SS bowl silver cell problems

[GotTheBug]

I carry two neodims from a hard drive in the car at all times, along with a small magnifying glass (never know what you'll run across, recently found a 3.4 ounce sterling bowl in a thrift shop for 99 cents). I use the neodim magnets any time I'm checking stainless. Last one was a good bowl from Home Goods for around 10 bucks.

 

[goldsilverpro]

I was always under the impression that 304 is preferable to 316 for nitric usage, due to the Mo content in 316. I believe the nitric drums are 304.

 

[Lou]

yes a magnet sticks to the bowl. Not very well but it is slightly attracted to it.

If you're using a rare earth magnet, that may not be the problem. All of the 300 series stainless alloys that have been cold worked will be slightly magnetic. If you find an ALNICO magnet sticks, yeah, it's the wrong grade of stainless.

It is most desirable that you use a bowl made of one of the 300 series alloys. While Lou made mention of 304L, assuming you can find one, 316L would be even better, as it offers a greater chemical resistance, although 304 would serve perfectly well. 304 or 316 (without the L) will serve well, too, unless you expect to do some welding on the vessel. The L indicates a lower carbon content, which is already VERY low without the designation.

Some stainless items display the alloy from which they are made. Look underneath to see if you see any numbers.

Harold

Actually, 304L is the best stainless for the use of nitrates and nitric acid.
316 and other stainless with greater levels of molybdenum and/or columbium more appropriate for chloride/sulfate-containing contact; the low carbon varieties for avoiding crevice corrosion.

 

[M6MR&R]

I know what the point of a cell is and that's why I'm trying to give you guys every experience I've had with the materials I have so I can get proper input. I am trying to gain a better understanding of what materials and why things happen. By me saying " pretty bars" I just mean they look nice. I know they may not be up to standard or the right purity. I would never ask anyone how to get 50 oz out of cement. I already know how to do that. Lol.. Jk

I will try a different magnet I was using a rare earth magnet./weaker magnet was barely attracted. Very weak pull

I will also try a different stainless vessel.

I'm also waiting on the proper power supply.

I sure hope this will correct the problem. I really want to thank everyone that helped. I will post pictures once I get everything up and running again.

 

[Palladium]

I'm betting power supply!

 

[Harold_V]

Actually, 304L is the best stainless for the use of nitrates and nitric acid.
316 and other stainless with greater levels of molybdenum and/or columbium more appropriate for chloride/sulfate-containing contact; the low carbon varieties for avoiding crevice corrosion.

Thanks, Lou. I was unaware of the fact that moly was troublesome.

According to Jorgensen's Handbook, molybdenum is added for greater chemical resistance at elevated temperatures.

Quoting from Page 14, Section I (1988)

Types 316 and 317 are more resistant to atmospheric and general corrosive conditions than any of the other standard stainless steels. They have good resistance to the corrosive effects of sulphates, phosphates and other salts as well as the reducing acids such as sulphuric, sulphurous and phosphoric. These grades are less susceptible to pitting in the applications where acetic acid vapors or solutions of chlorides, bromides, or iodides are encountered.

The 300 series alloys are subject to intergranular corrosion when subjected to temperatures between 800° F and 1,500° F. By reducing carbon content (which is already quite low), the corrosion is controlled, thus the recommendation to use the L alloys.


Harold

 

[Lou]

Molybdenum itself dissolves in nitric acid to give molybdate, a very troublesome anion. Sulfuric acid hastens the process.

 

[rickbb]

If you need to buy at your local big box home store, according to Wikipedia type 304 will most likely be marked as 18/8 stainless and 316 marked 18/10.


"Stainless steels are also classified by their crystalline structure:

Austenitic, or 200 and 300 series, stainless steels have an austenitic crystalline structure, which is a face-centered cubic crystal structure. Austenite steels make up over 70% of total stainless steel production. They contain a maximum of 0.15% carbon, a minimum of 16% chromium and sufficient nickel and/or manganese to retain an austenitic structure at all temperatures from the cryogenic region to the melting point of the alloy.

200 Series—austenitic chromium-nickel-manganese alloys. Type 201 is hardenable through cold working; Type 202 is a general purpose stainless steel. Decreasing nickel content and increasing manganese results in weak corrosion resistance.[24]

300 Series—The most widely used austenite steel is the 304, also known as 18/8 for its composition of 18% chromium and 8% nickel.[25] 304 may be referred to as A2 stainless (not to be confused with A2 grade steel, also named Tool steel, a steel). The second most common austenite steel is the 316 grade, also called marine grade stainless, used primarily for its increased resistance to corrosion. A typical composition of 18% chromium and 10% nickel, commonly known as 18/10 stainless, is often used in cutlery and high-quality cookware."

 

[necromancer]

the betty crocker SS bowl it has no markings but is very thick.
i think i paid about $8.00 - $12.00 for it.

 

[M6MR&R]

I just wanted to tell everyone thank you so much. The information I recieved will help me for years to come. I absolutely love recovery and refining precious metals as I suspect much of you do as well. I know you guys have a wealth of knowledge that I could only hope to learn a small portion of if I continue doing this for the next 20 years. This forum is a place that has more information than any one person could absorb in a lifetime. I am glad that I posted a problem I was having and I recieved help and explanation without backlash for not knowing or being green as many other forums do. I understand that it takes hard work and research to get to where you guys are and people that are looking for the EAsY way are frustrating to deal with. I don't want you to do the work for me. I just appreciate an arrow pointinge to the vicinity because I want to learn on my own. If you just hand it to me I will learn nothing.

Source of problem: power supply


I finally recieved my rectifier!! I hooked it up and it is starting to produce the crystals I normally see. I just used the same bowl that I was using before as an experiment to see if it was the bowl. It is not. Although I believe I need to use better materials the $7 bowl from Walmart was not the problem. Even though it wasn't the problem I going to upgrade to better material. Thanks to you guys I can look for something that will work much better than what I'm using.



Once again. Thank you all for the valuable information you shared


M6
Michael

 

[necromancer]

it wasn't the walmart bowl.... darn -2 points for me :shock:

 

[Palladium]

I use right off the shelf Wal-Mart bowls also. The reason i knew it was the power supply was the steel wool silver it produced. I have a customer who loves the stuff. This is a sign of low amperage and high voltage. The higher voltage causes the crystals to stretch out reaching toward the anode. You can use higher voltages at times when running your cell, but you current density must not drop. This can also be exhibited buy a smaller than normal cathode or a restriction in the anode bag that is stopped up and needs to be changed. I've totally re engineered the silver cell design and i am working on a prototype that is both self cleaning and allows for the ALMOST precise control of crystal size without sacrifice to production. The prototype is for micron silver production, but will also serve as a typical silver cell would.

 

[necromancer]

11 Quart, 18/8 SS steam table soup pot.
it was in the scrap pile at the scrap yard. it was brand new, still in the original bag.
i have had this for about 3 months, it's a bit big for my needs.



http://www.kitcherama.com/one/product.php?product_id=854&cat=68&sub=321&sub1=13

 

[GotTheBug]

Now that raises the question, probably specifically to Palladium, if I use a very low voltage, but very high amperage, power source, should I not get very fine silver particles? The little beast I built runs 5 volts and almost 200 amps on "full throttle".

Thanks,
Paul.

 

[Palladium]

Small crystals are a function of the design for my new cell, not the rule. In a fixed cathode system i'm afraid your stuck with denser crystal growth unregulated.

 

[eaglewings35]

I just wanted to tell everyone thank you so much. The information I recieved will help me for years to come. I absolutely love recovery and refining precious metals as I suspect much of you do as well. I know you guys have a wealth of knowledge that I could only hope to learn a small portion of if I continue doing this for the next 20 years. This forum is a place that has more information than any one person could absorb in a lifetime. I am glad that I posted a problem I was having and I recieved help and explanation without backlash for not knowing or being green as many other forums do. I understand that it takes hard work and research to get to where you guys are and people that are looking for the EAsY way are frustrating to deal with. I don't want you to do the work for me. I just appreciate an arrow pointinge to the vicinity because I want to learn on my own. If you just hand it to me I will learn nothing.

Source of problem: power supply

I finally recieved my rectifier!! I hooked it up and it is starting to produce the crystals I normally see. I just used the same bowl that I was using before as an experiment to see if it was the bowl. It is not. Although I believe I need to use better materials the $7 bowl from Walmart was not the problem. Even though it wasn't the problem I going to upgrade to better material. Thanks to you guys I can look for something that will work much better than what I'm using.



Once again. Thank you all for the valuable information you shared


M6Michael

This person's name is Michael Montoya, and I strongly advise anyone and everyone from doing business with him. His company name is M6 Metal Refining and Recovery. He stole both gold and silver from me. I have reported him to this forum and to the authorities in his home town. I printed off information and submitted it to the District Attorney. The have launched a full investigation. Beware of this crook!!!