because I could not buy it at that time. With that, I started small experiments using the homemade nitric to learn new methods for gold and silver. Until then I had used "poormans" aqua regia. By learning how to make my nitric acid, I opened new areas of refining that I could not do with out it. I learned two new things about refining because of that one new knowledge. Not having certain equipment left me needing to build or make it which left me learning new skills and understandings of how to achieve certain goals. Over time, as I progressed, I purchased some things that made refining safer for me as well as easier and quicker. While waiting for the money to build up to buy or make an item, I studied all I could on that item so I could make a better decision on what I would need next. I still have a ways to go to be where I want to be in a safe shop, but I am way further ahead than I was when I started. If money was no object, I would have done things different and I am not sure that I would have learned as much as I have by now. I do know I wouldn't have the drive to keep learning more if I had of went out and bought a prefab setup.
Some of the things I learned to build from this forum are my own fume hoods, furnaces, scrubbers, and ventilation systems for the shop area. As I said, there is still more that I will have eventually as time and money is available and I pin point the next item of the most benefit to me. There is much already on the forum that can get you a long way to your goal if you read enough of the forum. Read the library, then read it again. Read the safety section several times as well, besides keeping you a bit safer, it helps to show where you need to improve on your processes as well what equipment would be beneficial to have next. My first projects were a fume hood that was only good to keep the fumes away from me. From there I eventually set up a scrubber for the hood that went through several changes as I learned more about them and how to make them work better. It has all been an amazing journey for me, and one that is still on going today.
Good Luck, and don't forget to have fun with the learning as well.
Some of the things I learned to build from this forum are my own fume hoods, furnaces, scrubbers, and ventilation systems for the shop area. As I said, there is still more that I will have eventually as time and money is available and I pin point the next item of the most benefit to me. There is much already on the forum that can get you a long way to your goal if you read enough of the forum. Read the library, then read it again. Read the safety section several times as well, besides keeping you a bit safer, it helps to show where you need to improve on your processes as well what equipment would be beneficial to have next. My first projects were a fume hood that was only good to keep the fumes away from me. From there I eventually set up a scrubber for the hood that went through several changes as I learned more about them and how to make them work better. It has all been an amazing journey for me, and one that is still on going today.
Good Luck, and don't forget to have fun with the learning as well.
thanks shark. snoman reffer your post to me to learn the process of copper cell for pm sepration from copper. i want your more guide to prepare the material, make a homemade copper cell, saperation of pms from soolution. as i want to use copper as collecter metal instead of lead! and thanks again to give me advice on concentrate small processes first. thanks guys,i am getting support more than my expectations!
While they aren't my threads here is some of the threads that I started learning from. I am no expert in either smelting or copper cells. I just somewhat documented some of my adventures in both. They are tools used by refiners to reach specific goals and take much time to master. I also work on a very small scale compared to most of the members here, while scaling up can be easy at times others may require a complete change in how it is done. Reading is the key, and always researching will get you there.
Copper cell
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=24397
And the library link
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=25596
Smelting thread
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23680
Library link
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=25592
Copper cell
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=86&t=24397
And the library link
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=25596
Smelting thread
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=23680
Library link
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=25592
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