Unusual scrap, worth refining I assume?

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whitewlf

whitewlf

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2024
Messages
9
Location
Chicago
Hi,

Totally new forum member here. First post. I joined because I've inherited some pretty interesting scrap. See the images below. This is 8.5lbs of electrodes, that were used for precious metals electroplating at Jostens in the 70s and 80s, when my father was one of their master artisans. He always said these should contain a lot of gold. Maybe he said silver too, I honestly don't remember. I know they at least contain a lot of nickel.

Anyway, I want to finally find out, if practical. But I'm not a chemist or refiner. I briefly entertained breaking them up to fine powder in a ball mill I have (I do lapidary work), and then chemically processing them to at least get rid of the non-gold. But I talked to chemists about it and the answer I received was a resounding "You won't recover enough to be worth the time and materials. And also you will almost certainly die." So that seems like a no-go. But then I discovered this forum. Any advice? I'm happy to send people samples, or even the whole thing, if someone wants to process it and split the results.

Thanks!

IMG_20240101_155807103.jpg
IMG_20240101_155820925.jpg
 
whitewlf said:
Hi,

Totally new forum member here. First post. I joined because I've inherited some pretty interesting scrap. See the images below. This is 8.5lbs of electrodes, that were used for precious metals electroplating at Jostens in the 70s and 80s, when my father was one of their master artisans. He always said these should contain a lot of gold. Maybe he said silver too, I honestly don't remember. I know they at least contain a lot of nickel.

Anyway, I want to finally find out, if practical. But I'm not a chemist or refiner. I briefly entertained breaking them up to fine powder in a ball mill I have (I do lapidary work), and then chemically processing them to at least get rid of the non-gold. But I talked to chemists about it and the answer I received was a resounding "You won't recover enough to be worth the time and materials. And also you will almost certainly die." So that seems like a no-go. But then I discovered this forum. Any advice? I'm happy to send people samples, or even the whole thing, if someone wants to process it and split the results.

Thanks!

View attachment 60961
View attachment 60962
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Welcome to us.

I'm not entirely sure your first approach to grind it up, was a sound decision.
There are ways to either strip the Gold from the surface or dissolve what ever is under the Gold plating.
Anyway since it is done you can let it soak in HCl for a while and filter out the solids.
Then you can dissolve a few grains of the solids in HCl and Bleach before testing it with Stannous to see if there are some Gold in it.

Her is for your studies.
We ask our new members to do 3 things.
1. Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
2. Then read the safety section of the forum: Safety
3. And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste

Suggested reading: The Library

https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/
 
Oh, I haven't ground anything up yet. Everything is still in the shape it's in the pictures. That was just the start of my proposal that the chemists said was dumb. :)
 
To me they look like the contact points from barrel plating operations often called danglers. These points receive many layers of electroplating in their daily use. They pose a difficulty for refiners because they have all these layers and some of them are impenetrable by refining acids.

The way to proceed with this material would be to melt it into shot. That would make it all homogeneous and allow acid to penetrate. But since you say it is high in nickel (which has a high melting point) you may need to add copper.

Personally I do not think your thought to crush them is a bad idea, if you can get them to the point of being a powder, where the acid can be more effective, they could be refined. If the tumbling only results in smaller chunks your problem still remains.

Bottom line, dangler material from electroplating that plated gold and silver can be quite valuable.
 
I agree with 4metals dangler material can contain considerable values, I refined similar material several times and used AR if I remember correctly.
 
nickvc said:
I refined similar material several times and used AR if I remember correctly.
Click to expand...
Yes aqua regia is the acid of choice if the Silver is low enough and the pre treatment allows penetration.

In the late ‘70’s I ran a large electroplating shop and we plated a lot of pieces on wire hanging from hooks. The hooks built up with layers of gold and silver. I separated the Silver use hooks from the Gold use hooks to make refining simpler.
 
Yeah, no clue if there are different "types" of wires here. They've all been in one bucket for decades. Almost of all of them have the same grey metal look, though some, like the ones in the close-up, have a more bronze-like color, depending on the light. And there's one very different looking one, not pictured, that is unambiguously bright gold colored. Who knows what's under the layers though.
 
This is what a plating rack looks like, or what one type looks like, the hooks on these racks are what I think you have. Although they are not only shaped like hooks, there are sometimes spring shaped contacts and many shapes made to accomodate the pieces being plated. E176E962-3FA0-4CD3-B13D-6E4AC916E7CA.jpeg
The most informative piece of information comes from your Dad, where he said they were from the electroplating shop and they contained gold. I believe after so many years, the color of the surface means little but your Dad's description is telling.
 
Thanks for all the info! I'm going to send a sample to a member that messaged me, so that hopefully we can figure out if there's enough to be worth processing.
 
Kurt is a good man and knows what he is doing, he is actually one of the few members of this forum I have met in person back when he did his "American tour" some years back before he moved to Oregon.
 
There's a coincidence here that's so bizarre that it made me briefly doubt my sanity:

kurtak
Well-known member
Location John Day Oregon

John Day was my father's, literal, actual name (I'm Brian Day). And he lived in Oregon until he was 2, while his dad was a steel worker for the navy during WW2. So, weird.
 
Welcome to the forum !!

Looks like it could be some great material to refine and kurtak is one of the most knowledgeable people on the forum and he will be able to tell you exactly what you're dealing with and no doubt could walk you through the process if you decide to refine them.

This is material that most of us had trouble finding and I would imagine that most plating shops do have their own refiner they use so you are off to a great start already if you decide that you want to give it a try.

This forum is a wealth of real refining knowledge and we do our best to stamp out information that is not true and anything wrong is caught immediately and corrected.

If you want to watch some YouTube videos on refining be careful because there's a lot of videos that are either not accurate we have a member on here that post videos often that show step by step how to refine each metal search YouTube for Sreetips.

Your material is possibly more complicated than just a simple gold refine so you'll need to do plenty of studying and also read the Hoke book, you can find a free copy on the forum.
 
4metals said:
Kurt is a good man and knows what he is doing, he is actually one of the few members of this forum I have met in person back when he did his "American tour" some years back before he moved to Oregon.
Click to expand...

Thank you VERY much for the reference 4metals - much of my success in refining is a direct result of learning from you (as well as others) --- it was & always will be one of my great honors to have had the opportunity to personally meet with you :D :cool:

Kurt
 
whitewlf said:
There's a coincidence here that's so bizarre that it made me briefly doubt my sanity:

kurtak
Well-known member
Location John Day Oregon

John Day was my father's, literal, actual name (I'm Brian Day). And he lived in Oregon until he was 2, while his dad was a steel worker for the navy during WW2. So, weird.
Click to expand...

:oops: (eyes popping) VERY interesting indeed :cool:

Here is a little history about John Day (the man)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_(trapper)
https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/day-john/
Though it doesn't say anything in those articles about "John Day" having a wife &/or children doesn't mean he didn't --- many of the "Mountain Men" did

So it is entirely possible that "John Day" was your great/great grandfather - or ---

Maybe a relative like a great/great granduncle that followed "John Day" out to Oregon on the Oregon trail

For what it is worth (& off topic) it was the history of the Mountain Men that inspired me the most when I was a kid growing up & still has a major influence in my life to this very day (66 years later)

It was the Mountain Mans sense of adventure & exploration coupled with self determination & reliance that has been the guiding force/direction in my life

It is the spirt of the Mountain Man that has allowed me to work at MANY different jobs & "master" each of them - including the subject of this forum (refining)

And though I have spent time living in big cities my heart is & always will be living in the country - the more remote the better --- such as the 20 years I spent living in the mountains of Northern California logging & gold mining & is why I chose John Day Oregon to move to after taking care of my mom & dad until they passed away

It is the history of John Day (both the man & the place) that inspired me to move here - I have a HUGE back yard - called a national forest - which makes up about 2/3 of the county - a BIG play ground for hunting fishing hiking & gold panning & I don't have to travel to it - I live in it

Granted - the nearest Wal-mart is a 3 hour drive away - but - then there is only one stop light in the whole country (that's here in John Day)

For me - I will take the one stop light over the stop & go rush of bigger towns/cities that have a Wal-mart any day

I have NEVER had to locked my house or car since I moved here

Or as the song goes (Charlie Daniels) --- If you don't like the way I'm living - just leave this long haired county boy alone ;);)

Enough of my rambling

I just find it very interesting to bump into someone here on the forum that may well be related to one of the Mountain Men who's name is written all over where I now live

Very cool indeed :D:cool:

Kurt
 
kurtak said:
:oops: (eyes popping) VERY interesting indeed :cool:

Here is a little history about John Day (the man)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_(trapper)
https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/day-john/
Though it doesn't say anything in those articles about "John Day" having a wife &/or children doesn't mean he didn't --- many of the "Mountain Men" did

So it is entirely possible that "John Day" was your great/great grandfather - or ---

Maybe a relative like a great/great granduncle that followed "John Day" out to Oregon on the Oregon trail

For what it is worth (& off topic) it was the history of the Mountain Men that inspired me the most when I was a kid growing up & still has a major influence in my life to this very day (66 years later)

It was the Mountain Mans sense of adventure & exploration coupled with self determination & reliance that has been the guiding force/direction in my life

It is the spirt of the Mountain Man that has allowed me to work at MANY different jobs & "master" each of them - including the subject of this forum (refining)

And though I have spent time living in big cities my heart is & always will be living in the country - the more remote the better --- such as the 20 years I spent living in the mountains of Northern California logging & gold mining & is why I chose John Day Oregon to move to after taking care of my mom & dad until they passed away

It is the history of John Day (both the man & the place) that inspired me to move here - I have a HUGE back yard - called a national forest - which makes up about 2/3 of the county - a BIG play ground for hunting fishing hiking & gold panning & I don't have to travel to it - I live in it

Granted - the nearest Wal-mart is a 3 hour drive away - but - then there is only one stop light in the whole country (that's here in John Day)

For me - I will take the one stop light over the stop & go rush of bigger towns/cities that have a Wal-mart any day

I have NEVER had to locked my house or car since I moved here

Or as the song goes (Charlie Daniels) --- If you don't like the way I'm living - just leave this long haired county boy alone ;);)

Enough of my rambling

I just find it very interesting to bump into someone here on the forum that may well be related to one of the Mountain Men who's name is written all over where I now live

Very cool indeed :D:cool:

Kurt
Click to expand...
Ha ha. Making me look back through the family genealogy book here...

Day is not all that common a name, so always possible there is some distant relationship. But at least I wouldn't be a direct descendant. My direct surname line was still in England at that point. Looks like it was: Brian (b1976), son of John F (b1943), son of John H (b1912, Iowa), son of Daniel (b1855, immigrated from England in 1875), son of Richard (b1808, England). There was a brother's line that might have been over here a little earlier, and there were a lot of John's in it as well, but those seem to have all been in the Dakotas and Iowa. The records I have don't go far enough back to see where a guy born around 1770 might have fit in. Gonna just be one of life's little mysteries I guess.
 

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