Gold standard: Could it return in the US?

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NobleMetalWorks

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I am not even sure how to think of this. Has anyone read anything recently about this?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19422104

Since I am in a transitional phase, wanting to move into a larger location but still refining out of my garage, this "idea" or trend, whatever you want to call it, has me a bit concerned. I feel the only way that a return to a gold standard could be done, is if we had a repeat of 1933, and the hording of gold would be made illegal again. Otherwise, I think what would happen is exactly what the news article says, all we will hear is a great sucking sound as all the gold in Fort Knox is sucked out by people exchanging paper money, for gold/silver.

Scott
 
Four thoughts:

1: While it is entirely arguable that the US enjoyed the greatest and longest economic expansion in its history circa 1880-1920 while on the gold standard, it's not entirely clear that one caused the other.

2: The gold standard certainly did not prevent the panic of 1873, nor the panic of 1907, nor the vicious recession of 1920, nor the stock market crash of 1929

3: If we went on a gold standard, do you honestly think that Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan would not become the master manipulators of the price of gold, as they are for essentially everything else?

4: Being on or not being on a gold standard IMHO has utterly and absolutely nothing to do with the "financial crisis" we began in 2008 and some would say we continue in, today. That crisis, as well as virtually all other crises in the past 200 years, was brought on by the issuance or emission of bank credit in excess of what the bank held in reserves. The excess emission of credit leads to demand being pulled forward, creating a false picture of inherent economic demand, and speculation in an effort to "front run" that perceived demand; and the buildup of malinvestment in an effort to meet that synthetic demand.

That is my opinion, and it's the essence of Mises and Hayak.

In a fiat money system, when a bank issues a loan, it creates money from nothing. It is in all respects much like a counterfeiting operation. It deteriorates the value of all other dollars (in this case) out there. So you may say "Aha, if we were on a gold std, that could not happen". Well, maybe it could and maybe it couldn't. It is not the gold standard per se, it is the unbacked emission of credit. If credit can be emitted by banks without regard to their reserves nor the collateralization structure of the loans they create, then a gold standard would have utterly zero effect. They are completely independent concepts. They COULD be welded together, but inherently, they are not.
 
I think we've found the economist of the forum e47.5 :lol: In all seriousness though I personally don't think the gold standard will make a real change. This is due to the simple fact that the crisis wasn't started because of strength or weakness of the dollar. It was started by predatory banking practices and banks lending money they don't have as element 47.5 pointed out. How can you loan me $25 when you've only got $10 in your pocket???? To make matters worse you already owe your neighbor $7 and they want it back...a cycle like that is bound to come unravelled and it did. Too bad the average Joe's and Jane's like us had to eat the brunt of it. :|


Edit: much like that old saying "So long as I owe you, you'll never be broke." ...not true at all when the one that owes is always broke to...
 
Call it what you want but i think that yes! they will find a way to control our gold. They want complete control of all monetary systems. Do you not think gold is the ultimate coup? They have plundered the other markets. Why would this one be any different? All you have to do is look around with open eyes to see where we are headed. I'm betting on it and have actually modeled my business by it sadly to say. Black market gold anyone?
 
Where do you think all the gold being pulled out of the hands of individuals world wide with these higher prices is going? Do the banks in fact need your gold? Remember they can leverage it 100 to 1.

The gold is already being taken out of the hands of the people (voluntarily)and being replaced with paper. Think about it. Social engineering at its finest. If you could give someone $ 1600 dollars for an item and turn around and sell $160 000 dollars worth of product from it, wouldn't you? If you removed the leverage in the gold market.... some say the real value of gold would be the $160 000 number.

They take in the gold and sell the paper. If there was ever a run on the banks for the gold, governments would simply be convinced or forced by the banks to cancel the paper. (too big to fail, sound familiar?) You can hoard all the paper you want, some one else has your gold and they won't even have to come and collect from you. They already have it.

Slick idea to part everyone from their gold with out a struggle. Bankers have been parting people and governments from money for a very very looong time and are very good at it. I think banking is one of the only businesses that looks and plans for 20 to 50 years down the road. I don't think their plans are in our best interest.
 
Personally this is what I think...

I feel that Governments are regulating banking institutions on credit and atm fees so that they can force people off paper money, onto electronic money. Meaning we would carry no more paper, we would carry plastic. In the US, this would force everyone to open a banking account, which would benefit the banks anyway. Then they will claim that the electronic funds are backed by gold, but you cannot turn in electronic funds for gold. It doesn't matter what the actual value of a thing is, only that people believe it has value. If people believe their electronic funds are really backed by gold, they will have no problem with it at all.

Meanwhile, whenever you sign a signature card at a bank, or sign any loan, if you read the small print you will quickly realize that there is a clause somewhere that states more or less, that by signing that document, you agree to pay on our national debt, pay the fed reserve which is really just a bunch of private banks, and not a Gov entity at all.

That's just my humble opinion.

Scott
 
You've managed to touch on about half a dozen separate topics...

I feel that Governments are regulating banking institutions on credit and atm fees so that they can force people off paper money, onto electronic money.

I happen to believe that the government is far more under the control of the banks than vice versa. The government passes laws, but the actual text for those laws (which very, very few of our Congresstwerps ever read, much less comprehend) are written by lobbyists for the banking industry in exchange for campaign contributions. Yes, it is primarily a process of bribery. Specifically, a lobbyist for the banking industry hands the Congresscritter the legalese text of the proposed law and the staff of the sponsoring or authoring senator/rep incorporates that text into the proposed law. Laws are really written by lobbyists. Those laws contain the loopholes and exemptions the bankers wish to have in place. When Dodd-Frank was passed as a response to the "banking crisis", this was something like a 1300 page law. D-F unleashed all manner of interest rate hikes and vicious fees on credit cards; to imagine that "altruistic" senators/congresspeople would have done such a thing in the interest of protecting their "constituents" is laughable. The trend these last few years is for lobbyists to write laws that are deliberately incomprehensible; so that when the banks commit massive what would be fraud to any person of normal sensibility, it is not necessarily clear that such activity is illegal. In essence, if the penalty for robbing a bank was that you had to give up 30% of what you stole, there would be a line around the block of people waiting to rob every bank. There is always a means of parsing assertions into finer and finer convolutions. And, you have generally mediocre gov't lawyers going up against the smartest, sharpest bankster lawyers on the planet. This creates a situation where the banks can take calculated law-breaking risks and the worst that happens is that they forfeit maybe half of what they stole. HSBC, convicted in no uncertain terms of laundering drug money...HOW COME they are still primary dealers for US Tsy bond sales? You mean, they haven't lost their license to operate in the US?

Additionally, almost all regulations governing banks and banking have no OR ELSE phraseology. The best example are FDIC regulations. Time after time, the regs say the director of the FDIC SHALL....perform prompt, corrective action...(generally taken to mean, seizing and closing down a bank whose assets fall below statutory capital requirements.) By doing so, the director of the FDIC ensures that the FDIC fund takes no giant hit. But see, there's no OR ELSE....like Sheila Bair doesn't go to prison for ten years if she fails to seize a bank. Nobody knows what happens. The law doesn't say! But, if you or I rob a bank, we're going to the slammer for a specified number of years upon conviction. Everywhere in banking law, there are no penalties specified for regulators failing to perform their appointed duties. THIS is why we are where we are. We have laws. They simply aren't being enforced. During the S&L crisis of the early nineties, over 1300 banking executives were prosecuted, convicted, and many, many went to prison. During this crisis, which was SEVENTY TIMES as large as that one, the number of banker convictions can be counted on ONE HAND. And Madoff doesn't count, that was a stock scheme. The idea that Jon Corzine is still running around a free man tells you all you need to know about the utter corruption of the present regime/system. And HE wasn't a banking exec, per se.

Meaning we would carry no more paper, we would carry plastic.

Well, the gov't doesn't like cash transactions, they think anyone who spends more than what it costs for a Starbucks is a drug dealer trying to launder money and/or evade taxes. They think YOUR money is THEIR money. And they want their cut.

In the US, this would force everyone to open a banking account, which would benefit the banks anyway.

They don't like cash. And the banks don't like having to count it and the Bureau of Engraving doesn't like having to replace it and transport it. If it could all be electronic digits, they would be happier. Agreed.

Then they will claim that the electronic funds are backed by gold, but you cannot turn in electronic funds for gold.
I am not sure this is an issue. If backed by gold, one should be able to buy gold with whatever is money. They may want to know who is buying gold, and that would potentially destroy one aspect of gold ownership--anonymity

It doesn't matter what the actual value of a thing is, only that people believe it has value.
True.
If people believe their electronic funds are really backed by gold, they will have no problem with it at all.
But if you can't buy gold with electronic digits, at a rather tightly-fixed exchange ratio, then I, for one, do not believe that people will believe the assertion that their money is gold-backed.

Meanwhile, whenever you sign a signature card at a bank, or sign any loan, if you read the small print you will quickly realize that there is a clause somewhere that states more or less, that by signing that document, you agree to pay on our national debt, pay the fed reserve which is really just a bunch of private banks, and not a Gov entity at all.

I think you are expanding that concept wildly, even if what you are saying is generally true. The idea of our currency as it is is that you can only pay taxes using said currency, and this is the method by which, to the extent they can, governments enforce the acceptance of their currency. You and I may have a deal to swap silver bullion for oranges, but if you wish to have any more widespread form of "moneyness" outside of our arrangement, and if that form generates what the gov't views as income and is thus taxable, the gov't will only accept their own-issued currency as payment for same. So somehow, somewhere, you are going to have to do something that somebody, somewhere, will pay you money for, so you can pay your taxes.

What you say about the Fed is true and well documented.
 
A dollar is printed. I make a dollar. I pay taxes on that dollar. I spend a dollar. I pay taxes on the dollar i spent. The person that just acquired my dollar pays taxes on that dollar. Then he spends that dollar. He pays taxes on that dollar he spent. The person who received that dollar from him now pays taxes on the dollar and so on and so on. The wheels on the bus go round and round....... So that dollar, is it really worth a dollar to the government, Or much more ? Why wouldn't i print as much of it as i could. Sounds like the perfect scam to me!
 
Going to the Gold Standard won't matter very much. The Rich will still own most of the Gold. To someone who is trying to provide food, clothing and shelter for their family, it is a moot point.
 
Marcel said:
If countries are facing bancruptcy - that is when socialism starts.


Hey Marcel. Is it not socialist programs that are bankrupting the EU countries? That and the bloated governments?
 
in theory, communism is the perfect society (if it wasnt for corruption). the only problem is with large populations living in a socialist society is, the person that works the hardest is paid the same as a laggard. so the population becomes compelled to do less because it pays the same. unlike a capitalist society where the harder you work, the more you make (again, in theory). why strive to excel when you will get no farther in life than when you started. of course the government has to support the whole lazy mess including the old and sick.
 
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