My latest Pd drop

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All,

Assay result on 42.6g palladium ingot shows 828. I wonder is that due to the fact the exterior layer of ingot is oxidized during melting with oxygen torch?

Regards
Kj
 
I think we need a few more details... What type of assay? What was the main contaminant? What fuel was used to melt it? In what type of vessel was it melted?

I have a hard time to see a 17.2% weight contamination by oxygen, but I might be wrong. I'm no expert on PGM:s.

Göran
 
To keep Palladium from oxidation (in the presence of oxygen) - temperature > 750C
Ref: last chapter of "30 and more recovery procedures"
 
Hi,

As for melting, my client used its oxygen gas torch. As for assay they did not roll the ingot, just used laser for some sort of x-ray to assay.

Lino,
If you keep temp to over 750 degrees, then once it cools down it will gets oxidized again.

Regards
Kj
 
Hi bro plz explain the method for me ialso hve 28 litre of nitric acid wit Pd base metal is iron and copr

Hi Nadeem

Sorry about the late response. If I were you and didn't know how much Pd is in 28 litre solution.

I would take 1 litre of that solution, then prepared DMG solution based on the following formula.

You heat 100ml of water to near boiling, add 4g of NaOH (lye) slowly to the water.

Then you add 5.81g of DMG to above and stir till all of it dissolves.

You can add the DMG solution to your 1 litre sample, if palladium in solution a canary yellow powder form, wait till it settles down then test your solution for Pd.

If negative then you filter and wash the yellow DMG Pd salt then rinse it to a beaker add zinc powder and mix it with yellow salt, then slowly add hcl and stir till solution is gray or coloress.

You can then dry and weigh the black powder which is element Pd then you multiply that by 27 to give you the Pd in 27 litre.


You then calculate how much DMG and lye water needed to drop the Pd from 27 litre.
 
Here's a Pd button I made recently. No ants were harmed in its production nor was any DMG used. No fancy smelting or furnace. All simple wet refining work done with basic chemicals, nothing you don't (correction: shouldn't) already have in your gold refining lab.

Source material was contaminated with an alphabet soup of aerospace grade alloys which were also nearly unharmed in the process. Other contamination include alloyed Au, Ag, and Pt.
View attachment highpurity_pd.mp4 (1440p).mp4

XRF done by the buyer shot 99.9%+ which is the maximum they allow on their payouts :(

Total processing time from recovery to refined button was less than 2 days and it was melted in a clean open top silica dish using an oxy/propane torch.

As with any process used in refining it's not about fancy chemicals or techniques, it's about proper application of an appropriate technique that performs the job to the expected purity standards.

Steve
 
All simple wet refining work done with basic chemicals, nothing you don't (correction: shouldn't) already have in your gold refining lab.
Steve could you elaborate a bit more ?

If no formic & no DMG then what ? (that would be basic chem in gold refining lab)

Most (but not all) chems for gold precipitation are "selective" for gold

Ascorbic maybe ???

By the way GOOD to see back & posting :cool: :cool: (y)(y)

Kurt
 
No ascorbic acid.

In my book basic means the 3 primary mineral acids (preferrably in their "dry" forms), a base of your choice, and SMB for chemicals. Add to this list a few fundamental lab tools (pH paper, beakers, funnels, and filters) and you too can produce "high" purity Pd with minimal effort and cost.

At $250+ a kilo DMG is a dead end for the refining of Pd, not to mention the unwieldy nature of the massive precipitate it forms. It's great for testing, but stinks (in more ways than one) from a recovery/refining perspective. After spending thousands of USD on DMG using it all in my Pd recovery processes (just as Kevin demonstrated above) I hit the books and found a much simpler and direct method that is both elegant and economical. Lastly, despite the accepted idea among the masses that DMG is solely selective for Pd, I can tell you first hand experience (and back it up with numerous photos) that it is not unless the reaction conditions are properly controlled. Drag down and entrapment are two major downsides to using DMG for Pd on any scale above a few grams.

Formic works when all the conditions are controlled properly, but isn't required as it forms in situ in many instances as an intermediary. It's one of those fun to try methods (been there done that), but from the standpoint of ease of use and the most direct route from soup to nuts...formic is out in my lab.

I'm still not entirely sure why PGM recovery and refining techniques have "evoled" to their currently accepted methods, but I can assure you all the whoopla surrounding them is more of a method of obstruction than good sound ends to the means of producing relatively pure PGMs. That's not to say the currently accepted techniques don't work, but they are not required to obtain PGMs of an acceptable sellable purity. Additionally, the proclaimed hazards of PGMs and their toxicity are real and perhaps this is one contributing factor as to why the more direct methods have been brushed under the proverbial rug by history. If something is made out to be complicated and difficult, few will attempt it, let alone unlock the secrets it holds.

Sorry for the long winded reply. This is a subject that I have literally devoted years of my life researching and discovering for myself here in my humble lab so it is dear to me.

Steve
 
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No ascorbic acid.

In my book basic means the 3 primary mineral acids (preferrably in their "dry" forms), a base of your choice, and SMB for chemicals. Add to this list a few fundamental lab tools (pH paper, beakers, funnels, and filters) and you too can produce "high" purity Pd with minimal effort and cost.

At $250+ a kilo DMG is a dead end for the refining of Pd, not to mention the unwieldy nature of the massive precipitate it forms. It's great for testing, but stinks (in more ways than one) from a recovery/refining perspective. After spending thousands of USD on DMG using it all in my Pd recovery processes (just as Kevin demonstrated above) I hit the books and found a much simpler and direct method that is both elegant and economical. Lastly, despite the accepted idea among the masses that DMG is solely selective for Pd, I can tell you first hand experience (and back it up with numerous photos) that it is not unless the reaction conditions are properly controlled. Drag down and entrapment are two major downsides to using DMG for Pd on any scale above a few grams.

Formic works when all the conditions are controlled properly, but isn't required as it forms in situ in many instances as an intermediary. It's one of those fun to try methods (been there done that), but from the standpoint of ease of use and the most direct route from soup to nuts...formic is out in my lab.

I'm still not entirely sure why PGM recovery and refining techniques have "evoled" to their currently accepted methods, but I can assure you all the whoopla surrounding them is more of a method of obstruction than good sound ends to the means of producing relatively pure PGMs. That's not to say the currently accepted techniques don't work, but they are not required to obtain PGMs of an acceptable sellable purity. Additionally, the proclaimed hazards of PGMs and their toxicity are real and perhaps this is one contributing factor as to why the more direct methods have been brushed under the proverbial rug by history. If something is made out to be complicated and difficult, few will attempt it, let alone unlock the secrets it holds.

Sorry for the long winded reply. This is a subject that I have literally devoted years of my life researching and discovering for myself here in my humble lab so it is dear to me.

Steve
I work with Pd a lot now. My first and biggest variable of concern is time. I refine Au and Ag materials (various common and totally uncommon feeds, different processes etc...) and also quite a bit of PGMs (mainly Pd and Pt, less Rh, in the future maybe Ir - which I only collect as enriched fractions for now).
Yet very unplesantly looking, I still use AR for kilos of pins/transistors/plated stuff and mixed Au e-scrap, lye/sugar for silver (but moving forward to iron cementation slowly) and mainly formic/DMG for Pd - sometimes DMG. Ladden with lots of pyrometallurgy for complicated matrixes and oxidative/evaporation cleaning of PGM alloys from Cd,Sn,Pb and Bi at very high temperatures.

It may sound completely nuts, but with dirty, mixed, complicated and non-homogenous materials I didn´t found better approaches suited for me (yet). And I had quite a venture with PGMs (few posts from me regarding separation of low Rh from PtPd etc...). I tried unhealthy ammount of various precipitants, SX, hydrolyses, reducing and oxidizing agents... From old NH4Cl to very interesting precipitants like mercaptobenzothiazole, SX with standard and also very uncommon solvent mixtures, various alterations of classic NH4Cl platinum drop, fractional crystallization of Na2PtCl6 contamined with Rh (relatively nicely working technique, but a bit tiring - altough done in very low volume/quantity ratio) etc... Combined hundreds of hours of doing "private" research with real samples and "made out" samples from pure PMs to prove the concept. Surely, big guys are doing better, more smoothly and nicer. But I didn´t have the ability or luck to find better working conditions for established feeds I currently have.

And despite all this, I still use DMG as precipitant of choice for bulletproof and very sharp separation of Pd from other PGMs/BM starting "soups". 250+USD/kg DMG is from local vendors - which get it from China for less than 80USD/kg - and I am getting DMG directly from China for that 80USD/kg. With like 8-10 component liquid soup of PtPdRh and you name what base metals, I get 99,8% Pd in less than one day to the ingot. Smoking loss of Pd can be minimized below 0,5%, and you catch all on the mineral wool plug (later toss to the MLCCs melt to recover the Pd, so overall no loss). Filtration of big batches is relatively horrific looking, but nothing that bad if you have setup for filtration of big volumes conveniently.

So that´s it. Not very nice and "refined" technique, but put on the sheet of paper - cheapest I currently have in hand in terms of material costs, labor time and efficiency/result delivery (combined). DMG to remove Pd out (after slight pH adjustment to positive numbers), two boiling hot, slightly acidic washes, one controlled pyrolysis/incineration and you have very nice Pd sponge in hand. If I do not need to go with DMG, I am more than happy to proceed without it.

I assume you clean the Pd by hydrolytic precipitation of base metals (raising pH), leaving pure Pd solution, which is then reduced to Pd. Just my thought, how I would do it with chemicals you mentioned. I also tried this - but as I am always dealing with AgPd alloys, silver removal is essential before Pd cleaning. Hydrolytic separation of silver and Pd work - but I never achieved desired goals with it (not sharp in my hands). So anyway, silver need to be removed beforehand and Pd is then dropped. Maybe there is some trick to better pack the gooey BM hydroxide cake formed, but for me it was always tedious using easily accessible coagulants/flocculents and filtration (high retention in cake). So while I needed to boil the pot anyway, formate is the easiest method to perform next. And also that is the method type I like, you set it for boiling and let it be for several hours, doing other jobs and Pd just settle to the bottom when you arrive back to it. No further care :)

But I very like your approach to things, elaborating new practices is essential thing to move further. And also reviving old techniques for convenience :) like peroxide for gold dissolution :) As a professional chemist, I cannot agree more.
 
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