Refinement of monatomic Au / nanonrefinement

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Infinitiam

New member
Joined
Sep 20, 2011
Messages
2
Location
Scottsdale, AZ
Non metallic gold or monatomic gold, lacking sufficient electrons to be elementally the same as alluvial or metallic gold, should theoretically be shot with a photon or plasma ray to make metallic gold. From everything I can find, everyone is trying to make monatomic gold from metallic Au however, 98% of Au occurs naturally as non-metallic. After having been a trader & refiner of dust/dore/nugget, we have been given 20,000mt contract of 6% content black & red dust in 300 mesh size to take the non-metallic and convert to alluvial.

Though I have found labratory equipment that can do this in small volumes, is anyone aware of how to do this on large scale..
 
Infinitiam said:
Non metallic gold or monatomic gold, lacking sufficient electrons to be elementally the same as alluvial or metallic gold, should theoretically be shot with a photon or plasma ray to make metallic gold. From everything I can find, everyone is trying to make monatomic gold from metallic Au however, 98% of Au occurs naturally as non-metallic. After having been a trader & refiner of dust/dore/nugget, we have been given 20,000mt contract of 6% content black & red dust in 300 mesh size to take the non-metallic and convert to alluvial.

Though I have found labratory equipment that can do this in small volumes, is anyone aware of how to do this on large scale..
Click to expand...

I would say that your 98% figure is reversed, in that about 98%, or more, of all gold in nature is metallic. Ore isn't my thing but, as I understand it, all gold is metallic in nature except for some gold or gold/silver tellurium compounds, which are quite rare.

I found this same alchemical definition in several places on the internet: "Monoatomic Gold is the non-metallic, non-toxic zero-valence form of Gold". Scientifically, the only zero-valence form of gold in nature is metallic gold. It also seems that the terms monatomic (as you used) and monoatomic are interchangeable.

20,000MT of ore (I assume) containing 6% gold. BS! How was this 6% determined? By YOU, by samples YOU took using proper sampling methods, by fire assays that YOU personally ran? If not, you are being conned. I hope you didn't put a penny of your own money into it (you did, didn't you?). Have the scammers used terms like "immature gold"? Have you been told that this material can't be fire assayed by traditional means? If so, this is an ancient con. The Germans even have a special name for it, although I don't remember what is.

Here's something I wrote a long time ago:

THE BIG CON

All of this leads up to the Con. The Con is very old and is worked mainly worked on the wealthy. I have also seen investment packages made up of small investors. The Germans even had a name for this con, although I can't remember it.

The Con involves finding investors for the transmutation of base metals or chemicals into gold, through the use of a special secret process. When it's time to show the goods, there is sleight of hand and there are "processes that cannot be shown" or " processes that are too dangerous to witness." The key phrase in this con is, "The gold and other PM's contained in this material are not assayable by conventional methods." The PM's are supposedly in an immature form and must be prompted along. I've seen it on a large scale twice. First, a guy that had invested his life savings into a process that got gold and silver out of well water in Arizona. I assayed the water for him about 5 different ways. When nothing showed, he didn't believe me because he was conditioned that traditional assay methods wouldn't work. The other time is pretty well covered in this post I put on 49ermike several years ago. This is almost exactly how it went down.

Quote
"I hope you haven't put ANY money into this. This is an ages old big-money con, which I think started in Germany. The Germans even have a special name for it, which I can't remember. Here is one the many possible ways it is promoted.

THE PITCH ---"In nature, a brand new chemistry of metals has been discovered. Dr. A has been working on it, in secret, all of his life. He found that such metals as gold, silver, platinum, and palladium exist, in many naturally occurring materials (ores, etc.), in an immature form. This baby gold can't be assayed by conventional means, but, after 42 years of research, Dr. A has perfected a fluxing process which matures it to the regular visible gold (or platinum, etc.) form. The process is very expensive - the flux mixture itself contains 27 ingredients, some of which are regular precious metals - like begats like. Only Dr. A knows the formula. His partner, Dr. B, was murdered last year by the CIA. The governments are very concerned about us dumping a lot of gold on the market - it would ruin the world economy. That's why we closely restrict our number of investors and require secrecy. It must never become public - we would all be killed. See this ore? A conventional assay reports only .03 tr ozs per ton. Through special processing and fluxing techniques, Dr. A has proven it to contain 29% gold, 41% platinum, and 4% rhodium, in conversion from it's immature form innate in many common materials. I know it's hard to believe, but we have extensive documentation proving it. With only a few drums of material, we all will be wealthy. Come over tomorrow and we'll show you how it works. Some of the steps are confidential, of course, but when you actually see the gold that is produced, you'll know that it works. Blah, blah, blah"

Certain types of people really get sucked into this. Many still believe it after losing all their money. Every once in a while, you will read in the paper of someone losing millions in this same scam. It can be very enticing.

In recent years, a new version of the con has cropped up. If you type - monoatomic gold - in a search engine, you will see words like ORMUS, or WHITE GOLD. You will also find the "white gold" inventor's name, David Hudson. If you dig, you'll find the same keywords - immature gold, incomplete gold, can't be assayed, monoatomic, etc. Many of Hudson's followers believe that this material is the Philosopher's Stone (or, an intermediate in the process), the material that will give eternal life and change base metals to gold. The solutions are sold on the internet. People drink them. Information is sold also, I think."
Click to expand...
 
Actually, alchemical discussion is the only thing I seem to get feedback on & it is annoying. I am not looking to take gold & turn it ino "ecclesiastical white powder". The flourescence assay which we have on our ore shows an Au content of 6.7% pushing that of the highest concentrate we have refined in the past. My post has nothing to do with alchemy, it questions from a chemistry side if anyone knows about non-metallic gold and the process through either a plasma, as our mine owner thinks, or photon emmitter, as I think, to take a gold isotope (I believe it is isotope) and make it metallic gold. This can be done with copper, but copper isotope is much more valuable than metallic copper. Gold isotope also has a high value but as ours is an ore, seperation is difficult. We are not a chemistry lab, we are a commercial firm enaged in import, refinement, investment & trade.
Because we purchase only dust, dore & nugget, the flourescence test is not a tool we utilize often. From a commercial standpoint, my post is to inquire if anyone has any knowledge of monatomic or non-metallic gold from a commercial standpoint and not repetitive posts about "the elixer of life". Maybe the attached photos will help out....

.....and yes, non-metallic gold, according to my research, is infinitely more common than alluvial old. It does not collect like alluvial gold so is much harder to derive any sort of concentration. That information was easy to find.
 

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Infinitiam---

I would think that knowing exactly what you are dealing with would greatly help in your finding a solution to your problem.

Which of these types is the "monatomic Au" to which you are referring?
 
I have no earthly idea what sent you down this path. Who started you on this theory or quest? Gold only has one stable isotope being that of the 197Au type. The rest break down in either nano seconds or being the case of 199Au 3 days. Unless that ore was made in the last 72 hours all you have is elemental gold 197. Unless of course you are talking about a salt. Can you fill us in some more on this story? something is not right.
 
Just some thoughts.

Ralph is right about there being only one stable gold isotope - Au197. Of all the rest, I found on a list that Au195 has the longest half-life, by far, of 186 days. Twenty years after being freshly made, only about one trillionth of the original amount of this isotope would still exist - 20 years is about 39 half-life cycles. These gold isotopes (all radioactive) are long gone, unless they are continually produced from the decay of some non-gold radioactive isotope of another element present in the material, which is extremely doubtful. In the cons I saw, they usually discussed the dangers of radioactive materials being produced during the smelting from transmutation (or, whatever they happen to call it).

One reason you're getting flak from the things you're saying is because you're using alchemical terms and definitions and numbers. The term monatomic or monoatomic is not a scientific term. It is an alchemical term and it is also used by those who pull the con I discussed in my last post. You might want to think about where you first heard of this term? From the one that's providing the ore? Then there's your statement about 98% of all gold in nature being non-metallic. That's another part of the con as I have heard it - except they called it immature gold. Then there's the part about converting the monatomic gold to alluvial gold. Although you're using the term alluvial wrongly, in essence, I think you mean the converting of this immature gold to solid "real" gold. I have heard all of these concepts before and, in every case, they were used by people promoting this alchemical con. I see many red flags in this whole thing.

Have you considered that 20,000 tons of material containing 6.7% gold represents about 50% ($72,000,000,000) of the annual gold production, worldwide? On your PM, you mentioned a fire assay that ran 1.5 tr.oz. gold/ton. Although that would be considered hi-grade ore, it is at least in the realm of possibility (the high Pt group numbers are another story). One thing good about a fire assay is that it somewhat mimics an actual smelting operation. As I understand it, you will be doing the smelting and I would guess that the ore producer will provide a special expensive flux (which could likely contain gold). Is that true? If not, can you provide the smelting flux formula?

The fire assay is only as good as the samples and the samples could likely be salted. You should definitely pull your own samples by personally running a large amount of the powdered ore through a sample splitter. Actually, it would be much safer to obtain some raw ore (say, a ton or two - pick some here and some there - YOU do the picking) and obtain the equipment to crush and prepare it yourself (in your building, all by yourself) or, send it to a reliable company of your choice to have it prepared and sampled. This is best because it's much more difficult to salt the raw ore than the powdered ore. Why does the ore have to be powdered? I have also heard of cases where the raw ore was salted by spraying on a gold solution and letting it dry. For this reason, I would wash the ore by slowly tumbling in a cement mixer before preparing it. I would then discard the powder produced by the tumbling, in case the gold solution was reduced to gold on the surface. Once you get the samples, seal them with a tamper-proof seal and don't let them out of your sight. Then, have them assayed by one of the more famous assay companies. The fire assays will tell the true values. All this will cost a bunch of money.

Think about these things. You have to learn how to cover your butt. At some point, this is going to cost you a bunch of money. I don't know when, but it will happen. These guys are ingenious and there are many versions of the con. There is the possibility that the guy providing the ore really believes all this alchemical crap but I would strongly doubt it.
 
I was kind of expecting to see this develop into reports about the progress of smelting.

Something like: "I just smelted another small batch of the powder, and wow, it turned out to be 2 oz per ton!" Then: "I was allowed to go to the mine, and pick out some ore myself. I took it home and crushed it, and smelted it, and wow, that sample was 3 oz per ton!"

And finally, "I need to build a much larger smelter, but I don't have the funds. And I would like to share my good fortune with all of my friends at the forum. So if any of you would like to buy some of this stuff, it would also help me to expand my operations, because there is so much of this ore to process!"

And adding, "But you must follow the processing method exactly, or it won't work at all. I will provide you with any assistance that you need in processing, after you have purchased the ore."

And on, and on.

Well, we'll see....
 
It appears that the gentleman's credentials are legit. By that i mean the gentleman who posted here on the forum, not the material. It seems this material has it's origins in the U.S. from a mine in AZ. I'm always open to learning new things so i figure we could do a little investigating for the guy and see if we can figure out if it's a scam and if it is maybe we can all learn a few tips to help better identify the scam. Not saying it is or isn't, just interested that if it is it's here from the states.
 
Yep, sometimes it's hard to tell if they are the scammer or the scamee.

He should be asking his source the questions which we are asking him.


When he said that he already processed some on a small scale, that was a red flag for me, though.
 
My opinion.

This entire thing is BS. If ANYONE in the US was producing ore that ran 6% in gold, it would be world wide news. To think that someone, ANYONE, has 20,000 tons of such an ore and is seeking guidance in making a recovery, is absurd. That it's a scam is assured. Who is getting scammed may not be so clear.

Do any of you have the vaguest idea of the value of an ore such as has been represented here? Assuming the 6% that was quoted, it would contain 1,750 ounces/ton, and be worth $3,102,225.00/ton. That's $1,551.00/ pound, folks! Multiply that by 20,000 and you get a number too large for an 8 column calculator to compute, but it exceeds $62 billion dollars. (Thanks for the correction, GSP)

Yeah, that's what they have---so much gold they have to turn to a web site to discover a way to make a recovery.

I believe it. Just like I believe the claims of immature gold that circulated in the late 20th century, with origins in Arizona.

Coincidence?

I think not.

When you are confronted with an issue such as this--it's pretty easy to figure things out. Look at it from this perspective. Money NEVER goes looking for people----it's always people looking for money. If you watch long enough, it becomes obvious what angle is being pursued.

Harold
 
When you are confronted with an issue such as this--it's pretty easy to figure things out. Look at it from this perspective. Money NEVER goes looking for people----it's always people looking for money. If you watch long enough, it becomes obvious what angle is being pursued.
Click to expand...

Harold's absolutely right. WHY ARE YOU NEEDED IN THIS OPERATION?
 
Quoted from Harold:

"I believe it. Just like I believe the claims of immature gold that circulated in the late 20th century, with origins in Arizona. - Coincidence?"

In this case I do not believe in coincidence. 1988, in late autumn I attended a seminar concerning recovery and refining of precious metals, held by the International Precious Metals Institute (IPMI) in Scottsdale AZ. There were some people, all located near Phoenix AZ, apparently working well organized together. One person tried to convince others, to buy some misterious black sand, containing enormous quantities of gold, together with rhodium and iridium, alas, not being easily detectable by "normal assaying" like fire assay, X-ray fluorescence, atomic absorption, ICP and wet chemical tests after digestion, caused not only by their inertness against all known chemicals and treatments commonly used in pm-assaying.
An other person offered reliable assaying by some very special analytical methods, like vaporisation in a plasma arc to reveal the true nature of these sands and a third one even stated to have found a method, to treat big batches of the material in a very special plasma-oven-construction together with specially tuned electromagnetiv wave induction by frequencies adapted to the pm-values to be recovered. A common theme among these three individuals was the subject of white gold, a non metallic, very volatile substance (therefor no fire assay possible), inert even against aqua regia and not detectable by stannous chloride testing.

If you ever encounter such fairy tales, please keep your fingers away, it's only b......t, like Harold stated it clearly with only two simple capital letters.

freechemist
 
freechemist said:
Quoted from Harold:

"I believe it. Just like I believe the claims of immature gold that circulated in the late 20th century, with origins in Arizona. - Coincidence?"

In this case I do not believe in coincidence. 1988, in late autumn I attended a seminar concerning recovery and refining of precious metals, held by the International Precious Metals Institute (IPMI) in Scottsdale AZ. There were some people, all located near Phoenix AZ, apparently working well organized together. One person tried to convince others, to buy some misterious black sand, containing enormous quantities of gold, together with rhodium and iridium, alas, not being easily detectable by "normal assaying" like fire assay, X-ray fluorescence, atomic absorption, ICP and wet chemical tests after digestion, caused not only by their inertness against all known chemicals and treatments commonly used in pm-assaying.
An other person offered reliable assaying by some very special analytical methods, like vaporisation in a plasma arc to reveal the true nature of these sands and a third one even stated to have found a method, to treat big batches of the material in a very special plasma-oven-construction together with specially tuned electromagnetiv wave induction by frequencies adapted to the pm-values to be recovered. A common theme among these three individuals was the subject of white gold, a non metallic, very volatile substance (therefor no fire assay possible), inert even against aqua regia and not detectable by stannous chloride testing.

If you ever encounter such fairy tales, please keep your fingers away, it's only b......t, like Harold stated it clearly with only two simple capital letters.

freechemist
Click to expand...


With the high prices, there is probably a lot more scams of this type going on than we could ever imagine. I think this scam has existed for centuries. All we can do is warn people and hope they don't bite at the carrot with GREED stamped on it.

I attended the IPMI refining conference at San Diego in 1981. Attended every lecture, learned a lot, and had a great time. Still have the book.

Being in Switzerland, are you familiar with Prior Engineering? They make some interesting high speed gold and silver cells.
 
Hi, goldsilverpro,

Yes, I know Adalbert Prior, but it's a long time ago, since I met him last. In the late 1980's our contacts were quite frequent and intensive. The last time i met him was accidental, at the IPMI annual conference 1999 in Acapulco, where he was a speaker in the recovery- and refining-section. As far as I know, he holds some patents concerning silver refining in Moebius cells, and, quite recently, one for the reduction of dry solid AgCl, using a gaseous mixture of 50%/50% hydrogen and nitrogen.

freechemist
 
A few years back I was doing some work for a refiner who offered to take material from what I would call a less than honest source. They claimed that my classic fire assays or even my ICP analysis after leaching the ore would never be able to detect the metals. Of course they had tons and tons of this stuff.

I finally convinced them to give me their analytical methods so I could verify their results.

They did, and I am sharing them here with anybody willing to read them. So now we all know how to do it!

View attachment COMPLEX_ORE_PROCESS.doc
 
In the document of complex ore, I see no pretreatment of ore in the procedure like roasting and leaching base metals. From reading this very briefly, it seems to me they took a known working process to refine metals not ore and rewrote it adding nonsense steps to make it into a process full of ways to lose values and steps that do nothing of value.

Looks like a mutilation of simple process to a complex process of ore.


He left out the page where he sprinkles it with the special salt to flavor it.
 
There is also a process which claims to transform metalic gold into the monoatomic form.

But first, here is the alchemy background legend about this stuff.

With all that, you can see why the following instructions, which are preceded by a "anecdotal evidence" story, are out there in orbit!

The Don Nance story, including instructions for making monoatomic gold.

Fasten your seat belts, please.

:shock:




Caution: Spoiler follows! Don't read if you like surprises!


Basically he uses the AP method, with lots of peroxide, to dissolve gold.

Then he uses lye to raise the pH way up until it precipitates, and then uses HCl to lower it again until it dissolves. He repeats this over and over, supposedly to separate the gold atoms from each other.

In step 12a the precipitate is supposed to be "a white powder of gold trichloride."

Besides the high-low pH cycles, there is drying out and boiling the powder in lye.

Along the way, he drinks some of the rinse water.

After step 21, he says, of the white precipitate, "you can measure it into water and have at it."

He does recommend using gloves for all this, however. :lol:
 
goldsilverpro said:
Just some thoughts.

Ralph is right about there being only one stable gold isotope - Au197. Of all the rest, I found on a list that Au195 has the longest half-life, by far, of 186 days. Twenty years after being freshly made, only about one trillionth of the original amount of this isotope would still exist - 20 years is about 39 half-life cycles. These gold isotopes (all radioactive) are long gone, unless they are continually produced from the decay of some non-gold radioactive isotope of another element present in the material, which is extremely doubtful. In the cons I saw, they usually discussed the dangers of radioactive materials being produced during the smelting from transmutation (or, whatever they happen to call it).

One reason you're getting flak from the things you're saying is because you're using alchemical terms and definitions and numbers. The term monatomic or monoatomic is not a scientific term. It is an alchemical term and it is also used by those who pull the con I discussed in my last post. You might want to think about where you first heard of this term? From the one that's providing the ore? Then there's your statement about 98% of all gold in nature being non-metallic. That's another part of the con as I have heard it - except they called it immature gold. Then there's the part about converting the monatomic gold to alluvial gold. Although you're using the term alluvial wrongly, in essence, I think you mean the converting of this immature gold to solid "real" gold. I have heard all of these concepts before and, in every case, they were used by people promoting this alchemical con. I see many red flags in this whole thing.

Have you considered that 20,000 tons of material containing 6.7% gold represents about 50% ($72,000,000,000) of the annual gold production, worldwide? On your PM, you mentioned a fire assay that ran 1.5 tr.oz. gold/ton. Although that would be considered hi-grade ore, it is at least in the realm of possibility (the high Pt group numbers are another story). One thing good about a fire assay is that it somewhat mimics an actual smelting operation. As I understand it, you will be doing the smelting and I would guess that the ore producer will provide a special expensive flux (which could likely contain gold). Is that true? If not, can you provide the smelting flux formula?

The fire assay is only as good as the samples and the samples could likely be salted. You should definitely pull your own samples by personally running a large amount of the powdered ore through a sample splitter. Actually, it would be much safer to obtain some raw ore (say, a ton or two - pick some here and some there - YOU do the picking) and obtain the equipment to crush and prepare it yourself (in your building, all by yourself) or, send it to a reliable company of your choice to have it prepared and sampled. This is best because it's much more difficult to salt the raw ore than the powdered ore. Why does the ore have to be powdered? I have also heard of cases where the raw ore was salted by spraying on a gold solution and letting it dry. For this reason, I would wash the ore by slowly tumbling in a cement mixer before preparing it. I would then discard the powder produced by the tumbling, in case the gold solution was reduced to gold on the surface. Once you get the samples, seal them with a tamper-proof seal and don't let them out of your sight. Then, have them assayed by one of the more famous assay companies. The fire assays will tell the true values. All this will cost a bunch of money.

Think about these things. You have to learn how to cover your butt. At some point, this is going to cost you a bunch of money. I don't know when, but it will happen. These guys are ingenious and there are many versions of the con. There is the possibility that the guy providing the ore really believes all this alchemical crap but I would strongly doubt it.
Click to expand...
Using information provided by subtleenergies.com, I was able to trap a racemic mix of monoatomic noble metals with magnets, which produced about 20 grams from roughly 2 tonnes of household waste water (my magentic trap was not very efficient, but it proved the concept). It was a milky substance, slightly sweet to taste, exactly as described by Subtle Energies. Also, using Sodium Hydroxide according to the method likewise described by Subtle Energies, I was able to titrate about 500 grams (dessicated weight) from roughly 150 litres of sea water taken at Burns Beach WA, likewise as a milky substance which I dried and pulverised to powder. I still have about 300 grams of that substance. According to Subtle Energies, this is a racemic mix of about 12 monoatomic noble metals in fully condensed electronic states and semicondensed electronic states as their hydroxides. The hydroxides cause the fully condensed monoatomic elements to aggregate with them, thus facilitating the precipitation of the fully condensed elements together with the hydroxides. I experimented with this dried powder, again after a method described at Subtle Energies, by using Hydrochloric Acid to redissolve the mixture. According to Subtle Energies, all the elements redissolve EXCEPT the m-Gold and its hydroxide. I put this solution through laboratory filter paper, which extracted a dark reddish residue, namely the m-Gold and its hydroxide, EXACTLY as described by Subtle Energies. I have not found any information on how to convert the monoatomic material into metallic elements, although I believe DNA is capable of doing this on a small scale. Of the many weird properties attributed to these monoatomic elements, I was able to verify ONE property - the stuff is definitely ANTIMAGNETIC - it is repelled by both magnetic poles. A complex and expensive procedure was described by David Hudson and disclosed at Subtle Energhies to sequentially separate the presumed 12 elements into single monatomic elements. I could not go down that rabbit hole. However, while the substance answers to names like Mfkzt, the biblical Manna, Philosopher's Stone, White Powder of Projection and ORMES or Ormus, it has a formal scientific name given it by Albert Einstein and named after himself and his mentor - namely Bose-Einstein Condensate or BEC. I believe that while you claim it is one gigantic con that takes many variant forms, I strongly suspect that you have NOT carried out any of the aforementioned processes, either to prove or disprove any of the claims whatsoever. I think you decry the existence of the stuff from the insular comfort of an armchair in front of your damned computer and nothing else. Oh, and by the way, other isotopes of gold, all radioactive of course, are nonetheless METALLIC GOLD, not non-metallic. You know, I am fed up to the back teeth with self-appointed experts who are in reality nothing of the kind. I have run afoul of them in the field of Ornithology too, just to cite one other example. I tell you now, there'll be egg on the faces of those clowns when I prove the existence of an heretofore undocumented species of Australian ratite bird, which is distantly related to the Emu and has no closer relatives. In conclusion, my advice to you is to stick to what you factually know to be proven from first-hand experience and leave the cutting edges to those who actually do cut the edges!
 
As an old friend used to say "people who think they know it all, are particularly aggravating to those of us who really do". After reading a bunch of who haw, what are the origins of this stuff? I can only think of the nearest form being the supergene enrichment of Au in supergene deposits. I do not know it all, but would like to be enlightened on the origin of said chemistry, besides alchemy.
 

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