Mining retired landfills?

Captobvious · Mar 15, 2013

This may have been discussed before (although can't seem to find anything) and this could be just another one of my crazy brainstorm ideas, but what would be involved with purchasing the land that a retired landfill (that has been covered over and sealed) and mining it for recyclables? Obviously the PM side would interest me, but hey while I'm at it may as well recycle anything and everything possible as well. Yes this would be a big operation with heavy equipment, which is really not my concern as I have the financial backing if I were to decide to proceed.

The big thing that concerns me is what kind of EPA regulations or whatnot are there, allowing or forbidding an operation like this? The devil is always in the details, and didn't even know if conceptually this would be feasible or not.

Thoughts?

element47.5 · Mar 15, 2013

The big thing that concerns me is what kind of EPA regulations or whatnot are there

As well it should. That is unfortunately a virtually unlimited black hole of potential financial ruin. Depending upon which state you are in, there is no limit to how ugly this could get. In California, we have the Polanco act, which forces an entity to remediate any ground-pollution problems within 90 days....when it probably takes 6-9 months to complete the studies, never mind the activity. They discover a previously unknown drum of something on their list and you are destroyed. The EPA finds some reason to look at you crossways and you are well into six figures or litigation and remediation in a heartbeat.

Smack · Mar 15, 2013

How many years is it that the landfill has to sit before you could even get a permit to dig? 50? 100? That might be the first thing to look into because if it's lets say 75 years, what good electronic scrap are you going to find in a landfill that old? Oh, and we are not talking hazardous waste landfill here either. I suspect you will never be able to disturb a Haz/Mat landfill.

Captobvious · Mar 15, 2013

Smack said:
How many years is it that the landfill has to sit before you could even get a permit to dig? 50? 100? That might be the first thing to look into because if it's lets say 75 years, what good electronic scrap are you going to find in a landfill that old? Oh, and we are not talking hazardous waste landfill here either. I suspect you will never be able to disturb a Haz/Mat landfill.

Good point, and no lol I have no interest in glowing in the dark

But like I said, just a crazy conceptual idea for now

Smack · Mar 15, 2013

There was a show on TV at least 5 yrs. ago that brought it up but didn't spend much time on the subject. I think the trick is to get these landfills to catch metal values before they get buried. Here the policy is once it crosses the scales it can't come back out.

Captobvious · Mar 16, 2013

Smack said:
There was a show on TV at least 5 yrs. ago that brought it up but didn't spend much time on the subject. I think the trick is to get these landfills to catch metal values before they get buried. Here the policy is once it crosses the scales it can't come back out.

So instead of letting a company that's willing to clean up the mess, just leave it to sit in the ground and rot and potentially seep into the environment in 100 years or so.... how can this not go badly! /sarcasm

Smack · Mar 16, 2013

Captobvious said:
Smack said:

There was a show on TV at least 5 yrs. ago that brought it up but didn't spend much time on the subject. I think the trick is to get these landfills to catch metal values before they get buried. Here the policy is once it crosses the scales it can't come back out.

Click to expand...

So instead of letting a company that's willing to clean up the mess, just leave it to sit in the ground and rot and potentially seep into the environment in 100 years or so.... how can this not go badly! /sarcasm

lol, I know what you mean. The landfills are really a big clay pond, they get huge rolls of clay liner and line the area with that before anything goes in and that is supposed to keep the bad stuff out of the ground. Personally, I think they should scan the trash for metals and even recyclable plastic before it goes in the landfill.

lazersteve · Mar 22, 2013

It may not be an entirely bad idea to stay away form some old mining sites. I've heard tale of entire mountains in Canada where nothing grows from the spent cyanide solutions that were dumped in the ground. Working with ores in general has it's own inherit dangers from the arsenic, osmium, and other natural poisons, add in the carelessness of previous miners from years gone by and you have a potential recipe for disaster.

Steve

necromancer · Mar 22, 2013

lazersteve said:
It may not be an entirely bad idea to stay away form some old mining sites. I've heard tale of entire mountains in Canada where nothing grows from the spent cyanide solutions that were dumped in the ground. Working with ores in general has it's own inherit dangers from the arsenic, osmium, and other natural poisons, add in the carelessness of previous miners from years gone by and you have a potential recipe for disaster.

Steve

your right steve, canada is not all nice people and polar bears, we have some nasty **** waste sites up here

qst42know · May 1, 2013

I have seen some videos of third world children scavenging dumps for anything of value. Seems a difficult perhaps impossible way to make a buck.

todd_58 · Oct 17, 2014

Captobvious said:
This may have been discussed before (although can't seem to find anything) and this could be just another one of my crazy brainstorm ideas, but what would be involved with purchasing the land that a retired landfill (that has been covered over and sealed) and mining it for recyclables? Obviously the PM side would interest me, but hey while I'm at it may as well recycle anything and everything possible as well. Yes this would be a big operation with heavy equipment, which is really not my concern as I have the financial backing if I were to decide to proceed.

The big thing that concerns me is what kind of EPA regulations or whatnot are there, allowing or forbidding an operation like this? The devil is always in the details, and didn't even know if conceptually this would be feasible or not.

Thoughts?

Actually, there are many things that can be recycled in a landfill. Besides the usual recyclable items,
1. the plastics can be converted into diesel fuel (in certain cases, also petrol fuel);
2. the leachate can be a source for ammonia; and
3. the organic decomposition can generate substantial amount of methane which can be used to generate electricity for the recycling plant.

If managed properly, this venture CAN be profitable. The first 10 years will be quite excruciating though since the equipment needed for this venture are very expensive (~USD40m startup capital to process 300 tonnes of garbage daily). But after that, you will be enjoying your millions of dollars annually generated from garbage.

silversaddle1 · Oct 17, 2014

The better option would be to open a transfer station. Customers come in, pay the regular fees that they would at landfill. You remove all recyclables and haul the rest to the dump. You make money twice on anything you can recycle. It's golden man!

Pantherlikher · Oct 18, 2014

Excellent thought and has come across many a scheming brain pan.

I worked for a mosquito company for 2 years and had the pleasure of spraying places ordinary people are not allowed. Sewage plants worst of em all.
1 such place here in Pennsylvania, USA, is along the Delaware river. I drove the sprayer truck through a private camp ground owned by a major trash company. The chemicals were non toxic but not good as gold for you, is an oily substance with a scent that drives the buggers into a sex freenzy... Man do they get ta swarmin around the truck.

Anywho... the trash company had allot of land there... The camp ground being the front for the dump.
They are building a second mountain there using steel fenced rock cubes. Cubes of stone held together with chicken wire. These are placed in a huge, several miles around, area building upwards like a large mountain growing. Then, when the blocks are high enough, they come in and cover everything with dirt and then seed to get grass, more like weeds, growing. That whole area is off limits, PERIOD! I could see from my 2-4 mile distance, huge tractor/ trailer rigs running in and out at a continuous rate. The same trucks I see running to and from every trash processing/ collection plant I've come across.

My cousin works at 1 processing station/ collection point. He has mentioned quietly that anything and everything has gone through with not even a second glance. Trailer loads of computer equipment to ..."never mention this" material has gone through.

You can imagine what it will be like in say... 25 years?...50 years?...

O yeh... did I mention the "trash to steam plant they were big with a while back... supposed to reduce landfill by 50% or more. Course, it never made a dime and got buried as soon as the hype faded...

I would be scared to follow behind big companies recycling. Might just find Jimmy Hoffa...

B.S.

g_axelsson · Oct 19, 2014

This is how we do it in Sweden, http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/02/sweden-recycling_n_5738602.html

The ashes are screened for larger metal fragments after the incineration. The ashes would be easy to process for other metals too but I think that we are quite efficient to extract most electric scrap before incineration so there are no economical way today to get the small amounts that still enters the land fill here.

As for starting to dig up old land fills for mining, I think it will happen some day but it will be a huge toxic mess to clean up. Anyone starting to dig would be responsible for the cleanup, and that would cost a lot.

Göran

joekbit · Oct 28, 2014

g_axelsson said:
This is how we do it in Sweden, http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/09/02/sweden-recycling_n_5738602.html

The ashes are screened for larger metal fragments after the incineration. The ashes would be easy to process for other metals too but I think that we are quite efficient to extract most electric scrap before incineration so there are no economical way today to get the small amounts that still enters the land fill here.

As for starting to dig up old land fills for mining, I think it will happen some day but it will be a huge toxic mess to clean up. Anyone starting to dig would be responsible for the cleanup, and that would cost a lot.

Göran

Totally agree, odds are the amount of PM's would never cover the cost of digging them up. I think the only way one might hope to gain from a land fill would be accessing an active landfill, super dumpster diving so to speak, and just walking around to see what might be on the top.

Lou · Oct 28, 2014

I think some landfills would be pretty darn rich in precious metals actually.

Anonymous · Oct 28, 2014

joekbit said:
Totally agree, odds are the amount of PM's would never cover the cost of digging them up. I think the only way one might hope to gain from a land fill would be accessing an active landfill, super dumpster diving so to speak, and just walking around to see what might be on the top.

You would be completely wrong there Joe.

Jon

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