Risks and safety issues (my workshop and hood)

[4metals]

Straight up and out will be your best bet. The taller the better but 2 meters over the roof is a good start.

 

[tortuga09]

Bonjour.
Sur les premières photos en façade, nous voyons un truc bleu, c'est un refroidisseur à eau avec un captage d'aire d’extérieur ,

Il faudrait que l'évacuation de votre traitement soit loin de ce refroidisseur à mon simple avis.

Hello. On from the first photos in facade, we see a blue thing, it is a cooler with water with a harnessing of area of outside,

Would the evacuation of your treatment has to be far from this cooler for my simple opinion.

 

[4metals]

Hello. On from the first photos in facade, we see a blue thing, it is a cooler with water with a harnessing of area of outside,
Would the evacuation of your treatment has to be far from this cooler for my simple opinion.

Yes this is a cooling device or some method of conditioning (cooling) the air in his shop. It is one of the reasons we suggested he exhaust his hood straight up and through the roof.

 

[saadat68]

Hi
Thanks all especially 4metals
I don't want use this cooler also I change my hood design. I use another cooler for blower of my hood. It is 800 CFM and cost just 30$

http://uupload.ir/files/sbu_968532jk.jpg
http://uupload.ir/files/6ex1_5852524f.jpg
http://uupload.ir/files/fwan_dfghjk.jpg
http://uupload.ir/files/uvyv_fdg868.jpg



My hood: I use 2 pipes (each one 12.5 cm) instead of one pipe, 800 cfm blower and 4metals design

 

[Rougemillenial]

The fume hood design you have is rather unusual but it should work. As for using nitric acid to refine silver, I recommend supplementing it with sulfuric acid and/or hydrogen peroxide if you can access it as it's usually much cheaper than pure nitric and/or reduce the fumes substantially depending if you use peroxide or not. The resulting silver sulfate is soluble in water and the nitric acid that's regenerated can go back and dissolve more silver so instead of using 1.47 liters of commercial grade (68%) nitric acid to dissolve 1300 grams of silver, you end up needing less than 561 ml of nitric. the nitrogen oxides can easily be bubbled through water by hooking up an aquarium pump to the reaction vessel and make nitric acid while allowing little to escape. also keeping the acid dilute and cool makes it more efficient and controlled though you need good glassware to do that i.e. German made Pyrex. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLczpPCqV8&list=PLKhDkilF5o69PqPy-oMCCSgEc7JYqDVTZ&index=8[/youtube]. I wish you luck and hope you get your operation off the ground.

 

[saadat68]

Thanks for your suggestion
In this method can I use scrubber to recycle nitric acid ?

 

[g_axelsson]

The fume hood design you have is rather unusual but it should work. As for using nitric acid to refine silver, I recommend supplementing it with sulfuric acid and/or hydrogen peroxide if you can access it as it's usually much cheaper than pure nitric and/or reduce the fumes substantially depending if you use peroxide or not. The resulting silver sulfate is soluble in water and the nitric acid that's regenerated can go back and dissolve more silver so instead of using 1.47 liters of commercial grade (68%) nitric acid to dissolve 1300 grams of silver, you end up needing less than 561 ml of nitric. the nitrogen oxides can easily be bubbled through water by hooking up an aquarium pump to the reaction vessel and make nitric acid while allowing little to escape. also keeping the acid dilute and cool makes it more efficient and controlled though you need good glassware to do that i.e. German made Pyrex. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLczpPCqV8&list=PLKhDkilF5o69PqPy-oMCCSgEc7JYqDVTZ&index=8[/youtube]. I wish you luck and hope you get your operation off the ground.

Another proof of the theoretical nature of Rougemillenials posts. Yes, silver sulfate is considered soluble in water but not to a large extent. Mixing sulfuric acid and silver in solution isn't recommended for refining.

Mixing sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide is absolutely not recommended, it is called piranha solution and eats flesh and any organic substance with vengeance.

Do not follow Rougemillenials post, at least not until checked with other sources first.
Lou stated "Rougemillenial is not a chemist!", I would like to add to that and say that he isn't a physicist either and I'm pretty sure that he isn't a refiner either. At this stage I'm starting to suspect that he is trolling or just searching for attention.

Göran

 

[Rougemillenial]

The fume hood design you have is rather unusual but it should work. As for using nitric acid to refine silver, I recommend supplementing it with sulfuric acid and/or hydrogen peroxide if you can access it as it's usually much cheaper than pure nitric and/or reduce the fumes substantially depending if you use peroxide or not. The resulting silver sulfate is soluble in water and the nitric acid that's regenerated can go back and dissolve more silver so instead of using 1.47 liters of commercial grade (68%) nitric acid to dissolve 1300 grams of silver, you end up needing less than 561 ml of nitric. the nitrogen oxides can easily be bubbled through water by hooking up an aquarium pump to the reaction vessel and make nitric acid while allowing little to escape. also keeping the acid dilute and cool makes it more efficient and controlled though you need good glassware to do that i.e. German made Pyrex. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLczpPCqV8&list=PLKhDkilF5o69PqPy-oMCCSgEc7JYqDVTZ&index=8[/youtube]. I wish you luck and hope you get your operation off the ground.

Another proof of the theoretical nature of Rougemillenials posts. Yes, silver sulfate is considered soluble in water but not to a large extent. Mixing sulfuric acid and silver in solution isn't recommended for refining.

Mixing sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide is absolutely not recommended, it is called piranha solution and eats flesh and any organic substance with vengeance.

Do not follow Rougemillenials post, at least not until checked with other sources first.
Lou stated "Rougemillenial is not a chemist!", I would like to add to that and say that he isn't a physicist either and I'm pretty sure that he isn't a refiner either. At this stage I'm starting to suspect that he is trolling or just searching for attention.

Göran

First off, piranha acid is favored in anhydrous conditions as it's in equilibrium with water. This particular mixture is diluted with water thus the equilibrium is shifted to the formation of sulfuric acid and peroxide. Yes, silver sulfate isn't as soluble as silver nitrate, but a hot solution of dilute acids should be able to keep the silver in solution.

I apologize for my mistake on the suggestion of using sulfuric acid or/and peroxide on lack of clarification. If I meant concentrated sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide, I simply would've said piranha solution.

I am not trolling. I am actually a chemist, though an amateur yet to get a degree. I simply want to share ideas. They are to be considered, not executed on by default. If you have access to a large amount of pure nitric, go with that as it's much easier than making it in-situ. I was mainly concerned about the fumes and potential ways to reduce the amount as I don't want to see other refiners get into trouble

 

[solar_plasma]

Whatever you call it, H2SO4 with H2O2 even dilluted is extremely aggressive, reacts very exotherm and tends to spout or to get out of control easily. Hard to compare, but I would say by far more than AR.

I will not tell you to read Hoke and the forum basics, folks that behave like you come and go, giving proof that one can't fill a glass that's already full. But you can prove me to be wrong this time, so far you don't.

Once you have read Hoke and only the most recommended posts, you will understand, like most of us did, that you just don't know anything or almost anything. Once you will have understood this, you will get more careful what you write and how you write. Then your postings will become more gain than pain.

 

[snoman701]

The fume hood design you have is rather unusual but it should work. As for using nitric acid to refine silver, I recommend supplementing it with sulfuric acid and/or hydrogen peroxide if you can access it as it's usually much cheaper than pure nitric and/or reduce the fumes substantially depending if you use peroxide or not. The resulting silver sulfate is soluble in water and the nitric acid that's regenerated can go back and dissolve more silver so instead of using 1.47 liters of commercial grade (68%) nitric acid to dissolve 1300 grams of silver, you end up needing less than 561 ml of nitric. the nitrogen oxides can easily be bubbled through water by hooking up an aquarium pump to the reaction vessel and make nitric acid while allowing little to escape. also keeping the acid dilute and cool makes it more efficient and controlled though you need good glassware to do that i.e. German made Pyrex. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLczpPCqV8&list=PLKhDkilF5o69PqPy-oMCCSgEc7JYqDVTZ&index=8[/youtube]. I wish you luck and hope you get your operation off the ground.

Another proof of the theoretical nature of Rougemillenials posts. Yes, silver sulfate is considered soluble in water but not to a large extent. Mixing sulfuric acid and silver in solution isn't recommended for refining.

Mixing sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide is absolutely not recommended, it is called piranha solution and eats flesh and any organic substance with vengeance.

Do not follow Rougemillenials post, at least not until checked with other sources first.
Lou stated "Rougemillenial is not a chemist!", I would like to add to that and say that he isn't a physicist either and I'm pretty sure that he isn't a refiner either. At this stage I'm starting to suspect that he is trolling or just searching for attention.

Göran

First off, piranha acid is favored in anhydrous conditions as it's in equilibrium with water. This particular mixture is diluted with water thus the equilibrium is shifted to the formation of sulfuric acid and peroxide. Yes, silver sulfate isn't as soluble as silver nitrate, but a hot solution of dilute acids should be able to keep the silver in solution.

I apologize for my mistake on the suggestion of using sulfuric acid or/and peroxide on lack of clarification. If I meant concentrated sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide, I simply would've said piranha solution.

I am not trolling. I am actually a chemist, though an amateur yet to get a degree. I simply want to share ideas. They are to be considered, not executed on by default. If you have access to a large amount of pure nitric, go with that as it's much easier than making it in-situ. I was mainly concerned about the fumes and potential ways to reduce the amount as I don't want to see other refiners get into trouble

I'm sorry, but this advice is careless at best. This is a deadly combination that should only be used by the most experienced of people in very controlled environments.

I am new myself, but this post is asinine. I just posted about piranha solutions in things to be avoided.

This advice is reckless.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Rougemillenial]

The fume hood design you have is rather unusual but it should work. As for using nitric acid to refine silver, I recommend supplementing it with sulfuric acid and/or hydrogen peroxide if you can access it as it's usually much cheaper than pure nitric and/or reduce the fumes substantially depending if you use peroxide or not. The resulting silver sulfate is soluble in water and the nitric acid that's regenerated can go back and dissolve more silver so instead of using 1.47 liters of commercial grade (68%) nitric acid to dissolve 1300 grams of silver, you end up needing less than 561 ml of nitric. the nitrogen oxides can easily be bubbled through water by hooking up an aquarium pump to the reaction vessel and make nitric acid while allowing little to escape. also keeping the acid dilute and cool makes it more efficient and controlled though you need good glassware to do that i.e. German made Pyrex. [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeLczpPCqV8&list=PLKhDkilF5o69PqPy-oMCCSgEc7JYqDVTZ&index=8[/youtube]. I wish you luck and hope you get your operation off the ground.

Another proof of the theoretical nature of Rougemillenials posts. Yes, silver sulfate is considered soluble in water but not to a large extent. Mixing sulfuric acid and silver in solution isn't recommended for refining.

Mixing sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide is absolutely not recommended, it is called piranha solution and eats flesh and any organic substance with vengeance.

Do not follow Rougemillenials post, at least not until checked with other sources first.
Lou stated "Rougemillenial is not a chemist!", I would like to add to that and say that he isn't a physicist either and I'm pretty sure that he isn't a refiner either. At this stage I'm starting to suspect that he is trolling or just searching for attention.

Göran

First off, piranha acid is favored in anhydrous conditions as it's in equilibrium with water. This particular mixture is diluted with water thus the equilibrium is shifted to the formation of sulfuric acid and peroxide. Yes, silver sulfate isn't as soluble as silver nitrate, but a hot solution of dilute acids should be able to keep the silver in solution.

I apologize for my mistake on the suggestion of using sulfuric acid or/and peroxide on lack of clarification. If I meant concentrated sulfuric acid and hydrogen peroxide, I simply would've said piranha solution.

I am not trolling. I am actually a chemist, though an amateur yet to get a degree. I simply want to share ideas. They are to be considered, not executed on by default. If you have access to a large amount of pure nitric, go with that as it's much easier than making it in-situ. I was mainly concerned about the fumes and potential ways to reduce the amount as I don't want to see other refiners get into trouble

I'm sorry, but this advice is careless at best. This is a deadly combination that should only be used by the most experienced of people in very controlled environments.

I am new myself, but this post is asinine. I just posted about piranha solutions in things to be avoided.

This advice is reckless.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok, I apologize. Maybe the peroxide can be used in the scrubber instead to capture the fumes more effectively. Granted, I've actually tried this mixture before and it actually worked, maybe because I have a very ghastly mixture of metals instead of mainly PM's. I've recently tested a silver dime into some of my acid/nitrate/peroxide mix and gently heated it then put a glowing splint into the air above the reaction to indicate for oxygen from decomposing peroxide. Needless to say, It was positive for decomposition. I admit that the peroxide idea was a mistake on my part. I don't work with concentrated nitric acid so I just make crude nitric acid by simply mixing together potassium nitrate and sulfuric acid and using that as is to dissolve the silver thus why I suggested sulfuric acid. It was something I tried. I don't want to end up unintentionally make a bad suggestion. Interesting how I try to avoid a problem from arising but end up making a bigger one. :shock: I did drop a piece of paper in and I suspect nitrocellulose formed as it became a plastic like material that burned very quickly when taken out and dried. It didn't dissolve in the mix so enough water must have been present to prevent piranha from forming. Or something else such as metal ions in the crude acid was inhibiting formation of the peroxymonosulfuricacid H2SO5

 

[4metals]

Rogue,

As Butcher so eloquently warned you on another thread you are on thin ice. And as you did before you apologize and then re-emphasize a risky method.

Granted, I've actually tried this mixture before and it actually worked,

I'm sure there are Marines who fell out of planes without parachutes and survived too, but it isn't something they would recommend.

An apology followed by a "yeah but....." isn't acceptable. Butcher is giving you the benefit of the doubt here because he senses you are an intelligent man who may, at some point in the future contribute to this forum. But you should be in learning mode now, not exaggerating or playing my beakers bigger than your beaker. This is a second friendly warning, don't be counting on too many more.

 

[Rougemillenial]

Rogue,

As Butcher so eloquently warned you on another thread you are on thin ice. And as you did before you apologize and then re-emphasize a risky method.

Granted, I've actually tried this mixture before and it actually worked,

I'm sure there are Marines who fell out of planes without parachutes and survived too, but it isn't something they would recommend.

An apology followed by a "yeah but....." isn't acceptable. Butcher is giving you the benefit of the doubt here because he senses you are an intelligent man who may, at some point in the future contribute to this forum. But you should be in learning mode now, not exaggerating or playing my beakers bigger than your beaker. This is a second friendly warning, don't be counting on too many more.

I didn't intend to take away the sincerity of my apology. My intention was to state why I suggested it in the first place while apologizing to you guys for unintentionally corrupting the thread. I was simply explaining why I was under the impression that it would work and following it up with why my findings might have been skewed. The wording of my response seemed to imply a level of insincerity which couldn't be any further from the true intention of the response .

 

[snoman701]

When I was 21 or so, I was quite the hot shot engineering student. I went to a machinist who made something up for me. He made it wrong, but I had used dimensions that were not really acceptable in the trade.

What he said to me was simple, and has stuck with me. "You don't know jack shoot". Then he spit tobacco juice, which made it all the more dramatic. He made me the right size bushings....then I went back to the shop and the guys laughed their butts off at me.

It was only recently that I lost touch with this machinist. He was an amazing resource as I grew in my education. He would even loan me tools at times, which left me dumbfounded at the time. He's a great guy that basically told me to shut up and listen. I've done that since, and it's amazing what you can learn when you ask, instead of tell.


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[butcher]

I know I don't know jack. In fact many times I even forget his name,

Every day I find out about more things I did not know, Funny when I know I do not know, I get a tad smarter because I want to know. and that drives me to find out.
Magic is in the journey and discovery.

It is not what I know that is exciting to me.
It is the realization of what I do not know that is the driving force that fills my blood with a hungry thirst for understanding, the driven force that powers my deep drive to find answers to the mystery that will constantly keep me working hard for its subtle principles and workings.

I can sit on my couch and ask someone a question but I know I can only get a very small glimpse through a smokey cloud of understanding from even the best possible answer, which could only bring more questions to my mind.

I also know a lot of tidbits of information that if I am not careful can lead me to wrong conclusions, (thinking with a little knowledge) and no understanding I find gets me into messes all the time, a little of what I think I know, can show how much I really do not know.

Sometimes it is not what we know but how much we understand and can see where to go.

Enough rambling I should be sleeping instead of going on with nonsense.