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http://goldrefining.110mb.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=200
MMX cpu core removal Comments and Questions
- Thread starter lazersteve
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Fever
Well-known member
Just for curiosity's sake, what is the core of a cpu comprised of? In the video, I think you mentioned that they have little value, with only some very small gold wires. Do you process these cores along with the primary chip bodies after you punch them out, or do you discard them?
Also, speaking of chips, What is in the plastic chips that come off of computer boards and cards by the hundreds? I'm talking about the larger ones primarily, around 1-1/2" square, but there are many smaller ones as well. I was thinking of getting a ball mill and putting all of these through that, then digesting the whole mess with Nitric first, then AR. Are they worth messing with? I have buckets full of them.....
Thanks..... Fever
Also, speaking of chips, What is in the plastic chips that come off of computer boards and cards by the hundreds? I'm talking about the larger ones primarily, around 1-1/2" square, but there are many smaller ones as well. I was thinking of getting a ball mill and putting all of these through that, then digesting the whole mess with Nitric first, then AR. Are they worth messing with? I have buckets full of them.....
Thanks..... Fever
Fever,
I don't discard any part of the PCB (printed circuit board).
The cpu cores don't have much in the way of gold, but I believe they do have other valuables in them. I'm not sure what I'll do with them, but if I don't know exactly what I'm tossing then I don't toss it until I find out.
The tops are nickel plated copper which have some value of course.
The plastic ic's (integrated circuits) you speak of vary quite a bit from chip to chip. The flat square ones with pins on all four sides are called 'quads' or 'flatpaks', the ones with two rows of pins are called 'dips' (dual in-line packages), and the single row ones 'sips' (single in-line packages) are either arrays of discrete components (resistors or diodes typically) or just normal ics. The older the chip the more likely that it has higher precious metals content. The more legs the more hair fine gold, silver, or palladium interconnecting wires in the shell. The outer legs extend into the shell of the ic and converge on the center area of the chip where the 'die' (silicon wafer with the actual circuits) is located. I have never processed any of these varieties of ic's, but like you I have loads of them and plan to when I get a ball mill.
Here are few snapshots of the good older ceramic style ic guts I just cracked open this morning using a small chisel and hammer:
and
Notice the color of the connecting wires to the die (silver or palladium)
The two chips pictured are a milspec logic ic on the left (gold legs) and a consumer grade ceramic case eprom on the right (quartz window on the back).
Steve
I don't discard any part of the PCB (printed circuit board).
The cpu cores don't have much in the way of gold, but I believe they do have other valuables in them. I'm not sure what I'll do with them, but if I don't know exactly what I'm tossing then I don't toss it until I find out.
The tops are nickel plated copper which have some value of course.
The plastic ic's (integrated circuits) you speak of vary quite a bit from chip to chip. The flat square ones with pins on all four sides are called 'quads' or 'flatpaks', the ones with two rows of pins are called 'dips' (dual in-line packages), and the single row ones 'sips' (single in-line packages) are either arrays of discrete components (resistors or diodes typically) or just normal ics. The older the chip the more likely that it has higher precious metals content. The more legs the more hair fine gold, silver, or palladium interconnecting wires in the shell. The outer legs extend into the shell of the ic and converge on the center area of the chip where the 'die' (silicon wafer with the actual circuits) is located. I have never processed any of these varieties of ic's, but like you I have loads of them and plan to when I get a ball mill.
Here are few snapshots of the good older ceramic style ic guts I just cracked open this morning using a small chisel and hammer:
and
Notice the color of the connecting wires to the die (silver or palladium)
The two chips pictured are a milspec logic ic on the left (gold legs) and a consumer grade ceramic case eprom on the right (quartz window on the back).
Steve
Fever
Well-known member
Thanks Steve...
Yea, the older ceramic chips are loaded with gold. Too bad the industry got wise and found ways of using less PGM's :roll: but that's a good thing for technology and the economy.
You mentioned the ball mill. So do you think my proposed method of dealing with these is on target?
Fever
Yea, the older ceramic chips are loaded with gold. Too bad the industry got wise and found ways of using less PGM's :roll: but that's a good thing for technology and the economy.
You mentioned the ball mill. So do you think my proposed method of dealing with these is on target?
Fever
bermudanibiru999
Member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2007
- Messages
- 17
Well, I didn't have that blow gun thing or a vice, so I had to improvise. At least it worked though. Thanks Steve 
Wow! I bet that was very hard to remove the top using a candle!
Even using a heat gun these things can take a lot of time, but it passes the time! By removing the lid you have exposed the majority of the gold within the cpu.
These types of cpus use copper traces between the legs and the die. The internal gold around the die is all plated over copper coated with nickle. The legs are a copper alloy (C19400) or Kovar,
http://www.avins.com/Alloys/kp_spe_al_c194.htm
chosen because of its excellent electrical characteristics and resistance to bending and are plated with 80 microinches minimum, of nickel and then overplated with 8 microinches, minimum of gold (as per manufacture datasheet).
Even using a heat gun these things can take a lot of time, but it passes the time! By removing the lid you have exposed the majority of the gold within the cpu.
These types of cpus use copper traces between the legs and the die. The internal gold around the die is all plated over copper coated with nickle. The legs are a copper alloy (C19400) or Kovar,
http://www.avins.com/Alloys/kp_spe_al_c194.htm
chosen because of its excellent electrical characteristics and resistance to bending and are plated with 80 microinches minimum, of nickel and then overplated with 8 microinches, minimum of gold (as per manufacture datasheet).
Fever
Well-known member
Nice ingenuity bermudanibiru999!
Where there's a will, there's a way :wink:
Fever
Where there's a will, there's a way :wink:
Fever
After viewing the video on core removal video, I also wondered what was in that little gold glass mirror. I am also starting to save mine.
Action Mining has a hand crank ore pulverizer that I am considering. Not sure if it would work on chips or not? It looks like a meat grinder, for around $60. Wonder if anyone here has tried it, or even their kitchen meat grinder on any chips.
I must be cheap on electricity cause I just grab my fiber cpu with two pliers & twist. The core pops out and the plate gets freed up on a corner, then peeled off. Usually the foil stays intact, or peeled off with a tweezer. It's well mutiliated, but ain't going to no fashion show anyways.
Phillip
Action Mining has a hand crank ore pulverizer that I am considering. Not sure if it would work on chips or not? It looks like a meat grinder, for around $60. Wonder if anyone here has tried it, or even their kitchen meat grinder on any chips.
I must be cheap on electricity cause I just grab my fiber cpu with two pliers & twist. The core pops out and the plate gets freed up on a corner, then peeled off. Usually the foil stays intact, or peeled off with a tweezer. It's well mutiliated, but ain't going to no fashion show anyways.
Phillip
I think you are refering to the top of the core, it's shining and golden. That's the cpu core and does contain residual metals.
Fashion isn't important but debris is. By grinding the fiber cpus you make a lot of garbage that ultimately ends up in your gold and has to be filtered out. I call this GIGO "Garbage In Garbage Out". The traces inside the fiber shell are NOT gold, they are copper, only the wires from the cpu core to the lands around the core are gold (wires) and gold plated (steps around core).
Ceramic cpus are a different story all together.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the post!
Steve
Fashion isn't important but debris is. By grinding the fiber cpus you make a lot of garbage that ultimately ends up in your gold and has to be filtered out. I call this GIGO "Garbage In Garbage Out". The traces inside the fiber shell are NOT gold, they are copper, only the wires from the cpu core to the lands around the core are gold (wires) and gold plated (steps around core).
Ceramic cpus are a different story all together.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for the post!
Steve
A Mortar and Pestle for Ceramic Parts - With No Guarantee
I hadn't looked at the Action Mining catalog in awhile and they've sure come a long way. I saw the pulverizor you mentioned and I wonder if you noticed that the material has to be 1/2" or less before you put it in the pulverizer. They actually recommend 1/4". Also, their prices seem high on about everything.
If you're young, strong, and energetic, you can use a big, homemade, mortar and pestle that will probably do the job. I've used it to grind slags and they're about as hard to break up as anything. You could also probably use it for most ores. I think it would work fine for CPU packages and other ceramic IC's. I haven't tried it and I'm not guaranteeing it but, I think it would work, after I saw what it did with the slag. About the only other way to break them up is with a ball mill, which is actually the best way. I've also seen people break them up with a heavy sledge hammer. They held the hammer vertically and pounded with the top of the hammer head and, not the faces. In this case, it would probably be best to put the parts in a heavy steel tray, about a foot deep, to keep them from flying around.
I'll give you the dimensions, as I remember them, from the last one I made. I'll tell you what each piece is for so that you can vary these dimensions a bit, depending on what you're able to find.
The mortar is a piece of wide, heavy walled, pipe about 2 feet high with a plate welded to the bottom. The plate on the bottom should be thick enough to not warp when welding and large enough so you can stand on it. The pipe is heavy walled to withstand the banging and tall enough so that the pieces don't fly out while pounding. The pestle is simply a piece of thick steel rod that you pound with and is long enough to keep from banging your hands on the mortar while pounding. A tall person will probably get a sore back from bending over plus, the pestle is heavy. If the tall person is strong enough, make the pestle a little longer.
The mortar is heavy and it would be nice to have a couple of handles when dumping it out. I would suggest making them in this shape, [ , from 3/8"rebar or rod. Make them about 2"X6". Weld one on the side of the pipe, vertically, and the other on one edge of the plate, bent up about an inch, or so, so you can get your hand under it.
I've never done this but, I think the pounding would be easier if you had 2 similar handles near the end of the pestle. I'm thinking handles similar to those on the tool you use to pound steel fence posts into the ground.
Here's what you need, besides the handles.
(1) 6" to 8" dia. pipe with 3/16" to 1/4" walls, about 24" to 28" long. The ends don't have to be ground but, they should be cut off square. Most scrap dealers that sell steel have a big band saw for this purpose.
(2) A 1/4" plate, about 15" to 18" square for the bottom.
(3) For the pestle. I think the one I had was steel rod about 1 3/4" to 2" in diameter and about 36" to 40" long, cut off square on the ends. That's about right for me and I'm 5'9". A 40", 2" dia steel rod will weigh 35#.
Weld on the bottom plate and the handles on the mortar and pestle. Put some parts in, put some heavy leather work gloves on, stand on the plate, and pound away. You may need to take a few breaks.
I hadn't looked at the Action Mining catalog in awhile and they've sure come a long way. I saw the pulverizor you mentioned and I wonder if you noticed that the material has to be 1/2" or less before you put it in the pulverizer. They actually recommend 1/4". Also, their prices seem high on about everything.
If you're young, strong, and energetic, you can use a big, homemade, mortar and pestle that will probably do the job. I've used it to grind slags and they're about as hard to break up as anything. You could also probably use it for most ores. I think it would work fine for CPU packages and other ceramic IC's. I haven't tried it and I'm not guaranteeing it but, I think it would work, after I saw what it did with the slag. About the only other way to break them up is with a ball mill, which is actually the best way. I've also seen people break them up with a heavy sledge hammer. They held the hammer vertically and pounded with the top of the hammer head and, not the faces. In this case, it would probably be best to put the parts in a heavy steel tray, about a foot deep, to keep them from flying around.
I'll give you the dimensions, as I remember them, from the last one I made. I'll tell you what each piece is for so that you can vary these dimensions a bit, depending on what you're able to find.
The mortar is a piece of wide, heavy walled, pipe about 2 feet high with a plate welded to the bottom. The plate on the bottom should be thick enough to not warp when welding and large enough so you can stand on it. The pipe is heavy walled to withstand the banging and tall enough so that the pieces don't fly out while pounding. The pestle is simply a piece of thick steel rod that you pound with and is long enough to keep from banging your hands on the mortar while pounding. A tall person will probably get a sore back from bending over plus, the pestle is heavy. If the tall person is strong enough, make the pestle a little longer.
The mortar is heavy and it would be nice to have a couple of handles when dumping it out. I would suggest making them in this shape, [ , from 3/8"rebar or rod. Make them about 2"X6". Weld one on the side of the pipe, vertically, and the other on one edge of the plate, bent up about an inch, or so, so you can get your hand under it.
I've never done this but, I think the pounding would be easier if you had 2 similar handles near the end of the pestle. I'm thinking handles similar to those on the tool you use to pound steel fence posts into the ground.
Here's what you need, besides the handles.
(1) 6" to 8" dia. pipe with 3/16" to 1/4" walls, about 24" to 28" long. The ends don't have to be ground but, they should be cut off square. Most scrap dealers that sell steel have a big band saw for this purpose.
(2) A 1/4" plate, about 15" to 18" square for the bottom.
(3) For the pestle. I think the one I had was steel rod about 1 3/4" to 2" in diameter and about 36" to 40" long, cut off square on the ends. That's about right for me and I'm 5'9". A 40", 2" dia steel rod will weigh 35#.
Weld on the bottom plate and the handles on the mortar and pestle. Put some parts in, put some heavy leather work gloves on, stand on the plate, and pound away. You may need to take a few breaks.
I saw the same design on the internet with a few differences. The bottom plate had a hole in the center of it and you drop a metal disc into the pipe before loading your material. The disc covered the hole while you work the crusher. The hole was used to push disc and the compacted material out of the pipe when you were done. Apparently the setup jams or gets clogged when doing larger batches.
Steve
Steve
With slags, I never had a problem with the stuff gumming up. The hole and added plate seems to be over complicating it. They could always be added later if there is a problem. Plastics would be a different story. I've also thought about grinding grooves in the end of the pestle to produce teeth like on a meat tenderizing hammer used in the kitchen. Instead of sharp teeth, they would be flat on the ends. That may gum up, though.
Fever
Well-known member
Haha! Great photos! Looks exactly like my pile!
Fever
Fever
My is way bigger and covers two floors of my garage! :lol:
I can barely walk thru the lower level from all the pc components and arcade machines. I need to pitch a lot of old power supplies and peripherials.
Upstairs I've cleaned up a bit and have everything in large boxes more or less. I've got nearly a ton of boards alone.
Maybe I'll post some pictures later.
Steve
I can barely walk thru the lower level from all the pc components and arcade machines. I need to pitch a lot of old power supplies and peripherials.
Upstairs I've cleaned up a bit and have everything in large boxes more or less. I've got nearly a ton of boards alone.
Maybe I'll post some pictures later.
Steve
I tend to get lost for hours on end when I go in. My wife has problems finding me! 8) I usually carry my Nextel so she can reach me!
AplReprMan
Member
lazersteve said:
That’s freakin awesome and your a true die hard fan. How big is the pile to date 12
Years later
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