Barren Realms 007 said:
IMHO this thread should be locked as it serves no purpose in refining other than giving oponions.
Well Barren, I respect your opinion that this discussion serves no purpose in refining. As a line item I would have to agree with that statement. However at the same time I am of the opinion that the subject of security is very hard to omit from refining. I would think that having it under the category of safety is better than some other category such as chat. After all, proper handling and disposal of wastes is a safety issue, yet serves no purpose directly in the refining of precious metals. It is however necessary to consider what level of caution must be exercised in the safe and legal handling of these wastes, that will be very different depending on your operation.
Perhaps some should read the OP's original question in order to understand my reply.
We have a rather diversified membership here, all with different types or levels of involvement with precious metals. Depending on the materials they handle, how they are processed or not, and how they are bought and sold, will largely determine what security measures might need to be considered.
Before I go further I should say that I am a small operator in refining, but I pay my bills with it. Having said that, I personally know small operators in this business that have had to deal with home invasion by a group of armed men, those that have been on the bad end of an armed robbery when buying or selling to/from private individuals, and others that have had their facilities broken into and vandalized as well as robbed.
Talking about different business models for a moment.
Probably the lowest level of concern would be someone buying and then reselling electronic scrap. There is threat of theft, but this type of material is not a primary target. Mainly because it is bulky and is not very liquid as far as getting a cash payment for it unless the thief is already knowledgeable and engaged in this business.
The next level would be your electronic scrap buyer that sells the bulk of their material as is, but high-grades it by cherry picking the ram, cpus, and fingers. If they then refine the high-graded items they will have on hand refined precious metals that are compact and relatively easy to liquidate for cash, thus more prone to being a theft target.
Then you have the small scale (no brick and mortar retail location) scrap karat gold and sterling buyer. This is very hard to do without advertizing what you do and how to find you. It is possibly the hardest level to stay safe and secure at, as a small level buyer. Even if you can get all of your customers to accept payment by check, others may assume you must have a fair quantity of cash on your person. Despite the cash detail, you are still leaving with a substantial compact value in gold or silver scrap that is easily liquidated by a thief for cash.
Once you move beyond that level you start to have the budget (due to volume) to have a brick and mortar establishment with electric buzzers and locks for entry such as most pawn shops these days. Beyond that, depending on location an armed full-time security staff may be hired to walk the floor (I have been in pawn shops that always have 1 or 2 very visibly armed employees who's sole job is to walk the floor. At this level and more commonly above it, most do not wish to comment publicly as to what steps they have taken with security, as it could compromise the security they have in place.
There are a few reasons why this became a such a long post on my part. First is that we are a forum that is predominately made up of people that are new to dealing with precious metals. As such they need to think about what level of involvement they wish to engage in and the different levels of risk that they may encounter as to theft and personal safety, not to mention the safety and security of their families if they do this from their home (as the majority here do).
Perhaps my greatest fear (the new home refiner) is the guy/gal that has become perhaps jaded by gold and riches in a bad economy. Only wishing to make a supplemental or replacement primary income to care for their family, but they have not given due thought to the unintended risks to those same family members they wish to support and protect.
Now Barren has made a very valid point that some may go out and buy a gun to carry and feel a false sense of security. To give a bit of perspective on this I have been shot at more times than I like to remember but only hit once (high strung and nervous people are terrible marksmen). Remember that fact, and take into consideration your temperament and composure under stress before you consider carrying a gun. I have also had several occasions that the law would have said beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had just cause to use lethal force, yet I have always managed to avoid doing so. Carrying a gun does more harm than good for a fair percentage of the population if they are not of the right mindset, temperament, and background. So part of the reason I feel this is an important topic is that people need to think about what risks they are willing to take, and understand what options they have open to them “other” than guns.
Security considerations for most here is wholly dependent upon what contact they are willing to have with the public while involved with precious metals. Many upon reflection and thought may wish to limit that contact.
“I” (one mans opinion) think that it is in the interest of the general forum membership that there is a place to discuss their safety concerns as long as it relates to refining, personal safety from theft and injury included. I cannot see how someone can deal in precious metal scrap or refined metals yet never have had the occasion where they felt the need to consider security on some level. Even base metal scrap yards are considering these things and taking action in this economy. In fact I would propose to Noxx that if there is sufficient interest in this topic of conversation that perhaps a separate category should be created on the forum that deals with “security” in working in this business verses the “safety” aspects from a chemical standpoint alone. There are many ways one can do business as usual with precious metals, yet limit their exposure to risk. I would enjoy hearing from others how they have addressed these concerns.
In regards to the request that this thread be locked. I had at first hesitated to further reply to this thread at all, let alone in my typical fashion, as I found myself with a conflict of interests since I have been made a moderator recently. For that reason I gave the subject further thought than typical of me before saying another word. After some consideration I felt it would be disingenuous of me to alter my posting behavior considering my comment “Do not expect any differences from me, I am still the same guy. The only difference is an extra set of eyes that can address gross misconduct or spam before it has a chance to become an unneeded distraction”. Read here if you wish the context of my comments http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=8673
Anyone that has been here for awhile knows that I am prone to long posts like this if I feel strongly enough about something. In order to maintain my ability to speak my mind from a personal viewpoint I will state clearly that if even one other moderator feels that this topic is not in keeping with the forum's purpose and interests, whether said publicly or privately to me, I will personally lock this thread deleting this post of mine in the process.
In closing I think that most here have had thoughts of security to some degree at one time or another. To those here that have no concerns as to security, there is no harm in letting those that do wish to discuss these issues to do so. There may be some here that wish to hear suggestions from others that will limit their exposure to unneeded risk. I see no harm in allowing it without your participation if you are uninterested.