PGM Refining

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

huggybear

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2022
Messages
31
Location
Townsville
Hi All,

I have some dental scrap which I am refining. It contains approximately 40% gold, 20% silver, 15% palladium and 2% platinum. The remainder is base metals.

I will be dropping the palladium and platinum as salts using ammonium chloride and chlorine gas, then calcining to form sponges.

My question is: If all reasonable precautions are taken (eg. fume cupboard, PPE), is this process safe?

I have read conflicting arguments about the safety of this process. From what I have read, the most dangerous compound is the platinum salt which can cause respiratory/skin irritation.

All advice/experiences welcome... Thanks!

huggy
 
It seems to be a very polarising topic.

There are quite a few detailed procedures on here without any mention of the dangers.

I know there can be acute symptoms resulting from spills but this is no different to most refining (eg accidental contact with acids).

I guess what I'm asking is: Are there any chronic or long term adverse health effects that may result?

Surely if you can send material off to be refined, the people refining it are able to do so safely?

Thanks,
huggy
 
Unless you swallow salts, the most dangerous are chlorine and nitrogen oxides gases with possible long term lung effects
 
It seems to be a very polarising topic.

There are quite a few detailed procedures on here without any mention of the dangers.

I know there can be acute symptoms resulting from spills but this is no different to most refining (eg accidental contact with acids).

I guess what I'm asking is: Are there any chronic or long term adverse health effects that may result?

Surely if you can send material off to be refined, the people refining it are able to do so safely?

Thanks,
huggy
There are some that get strong and chronic reactions to the salts of PGMs
Former members have died supposedly from long term PGM salt exposure.
According to the consensus of the forum it seems there are no safe levels.

The warnings is usually a modern thing since the society as a whole has become more concerned with safety.

Most reports and procedures in here are quite old and mostly come from research papers where the focus is procedure’s for separating the PGMs not safety.
 
There are some that get strong and chronic reactions to the salts of PGMs
Former members have died supposedly from long term PGM salt exposure.
According to the consensus of the forum it seems there are no safe levels.

The warnings is usually a modern thing since the society as a whole has become more concerned with safety.

Most reports and procedures in here are quite old and mostly come from research papers where the focus is procedure’s for separating the PGMs not safety.
Okay that's pretty full on... not what I was expecting.

Thanks for the advice.

I wonder how commercial refiners are able to do it safely?
 
Safety protocols and safe working conditions.
So going back to my original question: If all reasonable precautions are taken (eg. fume cupboard, PPE), is this process safe?
- The answer is yes?

Unless you swallow salts, the most dangerous are chlorine and nitrogen oxides gases with possible long term lung effects
I haven't had any issues managing Cl and NOx exposure so I assume my lab etiquette/housekeeping standards are acceptable.

I have found an interesting paper titled: TOXICITY OF PLATINUM AND PLATINUM COMPOUNDS (WITH SUMMARIES FOR OTHER PGMs)
- I will read through this and report back with any conclusions.

I aim to implement a permanent procedure for PGM refining that's why I am fully investigating the safety/viability of the process.

Thanks in advance for your responses,
huggy
 
Hi All,

I have some dental scrap which I am refining. It contains approximately 40% gold, 20% silver, 15% palladium and 2% platinum. The remainder is base metals.

I will be dropping the palladium and platinum as salts using ammonium chloride and chlorine gas, then calcining to form sponges.

My question is: If all reasonable precautions are taken (eg. fume cupboard, PPE), is this process safe?

I have read conflicting arguments about the safety of this process. From what I have read, the most dangerous compound is the platinum salt which can cause respiratory/skin irritation.

All advice/experiences welcome... Thanks!

huggy
Are you using AR to dissolve?
 
'Safe' is a subjective term.

There is clearly a risk, if you take all precautions to reduce the risk you are left with a much lower risk. There will however always be a risk.

That goes for companies or individuals. Companies are not required to totally eliminate risk as it is impossible.

As for practical advice I know as much as you. The compounds are toxic. Some people react worse than others. I take precautions such as having a professional lab with fume extraction, ppe, proper waste storage and a lock on the door. (Amung other things) Im yet to have any problems.
 
From Wiki:
Platinosis
is an allergy-like reaction to exposure to soluble salts of platinum.

The symptoms of platinosis may include asthma, dermatitis, dyspnea, conjunctivalvasodilatation, and rhinopharyngitis.

The symptoms are progressive, sometimes taking months to years to appear. Platinosis is usually associated with workers in industries related to platinum production. The effects are permanent.

Halogeno-platinum compounds are among the most potent respiratory and skin sensitisers known, therefore it is vital that exposure via the skin and by breathing contaminated air is carefully controlled.

In practice, the compounds mainly responsible for platinum sensitisation are typically the soluble, ionic, platinum-chloro compounds such as ammonium hexachloroplatinate and tetrachloroplatinate, and hexachloroplatinic acid.

So use a hood, gloves and goggles like for every other procedure. Be especially careful of the salts until they’re converted to metal, particularly when heating/burning them to produce the sponge.
 
Unless you swallow salts, the most dangerous are chlorine and nitrogen oxides gases with possible long term lung effects
Or don´t smear them on your bare skin, touch beakers with contamined gloves, then take the gloves off and you forget to de-contamine all surfaces you touched... It is also very important to be aware of aerosol created when dissolving the alloys, as it is important to do all powder transfers between beakers and storage bottles in the fumehood as dust is ALWAYS created when transfering dry salts.
 
Hi All,

I have some dental scrap which I am refining. It contains approximately 40% gold, 20% silver, 15% palladium and 2% platinum. The remainder is base metals.

I will be dropping the palladium and platinum as salts using ammonium chloride and chlorine gas, then calcining to form sponges.

My question is: If all reasonable precautions are taken (eg. fume cupboard, PPE), is this process safe?

I have read conflicting arguments about the safety of this process. From what I have read, the most dangerous compound is the platinum salt which can cause respiratory/skin irritation.

All advice/experiences welcome... Thanks!

huggy
You need to get your intentions proper priorities. First thing which is important to consider is - if you want to refine and purify the PtPd residue, or you will be happy with PtPd alloy in the end.

From my experience, you really does not want to produce/purify/isolate/filter solid salts of PGMs unless it is strictly necessary to reach your goals. If you can sell the resulting alloy for good dollar, then abandon the separation of PGMs at all. Dropping eg Pt as ammonium hexachloroplatinate is unwanted in broader view, as it needs to be converted back to metal afterwards. Either by means of re-dissolution in AR, reduction with H2 or incineration. One additional step of "contact" with these very harmful salts. Espetially incineration (most commonly used by amateurs of course) - complexes can be sublimed by this procedure, and due to this fact, not only Pt is lost in this process due to evaporation and ultrafine Pt dust escaping, but also you CONTAMINE your workplace with unincinerated Pt salts.

If I were you, and the subjected material does not contain mercury or cadmium - inquart it with more silver (or preferrably copper in this case, as it may sound counterproductive, it has reasons behind) to go below 40% for AuPt - which are insoluble in nitric. Best to the "inQUARTation" ratio, which is 25%.
Then, inquart the resulting alloy in nitric. You will leach out base metals, silver and palladium, as well as tiny bit of platinum. Typically, as palladium content is significant, inquartation takes bit longer time. But it is completely doable, with hour or two of boiling in 50 % nitric in the end.

You obtain mostly Au with tiny bit of Pt as metallic sponge, and nitric leach containing Ag,Pd and trace Pt alongside with base metals.

Gold sponge from inquartation will be processed as usual - AR dissolution, de-noxing, sulfite/SMB/SO2 or even better - FeSO4 precipitation in this case. Traces of Pt in the solution can be cemented using whatever metal desired, and thus creating easy to treat waste stream containing no harmful PGM salts.

Nitric leach - silver is precipitated first using saturated NaCl solution, as it is wasteful to add more acid (HCL), which will need to be neutralized later. After filtering the AgCl, thorough washing with dilute (few %, I use 3% HCL) HCL is needed to leach the traces of Pd out of silver chloride. You are then left with Pd + trace Pt alongside base metals in solution. This will be processed by formate reduction - creating PdPt metal precipitates. These are practically harmless in terms of health hazard. And remaining base metals solution will be treated as regular nitrate waste.
 
So going back to my original question: If all reasonable precautions are taken (eg. fume cupboard, PPE), is this process safe?
- The answer is yes?


I haven't had any issues managing Cl and NOx exposure so I assume my lab etiquette/housekeeping standards are acceptable.

I have found an interesting paper titled: TOXICITY OF PLATINUM AND PLATINUM COMPOUNDS (WITH SUMMARIES FOR OTHER PGMs)
- I will read through this and report back with any conclusions.

I aim to implement a permanent procedure for PGM refining that's why I am fully investigating the safety/viability of the process.

Thanks in advance for your responses,
huggy
To be honest, in the process I suggested and described above, you actually DOES produce PGM salts, but they are in solution, nicely contained, and minimal contact is necessary to be made with them.
Things of concern are outgas from inquartation - as bubbling associated with dissolution ALWAYS create aerosol of that same solution. So it need to be considered and minimized. I do it either by prolonging the way the aerosol need to pass before leaving the vessel (eg filling the beaker only to say 1/4 of the way full, or adding reflux condenser on the top of the apparatus), or simply (and much more efficiently than other options) setting bubbler or anything similar (washbottle etc.) to scrubb the aerosols which come out of the system into the water.

Apart of properly using PPE (gloves, hood, goggles), make sure that you does not touch/contamine more apparatus or places (desk of fumehood, bottles with acids, stannous test bottle etc.) with gloves that you ALREADY wear, which could possibly be contamined with these harmful solutions. This is quite common mistake people made, including myself sometimes.

You happily work in the hood, all PPE in place, feeling safe, happily transfering liquids, heating (touching the buttons of magnetic stirplate with your gloves), filtering, testing with stannous.. - and all you touch is with the SAME gloves you handle harmful solutions.

The ultimate thing that de-mask this error/behaviour is working with silver nitrate solutions :) Because silver nitrate on your skin quickly converts to silver chloride (from chloride salts in your sweat) which is light sensitive and stains your skin brown or even grayish-black upon exposure to light. And I can assure you, that if you aren´t fully aware of what I said above, your hands will have some brownish marks day after finishing silver batch :) my colleagues even had theyre forheads stained :D as they wiped their sweat with hand, which handled beakers or buckets..Buchner funnels, which were accidentally touched with gloves with AgNO3 residues. Even if you think about it, fully aware, taking caution, it can happen, as we, people, do make mistakes.

Key is to mitigate them as much as possible. Fact is, one or two exposures to very very little ammounts of Pt salts probably does not do anything terribly bad regarding your health. At least, if you aren´t that "fortunate" one, who will be very sensitive. Important is to reduce the exposure to the lowest minimum possible. Because with these compounds, effect is cumullative and unfortunately, irreversible. Even gloves cannot assure you nothing will penetrate through them, they only gave you time to put them off :)

Take it seriously, but does not let these warnings to scare you too much - because if you are fully aware of possible bad outcomes, you can do maximum to mitigate the risk. Plan all processes in advance, think about worst-case scenarios to be prepared for possible accidents, use catchpan or any vessel for the case of spill etc... And you will be okay :)

It comes with practice. If someone is used to thorough lab-safety practice, he can responsibly work even with phosgene, carbonyls, or osmates - and will be perfectly fine. But someone jumps head first to the first refining venture in his life - catalytic converters... :D And usually it does not work well at all. With possible poisonings and all other bad things associated. I advise anyone who want to work with PGMs to build up confidence and practice with gold and silver first. It has reasons :)

Be safe.
orvi
 
Are you using AR to dissolve?
Yes.

Thanks speed, Liquidau and especially orvi for your in depth responses.

As you have highlighted, the key is preparedness.

Ideally, I was hoping to refine Pt and Pd to a high purity so that I can use them in jewelry alloys. I am quite confident that I can do it safely however over long periods of time, accidents are bound to happen. Given the hazardous nature of the compounds I am reconsidering my plan.
 
Separate PGM's or keep as an alloy...... that's for each person to decide based on there skills and understanding of the process. I personally don't like handling PGM's anymore than necessary.

As for myself, I keep everything as a mixed PGM black powder. I cement on zinc or use formic acid if base metals are involved. Rinse the powders until a neutral PH, dry the powder and put in sealed dram bottles. One day I'll look for a buyer when I have enough worthy of someone's time.

If you decide to refine them to use in jewelry, it's not recommended to use carbon base fuels to melt the sponge. It will make the metal brittle and probably crack when shaping the jewelry.
 
Yes.

Thanks speed, Liquidau and especially orvi for your in depth responses.

As you have highlighted, the key is preparedness.

Ideally, I was hoping to refine Pt and Pd to a high purity so that I can use them in jewelry alloys. I am quite confident that I can do it safely however over long periods of time, accidents are bound to happen. Given the hazardous nature of the compounds I am reconsidering my plan.
Be aware that purity is not only concern when making Pd jewellery alloys. Pd is notoriously hard to melt right, to be able to use it in jewellery. There are whole threads regarding this. With Pd, you will obtain foamy melt practically by any melting method and be prepared for metal spitting bits out due to de-sorption of gasses. Only certain way how to do it is with vacuum furnance.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top