Electrolysys Sulphuric cell

Gold Refining Forum

Help Support Gold Refining Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Kalf999

Active member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
30
Location
Netherlands
About Steve's video about the Sulphuric Cell....

The material for cathode and anode is very well explained.

What I miss on the forum is a table where I can find :
-Volume of the cell
-DC-Voltage
-AMP's
-Quantity of Gold Plated Items ?

In other words , I built 1000 Milliliter (H2SO4) Cell.
Which Power Supply I should use , at which Voltage and AMP'S?

An electric cell seems so important, that I am suprised that there is not 1 specific topic about it....

Best regards, Frans Kalf
 
the volume of the cell is your desire.
with 1000ml you should do just fine with 9-12 volts.

the Amps will change by it self according to the amount of matirial processed each time...
just make sure you have that possibility in your transformer (9-12V , 10 Amp max)

Quantity... well... they say 12-14 hours of net stripping time....
that's a lot of material.... belive me...

Good luck
SAMUEL
 
The sulfuric cell can be made in many different ways, using many different materials. Rather than giving an exact, cut-and-dried setup, I think it's better to first get an understanding of how it works. Then, you can adapt this knowledge to your particular situation. This subject has been covered many times on the forum in great detail, especially in the early days. I would suggest that you use advanced search. An example of keywords you could use are: sulfuric cell cathode. Where it says Search for Author, type in the name of a person that has been involved in most of the sulfuric cell discussions. Two that come to mind are myself, goldsilverpro, and lazersteve. There are many others that have contributed excellent information to these discussions but, when the subject comes up, one or both of us usually gets involved. In general, this is what you need to know:

(1) Sulfuric acid. The strength should be at least 90%, by weight. Battery acid (about 35-40% H2SO4) won't work unless you first evaporate the water off by heating - the weaker acid will dissolve copper and other base metals very rapidly. If you start with a strength of 95-96%, it helps the stripping speed to add about 5% water, by volume, Always add the acid to the water. Don't add any glycerin - it's not needed.

(2) A container. This can be made of glass, certain types of plastic, or mild steel. Don't use stainless steel.

(3) A Cathode. Steve uses a slab of lead. I always used a mild steel tank to hold the sulfuric and made the tank, itself, the cathode (-).

(4) Anode (+). The parts you are stripping are made the anode. For large pieces, you can clip the parts and put them in the solution. For small parts, such as pins, Steve has designed a copper screen basket. Someone on the forum developed a small tumbler to hold and move the parts around. A tumbler works best.

(5) Amperage. The amperage is what does the stripping. The more amps, the faster the stripping. However, the more amps, the hotter the solution becomes. The hotter the solution, the more attack you will get on the base metals. This can cause big problems. In my opinion, overheating is the cause of most of the problems that people have had with this solution. For this reason, for your small 1 liter bath, I would use a maximum of 2 or 3 amps. I like to keep the solution under 120F and control it by adjusting the amperage. If you use a plastic tank, monitor the temperature closely to keep from melting or softening the plastic. You could use more amps if you keep the solution cool. I haven't done this, but you could probably place the tank in an ice water bath or a large cool water bath.

(6) Voltage. It doesn't make much difference what the voltage is. Control the amperage and let the voltage fall where it may.

(7) What happens. As the gold strips, the amperage drops. When the amps fall to zero, the gold is completely stripped. The gold forms in the solution as a black powder. At the end, when the amps approach zero, I usually increase the voltage. The amps will go up a bit and then finally drop back to zero. With a good setup, normal gold plating should strip in a few minutes.

At some point, there will be so much black powder that it will cause a partial short and the amps won't go to zero. At this point, it is time to harvest the gold. You can remove the electrodes and allow the powder to settle in the form of a sludge. Carefully decant (pour) the solution off of the sludge. The solution can then be re-used. If a little sludge is poured off with the solution, don't worry about it - you'll get it next time.

After decanting, pour the sludge into about 7 to 10 times it's volume of water. Let the gold settle and decant or siphon off the solution. Rinse the sludge a few times. Collect the sludge and dissolve it in a minimum amount of aqua regia and refine as normal.

(8) Safety. Working with strong sulfuric can be very dangerous, since it can quickly and severely burn the skin. Always use rubber gloves and a full face shield. Work slowly and carefully. Think before you do something.
 
Great post chris !

just one thing that i belive is missing, incineration before dissolving... i have learnd it the hard way that it's very much needed....
 
just one thing that i belive is missing, incineration before dissolving... i have learnd it the hard way that it's very much needed....

You're probably right. I just never did any incineration on anything and really don't think I lost any values in this case. Harold has almost made a believer out of me, however. Were I to refine again, I might try incinerating certain things.
 
Here's the excellent thread on the tumbler that firewalker made. The links seem to still work. One of the videos locked up firefox - I used the back button while it was still loading, so it was probably my own fault. Maybe Ralph will volunteer to grab all that stuff off of photobucket while it's still available.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5092&hilit=sulfuric+tumbler
 
well, you probably didn't loose any value but i wonder that it's effecting the following dissolving and rinsing later on.

whan i did my first batch that came out of a cell, without incinitarion of the powder, the AuCl3 was very dirty and left me with a very golden/yellow solution after dropping and was negative for gold... at the time i didn't know what happen and thought the i had a problem... but the simple fact was that my AuCl3 was just dirty...

when dealing with the powder from the cell rinse water (where i dipped the pins after stripping), this one i did incinerate, wash well after (water , acid) and the AuCl3 was very very clean and clear after dropping...

whan incinerated, i had to leave my shop for a few minuts dou to the amount of of smoke and smell of sulfur (gun powder like smell).


BTW, i wonder if i could incinerate in a watch glass... will it hold?
 
well, you probably didn't loose any value but i wonder that it's effecting the following dissolving and rinsing later on.
I'm not going to get into this in detail because I think most of you are better off following Harold's methods. They involve more steps than mine, but they are more step-by-step and they work every time for most everything, if you follow them. My procedures are different and they can vary slightly depending on certain variables in the makeup of the material. As far as gold from the sulfuric cell is concerned, I have refined many 1000s of ounces from it with a purity of at least 9995 (and often, 9999) without incineration or evaporation. To do this, I had to master the art of raising the purity of slightly off-purity gold by flux melting. Every professional refiner develops his own methods. The end results are the same - at least 9995 gold. The proof is in the pudding and, in this business, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.
 
Dear chris

i didn't ment to question you final gold product,i apologize if it seems that way.
i assumed that you have your own methods of reaching >99.95%

but as you say, for small timer like me and a lot of others here, inciniration is the way to go...


SAMUEL
 
  • samuel-a said:
    BTW, i wonder if i could incinerate in a watch glass... will it hold?
    Highly unlikely. If you prefer to not use a stainless container, a fused quartz evaporating dish would serve perfectly well. They are not cheap.

    Harold
 
You definitely can't apply much direct heat to a watchglass without it breaking. I used to occasionally evaporate small 5 ml samples of acid gold solutions on a watchglass and then scrape the residue into a crucible for assaying. I evaporated them on an asbestos sheet on a warm hotplate. If I used too much heat or, if I didn't use the asbestos sheet, they usually broke. You might be able to use indirect heat in an oven, but I doubt it. If I tried that, I would use the thin type watchglass rather than the thick variety. Why would you want to incinerate in a watchglass, anyhow?
 
well...
when ever changing a vessel i loose some matirial that is bonding to the bottom...
with watch glass it doesn't.... and if it is, it's vey easy to scrape it of...
 
goldsilverpro said:
Maybe Ralph will volunteer to grab all that stuff off of photobucket while it's still available.

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5092&hilit=sulfuric+tumbler

I've got the video and i'm working on the rest. 8)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgVPWmTFGFg
 
Hello GSP, Thanks very much for your explanation..!
I think you listed all items I needed to know ;-)

I have got a new container with 70's & 80's scrap, so the first week I will be depopulate boards en so on .. ;-)
In the mean time I will set up my Sulphuric cell and try them on a small batch to practice a little.

Again, thanks very much !

GSP & all contributors for this topic, Have a nice X-mas and a Happy New Year !


Frans Kalf, The Netherlands
 
I have a nice question too. I think to make my own cell tomorow but the temperature outside is -15 C sub zero. I have 96% H2SO4 and an old battery charger - 12V and 3A. The material is about 500 pieces of transitors with removed steel hats/caps and 2 of the 3 legs (only one of the legs is attached to the gold plated "base" with no plastic "eye"). Will it work?
 
The one leg that's connected will strip. The other 2 probably won't. Sometimes, stuff in the general proximity will strip even though it's not connected.

Personally, I think this is a very bad idea. You'll end up leaving much of the gold on the part. To get the rest of the gold, you'll have to go through nitric, or one of the other methods, anyhow. Why not just go in nitric to start with? Use the method I outlined to Arthur in the link I gave you.
 
It is cold outside - very cold. The nitric will heat the dish and the heat may break it. There are fumes and I will have to use a lot of nitric. Moreover I'll have to collect the gold foils somehow and they are very very thin (they've been made during the era of the "golden breadth"). I'll have to collect the plastic "eyes" as well. There will be a lot of dirty work. I prefer to worl clean. And for the gold that will not strip - I will keep it for better times when the gold price is extremely high. Now I am interested will it work in the sub zero temperatures.
 
Back
Top