It's Time to go legit. :)

Hi all. I just wanted to take a moment to introduce myself to the board. I have been leeching information from you and I must admit I love every minute of it. I wish I could contribute but it is intimidating to say the least. I read in a post that only 300+ of the thousands of members have actually posted. So I just wanted to say hi and come out from behind the vail of lurkerdom and into the legit crowed. 8)

My mane is John S. I live in PA close to the MD border.
I am an IT guy and I have owned a repair shop for 12 years. I sold off the residential repair side of the business and I kept the commercial contracts. I stockpiled every piece of electronic scrap headed for the landfill since 2000. I knew there would come a day when I would learn how to recycle the scrap. Here in my new facility I have built a "lab" and I have spent hundreds of hours if not thousands preparing for recycling of the PM's in the scrap. My guys thought I was crazy. (the jury is still out on this topic) But last week I produced my first button of gold from stuff destined for the landfill. Now I am not treated as if I am crazy... Every day I am greeted with "hey did you make any more?".. or How much you going to get this week?..

I look forward to learning much more and I hope to one day contribute some useful info back into this amazing forum. I want to say thank you to all the members that take so much time out of their lives to put their experiences and knowledge into writing so those of us who are really interested in the art and hobby (and even profit) of refining gold and PM's can learn from them/it. After all, time is at a premium and every one of you that post answers here don't need to be posting them. You do it because you enjoy it and the concept of sharing knowledge.

I would like to say that I have done some very interesting things and accomplished a lot, but holding that first 2.1gram button in my hand felt like the biggest, most wonderful and complex thing I have ever done. I could not have done it without this forum.

Good night. And thank you for letting me learn from you guys and gals. Dissemination of information is, after all one of mankind’s best assets (next to gold..lol).

Gn.
JS.

Welcome John! 8)

Phil

Hi John, welcome. Don't feel intimidated. Having run your own business, I'm sure there are areas that you can expound on. Glad you are on board.

I wish I could contribute but it is intimidating to say the least. I read in a post that only 300+ of the thousands of members have actually posted.

ReapHer_6 said:

I would like to say that I have done some very interesting things and accomplished a lot, but holding that first 2.1gram button in my hand felt like the biggest, most wonderful and complex thing I have ever done. I could not have done it without this forum.
Gn.
JS.

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John.
Not fully legit until you post a pic of the button.

Welcome to the group

Tom C.

Lol. Thank you.

Ok. Here she is. She's not the biggest, nor sexiest, but she is mine!...
I am so critical on myself that all I think is I could have done this or that better but I have enjoyed the journey much more than the outcome.
I relate it to wreck diving. Sometimes the boat ride out and back builds memories that trump the actual dives themselves. Anyway, the real mistake I made so far is to include my lab in my new facility. I seem to forget easily that this is not my "job" it is a hobby (for now . There is "work" to be done. The only problem is my disipline is missing and all seem to do lately is prepare batches and improve on my lab...So I hope I find my disipline or I might get myself in trouble.

Oh, and last night I said the button was 2.1grams, I was wrong it is 1.8grams. I apoligize, I don't know where the 2.1 came from. It might have been button number 2.

Ok, well I am going to try to work now... right after I prep the reactor!! lol
John S.

jimmydolittle said:

Hi John, welcome. Don't feel intimidated. Having run your own business, I'm sure there are areas that you can expound on. Glad you are on board.

I wish I could contribute but it is intimidating to say the least. I read in a post that only 300+ of the thousands of members have actually posted.

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3430 members (16%) have made at least 1 post, 920 have made at least 10 posts, 160 have made 100 posts, and 22 have made 1000 posts. Noxx and the 6 moderators have averaged 3575 posts each. Harold has the most - 6082 posts. Four non-moderators are in the top ten - Barren Realms, butcher, jimdoc, and qst42know. Palladium (Ralph) is 11th but, if you add up his 4 names, he is surely in the top 10 - actually, he has a total of 3704 posts which would put him 4th. To see all this, click on Members at the top right of the page and then click twice (not double click) on Posts in the column headings.

Looks prety good for the first one.
Now the hard part. Put it in a case and don't change it. Don't come back after you do a few more and try to make it better.

This is the first born and can never be replaced, only cherished. :mrgreen:

Size doesn't matter, its the acomplishment that matters. I've produced over 7 pounds of nuggets but I still remember the first 2.8 gram nugget. I just wish I still had it.

Well it's bed time. Great job.
Tom C.

Wow. Thanks for the reply. It was the fact that so few actually posted that made me realize the need to post. I have been part of several forums.I was in the corvette zr-1 forum and a long range competition shooting one among others. This is by far the best the net has to offer. Finding people that open and willingly share information that they cultivated is very rare. I hope to be able to contribute someday but you guys have this on lock, and there does not seem to be much anyone can add outside of yeld data. I know this is not completely true. Anyway I have been interested in doing this for over 12 years. About 7 years ago I even purchased the 3 powders from shore and tried to do this in my basement. I almost killed myself (for real) and I dumped the contents of the flask outside in an old tool box that was plastic, open and empty of everything but rainwater and 2 drywall screws. I had to get the wife and kids out (yes I really did it all wrong) and after I could breathe downstairs I cleaned up everything. When I went to the toolbox, the sight was unbeliveable. I took pics and cant find them but I will. The gold had attracted its self to the screws and formed 2 beautiful gold covered screws. I have since learned why this happened (from reading here). I then shelved the idea until I could aquire the proper knowledge and safety equiptment. ( I just had a thought. If it has not been done yet, a fiasco section would be a neat thing and a great learning database) I am sure it is in the safety section but I have not looked. It reminds me of an organization that publishes the accident data on scuba diving incidents. I learned more from reading what led up to to others misfortunes, and one even help save me at depth. Anyway....

I did however have the foresight to save evey cpu, memory chip, mobo and card that ever headed for the trash. It ended up being quite a lot. So now I am much safer and wiser, and with this forum I am building the knowledge database. I am taking it slow and caluclating.

As far as saving my first one. I will do as suggested. I am locking it up now. I totally agree, one day it will be awesome to look back and see how far I have come. It is sooo tempting to melt it into the total as the 1ozt is mocking me... I want to add the 1.8 to the numbers.. lol

Well I am going back to pretending I am working.. the reactor is hot and so am I.. to see more bubbles, red gas and deep aqua!!!! (then yellow, and ultimately gold)

JS

good idea. we could call it the " OH $#@&!! " topic, or maybe " yall watch this.." or maybe even " $#@& happens ". :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

Geo said:

good idea. we could call it the " OH $#@&!! " topic, or maybe " yall watch this.." or maybe even " $#@& happens ". :twisted: :twisted: :lol:

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I don't recall seeing this topic listed so I second the motion to start the topic.

OK geo you choose the name. :shock:

Tom C.

Wow. I don't know if you seasoned vets of this forum can remember all the way back to day one, year one.... but I feel like I am getting my ass kicked at every turn... Safety, oh sh!t moments, phew that was close, what the F was I thinking??? What just happend??? and where the hell is my pure copper?

d@mn this looks a lot easier than it is. I have studied for hundreds of hours. I have read a years worth of data from this forum. I consider myself sharp, but this is the most challenging thing I have ever done. I spend hours in the lab nightly usually followed up by reading here to figure out what I did wrong. Success ( by that I mean reducing X and coming out with something X looking at the end. Forget the quality or the weight... just the fact that I ended up with a solid is amazing) with reducing Karat jewelry back to gold followed up with failure with electronic scrap. (I found the spool of 4 gauge copper grounding wire today so I can start over and try to lessen the mounting volume in the stock pot.) More reading. More trying, more patients... and closer to bringing that stuff back from the green void.

I spent 6 years in the military as a combat helicopter crew chief (mechanic).. I have spent time inside a dozen sunken ships at the hairy edge of recreational dive limits in the Atlantic.. I have even (ok I am still currently) parented 2 small children.

This hobby (and possible supplement to the business) takes the cake. I love it and it keeps me out of the bars at night... Ok, lie.. I don't drink but it was a metaphor. First the learning, then the gathering of equipment and supplies. Reading experimenting, reading more and trying not to die. It's all there! Anyway I thought I might be able to admit to some really stupid sh*t that I have done. At the moment I seem to have 1 oh sh*t moment a day in the lab.. I was just wondering if any of you have the same crap happen when you started out or am I just behind the bell curve on this one...

1. As I said about 5-7 years ago I ordered a neat little kit that promised to turn my e-scrap into gold. It had 3 powders and I would mention the place I ordered it from online, but I think you all can guess. Anyway I thought I was doing such a small quantity I could get away with a condenser and tried it in the basement. Bad move. I put the project on hold. Fast forward to now.

2. Ok, The first real issue I had was late, well into the AM and I heated up some AR (with a touch of sulfuric) to speed out the "storm". I never do what I did next, why I did it?? WTF knows...I reached over and picked up the 35% peroxide... well I never pour, I always use a new pipette... I really don't know what I was thinking to begin with....anyway I tilted the peroxide over the heated solution, and I bet you can guess what happened next, Your probably holding your breath right now shaking your head saying..oh no...well in an instant I was on the floor, and covered in hot AR. Now the really bright side. I read what to do in case acid got on me (from this forum). I have 2 five gallon buckets of clean water at either side of the bench along with 2 wide mouth 1 liter Wheaton’s full of lab grade baking soda . I poured the water over my arm and onto my head. Since I am new to this I use a full face PAPR setup. I then reached for the baking soda... I tell you this. Time never felt like that.. I don’t even remember the peroxide leaving the bottle, but not only did it (I would use explode but it didn’t actually) expand so violently It knocked me out of my chair but I found the peroxide bottle on the other side of the lab. Lastly I never, I mean never moved so quickly to the water and got wet... Had it not been for this forum I would have dumped the soda on me first. Anyway I came out of it without a scratch, or even a sign of a burn.

3. Thinking "I got this sh*t down" I made up a mixture and poured it into the reaction chamber. All of a sudden, I had a foam over.. or should I say foam up. The foam went up the additional funnel, into the Allhin condenser up the exhaust tube, (which this genius decided to share with a rack of 100 ml long neck flasks running other samples) flooded the 5 samples and on into the scrubber, all before I could get it to stop. I had to tear down the entire bench, the reaction setup, the samples and all the tubing to clean it and start over...Learned allot on this one.

4. Knocked over a Millipore filter setup dumping the contents (AR) on my arm. At least I knew exactly how to react due to #2 in this list.

5. I was trying to remove a BB size ball of gold from a crucible. I broke the crucible and the BB went flying. Never found it.. You know how much work went into reducing the few filter papers and smelting that BB. Another hour of so gone along with the BB.

6. Ok, I'll end this procession. Today I had all my filtered gold mud from my last run in a small beaker. I wanted to dry it and did not feel like waiting. So out came the torch. I know the beaker was ok for it, but I did not have any way to hold it. All I had to do was be patient and bake the stuff. But I put the beaker on a glass plate and the plate on a ball mason jar. I heated it all was great. until the plate exploded. Of course the beaker hit the ground. It did not break, but it did spill the contents (all of last night’s work as well as this AM's) all over the concrete.

Well I hope this honesty does not make me look to stupid, but after all I am learning every aspect from reducing the e-scrap to smelting. So many aspects. I am taking my time, reading before I leap, and unfortunately getting really good at being human.

So to all those of you who do this, my hat is off to you. You have my respect. This reminds me of a sergeant I met when I was caught up in desert storm. He said there are only 2 types of chew chiefs, the good and the dead, as on helicopters mistakes usually kill all on board (and we fly with the thing every time it takes off). So to you refiners especially you old salts, the fact that your still here to talk about this stuff makes a big statement. If Darwin is right I hope I am one of the fittest, if not.. well, lets not go there.

I hope this brutally honest look at split second mis-steps in my judgment, lack of knowledge or sleep or what ever it is, brought back some no doubt scary moments in your carriers.. and to those that are just starting out let me coin a corny phrase. A full face mask $100.00.... copious amounts of baking soda in already open wide mouth containers about 30 bucks, a bucket of water, pretty much free. My still intact skin... you guessed it ..Priceless.

Ok, let the flaming begin. (gulp)

John S.

ReapHer_6, man thats some scary stuff thanks for sharing your mishaps. I see alot of new people come to the forum and want to start refining like theres nuttin to it, without learning about anything or the proper safety. It just goes to show you how dangerous this hobby can be. Its a good thing you were smart enough to learn what to do in the event there was an accident

Thanks Dogg.

I read a forum (from a google search, not here) once that had an ongoing argument over the validity of posting detail process information or not. The side FOR posting detailed processes explained that every "Tom, Dick and Hairy" would be doing it and many would get hurt or worse hurt someone else (or animals, others kids, the Enviroment Etc.).. I was leaning on the FOR posting it side...I figured if someone is determined to do it, they will do it, at least help them not kill them selves or others...just post the information and let them have at it. Now, after lots, and I mean lots of preperation, study and proper safety gear, my views have change 180 degrees. If they want to dig, then so be it. A bad day at the office sucks, but a mishap in the "lab", garage, shed, whatever could have ever lasting effects.

I am really interested in others "oh Sh!t" moments. I learned early on when diving that hearing what led up to an incident can have profound effects on others and possibly save them money, time, pain and or possibly their lives (as well as their dive buddies).

I do have a simple yet possibly dumb question. Avoiding inhallation of any and or all fumes is paramount. But I often wonder if a beaker of filtered spent AR was left out and the next day the place has a slight odor of the stuff how dangerous is it to be in the room? I am not talking about Red Death, just the slight odor or smell of the chemicals hanging around. Also, lets say I have "friend"..lol, and this "friend" say a beaker left out and leaned in to smell it.. but he got a really good whiff of it?.. Is this frined doomed? :shock:

Just wondering.. for the frineds sake.
lmao
John S

Hey GSP. I just wanted to say I love your book. I printed it and use it frequently. Not a shamless plug or an attempt to snuggle up to you, just the truth!!! Yours and Hoke's are all I have ..Yet. But there is enough in your 2 books and Hoke's to keep a person warm at night.


John S

one of the first things taught in chem class was to NEVER put your nose in a vessel. waft your hand gently over the top toward your nose and sniff gently but never do that much in the case of a nitrate solution. NOx fumes can be deadly depending on amount of exposure and the sensitivity of the person to chemicals. the effect that kills a person is called pulmonary edema ( irritation and swelling of the lung tissues). if the exposure is enough or the person already has lung problems they may seem to be ok at first and then slowly decline being unable to expel CO2 gas that builds up in your muscles and other tissues. breathing oxygen only worsens the condition in most cases for the same reason( more O2 = more CO2). the symptoms have to be treated to bring the swelling of lung tissue under control with the use of steroids i.e. prednisone or some other stronger cortisteroid.

tell your friend that if tomorrow come and they are wheezing badly and cant walk to the bathroom without stopping to go straight to the ER.

Roger that. Thanks for the post. He thinks it was only enough to repell him backwards. I didnt.. I mean he didnt take a deep breath, just a sniff, but it was awefull. It was a solution of post reaction, neutrialized, dropped and filtered solution waiting fo the stock pot... I was just reading a post about the man that survived inhallation of NOx after putting Iron in Nitric..
I then read up on respirators. When I bought my full face one on Ebay, the guy that sold them asked what I was doing with them. When I told him, he said that he will replace the 4 included regular filters with 2 of the chemical ones. Well I will have to wait until tomorrow, but the article I just read said the black ones were for Carbon based applications. The white ones are for acids.. well I have been using the black ones provided with the mask. I am not saying he was wrong, or that they are in fact the wrong ones... but luck would have it I have been filtering out something like the smell and getting dosed with the bad stuff all this time. In hindsight I should have verified them.

Thanks again..I'll keep an eye on my friend.

John S.

I know that it has been said before, but it needs to be repeated, :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: no respirator will filter out nitric acid fumes! :arrow: :arrow: NONE!

publius said:

I know that it has been said before, but it needs to be repeated, :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: no respirator will filter out nitric acid fumes! :arrow: :arrow: NONE!

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One more time,
no respirator will filter out nitric acid fumes! :arrow: :arrow: NONE!

You should post it in the "Situations to Avoid--The Safety Thread"
for everyone to read, especially noobs!

Thanks!

Phil

You are well meaning in regards to your warnings however you should qualify your statement to read "No <<<cartridge>>> type respirator". Supplied air respirators are fine. Recommended as a matter of fact.