What to do with the Copper Nitrate

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Golddigger76 said:
I have always covered my silver chloride with water, add sodium hydroxide, stir it well so there's no clumps of silver chloride so it can react with the sodium hydroxide, then let it react for a while until it's all converted to silver oxide, then I add Karo syrup directly into this without washing and it has always converted into metallic silver.

I never wash the silver oxide because it is easily washed into the waste bucket and I do believe that it needs to be basic for the sugar to make the conversion to metallic silver.

I can't comment on using regular sugar because I have always used Karo syrup but there's no reason for granulated sugar not to work just fine.

I have used quick lime once when I ran out of sodium hydroxide and it was messy but worked good to converte the silver chloride to silver oxide.
I'm wondering if you don't have fine silver oxide suspended in your solution.
I would evaporate it down to around 20 ml and then try the conversion with lye and sugar again without washing your silver oxide.
It looks like there is some copper in your solution but it can be washed out once you have metallic silver.
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Excellent tips, I will look into doing this. Thanks so much GD76!
 
ModernAlchemy said:
Excellent tips, I will look into doing this. Thanks so much GD76!
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After reading again you said that you added a lot of sugar.
So do you mean like a cup or a few tablespoons ?
If you put your solution in your beaker how much is there ?
If it's only 20 or 30 ml you should be able to add some sodium hydroxide to see if you can get it converted and settled.
I can't tell you how much to add without knowing how much solution you have but don't get crazy and add a lot or it can boil over plus there no need to create a lot of waste.
 
Golddigger76 said:
After reading again you said that you added a lot of sugar.
So do you mean like a cup or a few tablespoons ?
If you put your solution in your beaker how much is there ?
If it's only 20 or 30 ml you should be able to add some sodium hydroxide to see if you can get it converted and settled.
I can't tell you how much to add without knowing how much solution you have but don't get crazy and add a lot or it can boil over plus there no need to create a lot of waste.
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That’s the strange thing. When I added the sugar tablespoon by tablespoon the reaction was very very slow and the mirroring came and sat there. I even used a magnetic stirrer because I was getting tired of stirring. Then I thought I needed to add some hot diluted distilled water, and it just stayed black for awhile till I shined a light on it and the water was grey with a mirror shine… it cooled off a bit.. but I felt like the reaction never really broke, just stayed in limbo.

The first time I did the silver choride to silver it was very pronounced when the the mirror effect took place and then stopped and there was gray powder and clear solution there so I knew it went correctly. I did get a nice of silver. Even though when I was drying the cemented silver It got dark a bit and I think that was from the sugar.
 
ModernAlchemy said:
That’s the strange thing. When I added the sugar tablespoon by tablespoon the reaction was very very slow and the mirroring came and sat there. I even used a magnetic stirrer because I was getting tired of stirring. Then I thought I needed to add some hot diluted distilled water, and it just stayed black for awhile till I shined a light on it and the water was grey with a mirror shine… it cooled off a bit.. but I felt like the reaction never really broke, just stayed in limbo.

The first time I did the silver choride to silver it was very pronounced when the the mirror effect took place and then stopped and there was gray powder and clear solution there so I knew it went correctly. I did get a nice of silver. Even though when I was drying the cemented silver It got dark a bit and I think that was from the sugar.
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I only added a tablespoon of sodium hydroxide and it turned black instantly and was fine, i though I was off to a great start.

IMG_0493.jpeg
 
ModernAlchemy said:
It’s just seemed to get more messy. I’m trying to figure out what I did wrong. I had the black silver oxide. Did I not wash it enough? Maybe some excess lye reacted with the sugar and make the grey/mirrorish/blackish water?
I used lots of sugar. Should of even needed that much. Talking 2 cups plus.

I will try it again at some point. I need to figure it out. Thanks for your help.
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You need to wash the silver chloride until there is no more base metal in there. To test this, you make a solution of lye and add a few drops to a small amount of the wash water in a small beaker or test tube.
If any salts are in solution, it will show blue.

I think the mess and blue color comes from copper.
By adding lye you raise pH, and salt will become hydroxides. At high pH, some hydroxides redissolve. By rinsing you lower the pH back to neutral, causing the copper hydroxide to come out of solution. This is dark green to blue.
How did it look after rinsing, before adding sugar? Was it a clear solution?

Raising the pH is a way to get salts out of your waste, so the AgCl must be completely clean before conversion to silver oxide.
Edited for spelling.
 
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ModernAlchemy said:
I just cannot figure out why it turn to a black then grey solution that never settled.. I let it sit for 5hours if anything it was about 2 oz of silver possibly in there. I’m a newbie so I accept the loss. I will try again and again
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Was this that bit of silver chloride? You said 2 ozt? It was so little, it may be very fine qnd suspended in solution. Give it some time to let settle or heat it to see if that makes it clear up.
Hiw much water was there when you added sugar?
 
ModernAlchemy said:
I just cannot figure out why it turn to a black then grey solution that never settled.. I let it sit for 5hours if anything it was about 2 oz of silver possibly in there. I’m a newbie so I accept the loss. I will try again and again
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Because you said you recovered silver cement:
ModernAlchemy said:
after I cement silvered and got back 503g cement silver from 540g Sterling I had melted.
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That is 93.1% yeild from sterling. I don't think you can expect 2oz left in there.
 
Thank you so much for the detailed response most appreciated. I will add this to my notes when I attempt this once again. I wil work on evaporating the solution and see what I have to work with and if it’s worth salvaging.
 
Golddigger76 said:
I have always covered my silver chloride with water, add sodium hydroxide, stir it well so there's no clumps of silver chloride so it can react with the sodium hydroxide, then let it react for a while until it's all converted to silver oxide, then I add Karo syrup directly into this without washing and it has always converted into metallic silver.

I never wash the silver oxide because it is easily washed into the waste bucket and I do believe that it needs to be basic for the sugar to make the conversion to metallic silver.

I can't comment on using regular sugar because I have always used Karo syrup but there's no reason for granulated sugar not to work just fine.

I have used quick lime once when I ran out of sodium hydroxide and it was messy but worked good to converte the silver chloride to silver oxide.
I'm wondering if you don't have fine silver oxide suspended in your solution.
I would evaporate it down to around 20 ml and then try the conversion with lye and sugar again without washing your silver oxide.
It looks like there is some copper in your solution but it can be washed out once you have metallic silver.
Click to expand...
Regular sugar CAN work, but it absolutely needs to be very basic to reduce the silver well enough. Sucrose doesn't have redox potential as dextrose/glucose because it's 'trapped' in a cyclic form due to the position of the glycosidic bonds, and cannot form the reducing aldehyde group which can only exist when sugars are in their linear forms.

Lactose, another disaccharide, CAN reduce because its bond is in a different place and doesn't interfere with linerization ofthe component glucose units.

Strong bases hydrolyze some of the disaccharide bonds and facilitate linerization of the resulting glucose and fructose that composes sucrose.
 
Alondro said:
Regular sugar CAN work, but it absolutely needs to be very basic to reduce the silver well enough. Sucrose doesn't have redox potential as dextrose/glucose because it's 'trapped' in a cyclic form due to the position of the glycosidic bonds, and cannot form the reducing aldehyde group which can only exist when sugars are in their linear forms.

Lactose, another disaccharide, CAN reduce because its bond is in a different place and doesn't interfere with linerization ofthe component glucose units.

Strong bases hydrolyze some of the disaccharide bonds and facilitate linerization of the resulting glucose and fructose that composes sucrose.
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Great information Alondro Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this to me and others. Much appeciated!
 
Alondro said:
Regular sugar CAN work, but it absolutely needs to be very basic to reduce the silver well enough. Sucrose doesn't have redox potential as dextrose/glucose because it's 'trapped' in a cyclic form due to the position of the glycosidic bonds, and cannot form the reducing aldehyde group which can only exist when sugars are in their linear forms.

Lactose, another disaccharide, CAN reduce because its bond is in a different place and doesn't interfere with linerization ofthe component glucose units.

Strong bases hydrolyze some of the disaccharide bonds and facilitate linerization of the resulting glucose and fructose that composes sucrose.
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Very interesting 👌
I love learning new things !!!

Alondro, have you tried lactose to reduce silver ?
 
Alondro said:
Nope. No need to when karo syrup is so cheap! I just know about reducing vs nonreducing sugars from biochem classes.
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Actually, any sugar will work in these conditions. Even despite the fact it is "non-reducing", like sucrose. In strongly basic conditions, silver is much stronger oxidizing agent than in near-neutral conditions. Base decompose glycosidic bond in sucrose and liberate free glucose and fructose. But oxidation party just begin there. Sugar in these conditions is completely "shredded" to small oxidized molecules, in some cases even to carbon dioxide (which forms carbonates in strongly basic conditions).
That is why even glycerin works as reducing agent for this conversion.
 

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