a government precious metals purchasing agency

[Indigo Suelo]

The title says it all. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. I posted in this forum to find potential agents from what could be the best of the best in refiners.

(#1) Aside from that let's talk pros and cons of the possibility.

There are NO pros to this idea --- it's ALL a CON

(#2) My views are, a state or federal agency that purchases the precious metals in the state or nation would give the sellers, prospector, refiners and assayers a dependable location to sell their metals and ores

So you want GOVERNMENT to CONTROL the price of PMs --- instead of "free market" supply/demand

You have an awful lot of trust in the the government :roll: :roll: :roll:

(#3) while stimulating the economy by making the dollar stronger by basing it's value in part on the precious metals and ores that it has purchased. Essentially filling Fort Knox with precious metals instead of the opiods that are currently stored in it.

That will NOT stimulate the economy - they will CONTROL the price & then they will put it in "their own " pocket for their own greedy purpose's --- when I sell my PMs (on the free market) I then take the money & buy things with it - THAT stimulates the economy

(#4) The amounts that are paid out to the sellers could fund new developments including and not limited to schools, residential locations, museums, manufacturing plants, the list goes on and on

So - not only do you want government to "control" the price of PMs --- but you also want government to CONTROL where & how the money I get is going to have to be spent --- it's MY money - I will spend it where & how I want - including but not limited to throwing a BIG party for my friends & family (if that's what I WANT to do with it)

(#5)but tell me what your views are

Sounds like PURE socialism to me --- "control" of the price I get - & "control" of how/where MY money gets spent :shock:

(#6) and if you would like to be a part of this new department.

Just what we need - another "department" that "controls" our lives --- NOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurt

Well Kurt, to be as polite as possible in response to your comment. First the fair market value is the price the established agency would be purchasing at.
The automated machine proposed would be set in locations where sellers would likely be. Being of course there is a finite number of refiners and sellers. The agents would be tending to the automated devices while meeting with sellers of large quantities.
This agency is being established to buy your metals, not control your life. As much as you or others that would feel hesitant in wanting government involved in this business should realize that government is business and having a dedicated buyer would strengthen the industry by eliminating the discrimination enacted by so many of the current buyers.
Further more establishing of this agency with the push to diversify the national financial portfolio would strengthen the national currency. Which in turn stimulates economic growth, by putting the resources in the hands of those that would be more apt to develop.
So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

 

[stoneware]

The title says it all. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. I posted in this forum to find potential agents from what could be the best of the best in refiners.

(#1) Aside from that let's talk pros and cons of the possibility.

There are NO pros to this idea --- it's ALL a CON

(#2) My views are, a state or federal agency that purchases the precious metals in the state or nation would give the sellers, prospector, refiners and assayers a dependable location to sell their metals and ores

So you want GOVERNMENT to CONTROL the price of PMs --- instead of "free market" supply/demand

You have an awful lot of trust in the the government :roll: :roll: :roll:

(#3) while stimulating the economy by making the dollar stronger by basing it's value in part on the precious metals and ores that it has purchased. Essentially filling Fort Knox with precious metals instead of the opiods that are currently stored in it.

That will NOT stimulate the economy - they will CONTROL the price & then they will put it in "their own " pocket for their own greedy purpose's --- when I sell my PMs (on the free market) I then take the money & buy things with it - THAT stimulates the economy

(#4) The amounts that are paid out to the sellers could fund new developments including and not limited to schools, residential locations, museums, manufacturing plants, the list goes on and on

So - not only do you want government to "control" the price of PMs --- but you also want government to CONTROL where & how the money I get is going to have to be spent --- it's MY money - I will spend it where & how I want - including but not limited to throwing a BIG party for my friends & family (if that's what I WANT to do with it)

(#5)but tell me what your views are

Sounds like PURE socialism to me --- "control" of the price I get - & "control" of how/where MY money gets spent :shock:

(#6) and if you would like to be a part of this new department.

Just what we need - another "department" that "controls" our lives --- NOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurt

Well Kurt, to be as polite as possible in response to your comment. First the fair market value is the price the established agency would be purchasing at.
The automated machine proposed would be set in locations where sellers would likely be. Being of course there is a finite number of refiners and sellers. The agents would be tending to the automated devices while meeting with sellers of large quantities.
This agency is being established to buy your metals, not control your life. As much as you or others that would feel hesitant in wanting government involved in this business should realize that government is business and having a dedicated buyer would strengthen the industry by eliminating the discrimination enacted by so many of the current buyers.
Further more establishing of this agency with the push to diversify the national financial portfolio would strengthen the national currency. Which in turn stimulates economic growth, by putting the resources in the hands of those that would be more apt to develop.
So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

Sounds good to me, where do I sign up. :lol:

 

[Justincase]

The title says it all. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. I posted in this forum to find potential agents from what could be the best of the best in refiners.

(#1) Aside from that let's talk pros and cons of the possibility.

There are NO pros to this idea --- it's ALL a CON

(#2) My views are, a state or federal agency that purchases the precious metals in the state or nation would give the sellers, prospector, refiners and assayers a dependable location to sell their metals and ores

So you want GOVERNMENT to CONTROL the price of PMs --- instead of "free market" supply/demand

You have an awful lot of trust in the the government :roll: :roll: :roll:

(#3) while stimulating the economy by making the dollar stronger by basing it's value in part on the precious metals and ores that it has purchased. Essentially filling Fort Knox with precious metals instead of the opiods that are currently stored in it.

That will NOT stimulate the economy - they will CONTROL the price & then they will put it in "their own " pocket for their own greedy purpose's --- when I sell my PMs (on the free market) I then take the money & buy things with it - THAT stimulates the economy

(#4) The amounts that are paid out to the sellers could fund new developments including and not limited to schools, residential locations, museums, manufacturing plants, the list goes on and on

So - not only do you want government to "control" the price of PMs --- but you also want government to CONTROL where & how the money I get is going to have to be spent --- it's MY money - I will spend it where & how I want - including but not limited to throwing a BIG party for my friends & family (if that's what I WANT to do with it)

(#5)but tell me what your views are

Sounds like PURE socialism to me --- "control" of the price I get - & "control" of how/where MY money gets spent :shock:

(#6) and if you would like to be a part of this new department.

Just what we need - another "department" that "controls" our lives --- NOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurt

Well Kurt, to be as polite as possible in response to your comment. First the fair market value is the price the established agency would be purchasing at.
The automated machine proposed would be set in locations where sellers would likely be. Being of course there is a finite number of refiners and sellers. The agents would be tending to the automated devices while meeting with sellers of large quantities.
This agency is being established to buy your metals, not control your life. As much as you or others that would feel hesitant in wanting government involved in this business should realize that government is business and having a dedicated buyer would strengthen the industry by eliminating the discrimination enacted by so many of the current buyers.
Further more establishing of this agency with the push to diversify the national financial portfolio would strengthen the national currency. Which in turn stimulates economic growth, by putting the resources in the hands of those that would be more apt to develop.
So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

You keep on mentioning the creation of a governmental agency.
Do you actually have any experience in government service?
A Master’s Degrees (Civil Service)?
Or are an elected official.
If you did have some prevalent experience you could inform us about, that would lend some weight to your suggestion.
Or are starting out in your career and trying to find a rout to follow, starting from nowhere?
It is quite a feat of governmental development to form such an agency, your level of experience in running such establishments would also be of interest.

 

[jimdoc]

I think the current US administration probably gets their gold from Ebay blobs.

 

[Justincase]

I think the current US administration probably gets their gold from Ebay blobs.

It is widely believed within the industry that the US Gold reserve has been completely squandered and misappropriated to the point that Fort Knox is just about completely empty of gold.
I would live to see a world audit of precious metal stocks to see just how much smoke is being blown up peoples gluteus maximus.

 

[nickvc]

My thoughts are we have seen the American government remove gold from circulation in the past by decree and paid the fair market price in paper money only to raise the price later on so robbing the people of their fair share of value, will this agency you are spouting on about decide the price that is paid or will the market, if it’s the agency Ponzi scheme leaps to mind with only the government getting a fair price for the gold or other precious metals leaving the seller with a very poor return for their efforts in either mining or refining.

 

[kurtak]

Well Kurt, to be as polite as possible in response to your comment. First the fair market value is the price the established agency would be purchasing at.
The automated machine proposed would be set in locations where sellers would likely be. Being of course there is a finite number of refiners and sellers. The agents would be tending to the automated devices while meeting with sellers of large quantities.
This agency is being established to buy your metals, not control your life. As much as you or others that would feel hesitant in wanting government involved in this business should realize that government is business and having a dedicated buyer would strengthen the industry by eliminating the discrimination enacted by so many of the current buyers.
Further more establishing of this agency with the push to diversify the national financial portfolio would strengthen the national currency. Which in turn stimulates economic growth, by putting the resources in the hands of those that would be more apt to develop.
So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

Indigo Suelo

I don't currently have time to reply - But will "try" to this weekend - so stay tuned (check back)

Kurt

 

[Auful]

The title says it all. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. I posted in this forum to find potential agents from what could be the best of the best in refiners.

(#1) Aside from that let's talk pros and cons of the possibility.

There are NO pros to this idea --- it's ALL a CON

(#2) My views are, a state or federal agency that purchases the precious metals in the state or nation would give the sellers, prospector, refiners and assayers a dependable location to sell their metals and ores

So you want GOVERNMENT to CONTROL the price of PMs --- instead of "free market" supply/demand

You have an awful lot of trust in the the government :roll: :roll: :roll:

(#3) while stimulating the economy by making the dollar stronger by basing it's value in part on the precious metals and ores that it has purchased. Essentially filling Fort Knox with precious metals instead of the opiods that are currently stored in it.

That will NOT stimulate the economy - they will CONTROL the price & then they will put it in "their own " pocket for their own greedy purpose's --- when I sell my PMs (on the free market) I then take the money & buy things with it - THAT stimulates the economy

(#4) The amounts that are paid out to the sellers could fund new developments including and not limited to schools, residential locations, museums, manufacturing plants, the list goes on and on

So - not only do you want government to "control" the price of PMs --- but you also want government to CONTROL where & how the money I get is going to have to be spent --- it's MY money - I will spend it where & how I want - including but not limited to throwing a BIG party for my friends & family (if that's what I WANT to do with it)

(#5)but tell me what your views are

Sounds like PURE socialism to me --- "control" of the price I get - & "control" of how/where MY money gets spent :shock:

(#6) and if you would like to be a part of this new department.

Just what we need - another "department" that "controls" our lives --- NOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurt

So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

Well Indigo, to be polite as possible, this idea is socialist. I don't think the USA is a socialist economy (yet), nor would I personally want it to be. The idea is very political. If politics are not allowed on this forum, shouldn't this be stricken or closed? Kurt doesn't appear to be paranoid, rather a capitalist; an ideal which was a basic foundation of our society in the USA.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

The title says it all. That's what I'm in the process of doing right now. I posted in this forum to find potential agents from what could be the best of the best in refiners.

(#1) Aside from that let's talk pros and cons of the possibility.

There are NO pros to this idea --- it's ALL a CON

(#2) My views are, a state or federal agency that purchases the precious metals in the state or nation would give the sellers, prospector, refiners and assayers a dependable location to sell their metals and ores

So you want GOVERNMENT to CONTROL the price of PMs --- instead of "free market" supply/demand

You have an awful lot of trust in the the government :roll: :roll: :roll:

(#3) while stimulating the economy by making the dollar stronger by basing it's value in part on the precious metals and ores that it has purchased. Essentially filling Fort Knox with precious metals instead of the opiods that are currently stored in it.

That will NOT stimulate the economy - they will CONTROL the price & then they will put it in "their own " pocket for their own greedy purpose's --- when I sell my PMs (on the free market) I then take the money & buy things with it - THAT stimulates the economy

(#4) The amounts that are paid out to the sellers could fund new developments including and not limited to schools, residential locations, museums, manufacturing plants, the list goes on and on

So - not only do you want government to "control" the price of PMs --- but you also want government to CONTROL where & how the money I get is going to have to be spent --- it's MY money - I will spend it where & how I want - including but not limited to throwing a BIG party for my friends & family (if that's what I WANT to do with it)

(#5)but tell me what your views are

Sounds like PURE socialism to me --- "control" of the price I get - & "control" of how/where MY money gets spent :shock:

(#6) and if you would like to be a part of this new department.

Just what we need - another "department" that "controls" our lives --- NOT :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kurt

Well Kurt, to be as polite as possible in response to your comment. First the fair market value is the price the established agency would be purchasing at.
The automated machine proposed would be set in locations where sellers would likely be. Being of course there is a finite number of refiners and sellers. The agents would be tending to the automated devices while meeting with sellers of large quantities.
This agency is being established to buy your metals, not control your life. As much as you or others that would feel hesitant in wanting government involved in this business should realize that government is business and having a dedicated buyer would strengthen the industry by eliminating the discrimination enacted by so many of the current buyers.
Further more establishing of this agency with the push to diversify the national financial portfolio would strengthen the national currency. Which in turn stimulates economic growth, by putting the resources in the hands of those that would be more apt to develop.
So Kurt, since the agency I am establishing is for the people and established by the people, with the intent of providing the resources the people need to the people, is there really a con to it . Even if youre a paranoid type you would have to agree that this industry needs regulation if at least to establish a fair trade system in a industry plagued with corruption and theft.

You keep on mentioning the creation of a governmental agency.
Do you actually have any experience in government service?
A Master’s Degrees (Civil Service)?
Or are an elected official.
If you did have some prevalent experience you could inform us about, that would lend some weight to your suggestion.
Or are starting out in your career and trying to find a rout to follow, starting from nowhere?
It is quite a feat of governmental development to form such an agency, your level of experience in running such establishments would also be of interest.

Since there has never been such an agency in this country there isn't much n way of having governmental experience. My experience is in tbusiness , and no I don't have a college degree nor is one needed, yes I did attend college for several.... Years when I was younger with a focus of study in science law and business management. As well as several other fields of study.
As I see it we can all agree that there are thieves a plenty in this industry. The formation and establishing if this agency would give a safe honest and dependable location for sellers to liquidate their assets.
Also I have contacted an advocacy group in my state to get the matters underway.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

I think the current US administration probably gets their gold from Ebay blobs.

It is widely believed within the industry that the US Gold reserve has been completely squandered and misappropriated to the point that Fort Knox is just about completely empty of gold.
I would live to see a world audit of precious metal stocks to see just how much smoke is being blown up peoples gluteus maximus.

Here I'll tell you... And you can research it later if you'd like.
Fort Knox does not store gold in it anymore. Hasn't for almost a decade. It does have in it a stock pile of opioids.
That's a fact.
The formation of this agency is to put a lid on the smoke blowing and a fairness in the trade of precious metals and ores.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

No need for labels first of all. Secondly Kurt will respond on his own.
Now I'm sure you have bought or even sold gold or other precious metals before. And if that is the case then you know the difficulties one could have in doing this.
The establishment of this agency is to reduce the frustration and dangers associated with this industry. By giving a location to conduct business safely.
The benefits of a state or federal government having an agency such as this would ultimately strengthen the nations currency by basing said currency on the amount of precious metals that the agency had purchased, even if in part (only partially basing the currency on the metals.)
A stronger dollar is a more stabilized economy.

 

[Justincase]

I think the current US administration probably gets their gold from Ebay blobs.

It is widely believed within the industry that the US Gold reserve has been completely squandered and misappropriated to the point that Fort Knox is just about completely empty of gold.
I would live to see a world audit of precious metal stocks to see just how much smoke is being blown up peoples gluteus maximus.

Here I'll tell you... And you can research it later if you'd like.
Fort Knox does not store gold in it anymore. Hasn't for almost a decade. It does have in it a stock pile of opioids.
That's a fact.
The formation of this agency is to put a lid on the smoke blowing and a fairness in the trade of precious metals and ores.

Sorry to have to burst your bubble, mate.
But from what you have shared, I can not see any conceivable way for you to start a new governmental agency offering to oversee precious metal trading.
On a scale of achievable goals, I would have to class this as fanciful.
If there were not already countless interested party's who already have a strange hold on the market already, you would be bogged down by the minutia and treacle like progress you can make through governmental systems for more than several lifetimes just to be told no.
At best, you might convince some uninformed people that your suggestion has a chance of success and make money out of them, but that is about it.
You remind me of a chap we had locally who convinced people to invest over £300,000 in the Crediton Gold mining company.
They had found anomalous amounts of gold and without any understanding of the subject, this man actually managed to convince people to give him money.
Even at the time I knew they would have had to dig out the entire valley to get any sort of return, no one would listen to me.
Despite his instance and enthusiasm and peoples money, that project never did go beyond his bank account.

 

[Auful]

No need for labels first of all. Secondly Kurt will respond on his own.
Now I'm sure you have bought or even sold gold or other precious metals before. And if that is the case then you know the difficulties one could have in doing this.
The establishment of this agency is to reduce the frustration and dangers associated with this industry. By giving a location to conduct business safely.
The benefits of a state or federal government having an agency such as this would ultimately strengthen the nations currency by basing said currency on the amount of precious metals that the agency had purchased, even if in part (only partially basing the currency on the metals.)
A stronger dollar is a more stabilized economy.

Yes, there is a need to label this a socialist idea, because it is contrary to how the USA has worked economically. I am surely Kurt hopeful responds.

I have bought and sold precious metals, yes. I experienced zero difficulties, nor do I need the government having anything to do with this free-marked transaction. Involving the US Government will NOT reduce frustrations or dangers. I neither want or need the government's help in this regard! This is a dangerous idea to those of us in the USA. There is ZERO benefit to your idea, only drawbacks.

 

[Elemental]

Indigo,

Two things... First, please stop using a logical fallacy in your argument. It is not up to us to research your stated facts, the burden of truth is on you to provide them to back up your argument's stance. Please show your evidence that Fort Knox has no gold.

Let me help you a bit. In regards to opioids, there is a large amount stored at Fort Knox, as this is a national strategic reserve to provide for medical grade morphine, in the event a large amount was needed. It appears that these opioids are no longer needed, but it is tied up in congress to find a way to sell them without a.) affecting US pharmaceutical companies (by selling such a reserve the price would plummet) and b.) selling it would be a loss of a multimillion dollar investment. Please see this article in regards to the topic - https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19930916&slug=1721425

Second, while the Federal government does regulate some markets, we are neither on the gold standard (Please read this wiki article for more information as to why not - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard) nor do we need the Government to do additional work as a metals exchange. You can already buy precious metals from the Government. https://catalog.usmint.gov/ So, half of what you are asking for is already there.

As I previously stated, the Government has it's own sources for precious metals. Hell, not to long ago, it was illegal to refine your own gold. A few people put a lot of work into repealing that. Also, I doubt the government wants to deal with things like this at a small scale (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-gold-swiss-fakes-exclusive/exclusive-fake-branded-bars-slip-dirty-gold-into-world-markets-idUSKCN1VI0DD) when they have their own trusted sources.

As a final note, I'm curious what your affiliation is with the Federal Government? Are you currently a civil servant or more looking to request the government to build out this system for you? Just curious. Feel free to PM me as well.

Elemental

*edited for grammatical errors

 

[kurtak]

Secondly Kurt will respond on his own.

I am surely Kurt hopeful responds.

I will "try" to post something ether tomorrow or Monday morning

Kurt

 

[kurtak]

Since there has never been such an agency in this country there isn't much n way of having governmental experience. My experience is in tbusiness

So - you are are not actually in anyway employed in government - you are just a citizen that is unhappy with what you "feel" is unfair in how "the free market" in PM (Precious Metal) trading is working for you

Therefore - you are hopping you can get enough people on board with you to propose (to government) the creation of this agency

Clearly - you do not understand the roll our government can & can not play in governing the people (which includes privet owned "business")

First & foremost - it is important to understand what "form" (kind) of government the USA is (&/or IS NOT)

The USA is NOT a Democracy (thought there is an "element" of Democracy in our government) - in a true/pure Democracy - law is decided (which would include the creation of government agencies) by a pure majority vote "of the people" --- therefore IF (the BIG IF) our government was in fact a Democracy - & you could get a majority of "the people" to agree (& vote) such an agency could be created - but we are NOT a Democracy & that is because our Founding Fathers FEARED the tyranny of the majority

Also - the USA is NOT a Republic (though there is an element of Republic in our government - in a true/pure Republic "the people" elect representatives to make the laws (including creating agencies) & again the problem with a true/pure Republic is that the "representative" can impose the tyranny of the majority by simply getting the majority of the representatives to vote on a matter

What our TRUE form of government is - is a CONSITUTIONAL REPUBLIC --- it is "important" to understand the "Constitutional" part of our Republic --- & that is because our Constitution has two parts to it

The first "part" is the "Article's" of the Constitution which forms our Republic form of government (in other words a "representative" form of government) with our representatives being elected through our Democratic "part" of the process

The second "part" is the "Amendments" of the constitution - other wise known as "The Bill Of Rights"

The very reason our Founding Fathers included the Amendments in our Constitution was because like a pure Democracy where tyranny of the majority (of people) could take root &/or control - they also feared that the same could happen in a pure Republic by a majority of tyrannical (minded) representatives (governors) could take root &/or control

By doing this - they (our Founding Fathers) put a "limitation" on what government can & CAN NOT do - & that is because we have "a Bill Of Rights" that protects the "individual" rights of it's citizens

In other words - regardless of what the majority of the people &/or majority of government representatives "may" think &/or feel about a matter - the majority is "limited" to the "rights" of "individuals" (an individual being the "smallest" of minorities) as established in the Amendments of our Constitution

Why is understanding that "important" :?:

Because it establishes a "clear separation" between the Public sector (government) of our country & the Privet sector of our country (the people in general)

In other words - as a matter of Constitutional LAW Government can NOT - GO - INTO business - going INTO business - as a matter of Constitutional LAW is strictly reserved to the Privet sector (think - of the people, for the people & by the people)

To clarify; - Government can regulate business - but it can "only" do so to a point - that point being that any such regulations can NOT infringe on "the peoples rights" to "go into" business --- government can also DO business with the privet sector --- there is a BIG difference in government regulating business (within the limits of the Constitution) &/or "doing" business with the privet sector --- & government its self actually "going into" business - which it CAN NOT DO (which by the way is what you propose Indigo Suelo)

Indigo Suelo --- There is VERY GOOD reason why our Constitution "reserves" the right of the people to "go into" business - to the people --- & at the same time "prevents" the government from "going into" business

The Constitution already gives the government the power to regulate business (within LIMITS)

Government also has the ability to do business (with the privet sector)

These two things already give government a great deal of power over the life & liberty of "we the people"

Now then - give the government - the power to go into business - & couple that with governments power to regulate business & you will SOON find that government will have a full monopoly (the only supplier/seller of a particular commodity) &/or full monopsony (a single entity's control of a market to purchase) --- in other words FULL control on who, how, when, where & why business is "done" TO the people (not for the people)

That Indigo Suelo - is exactly what you are proposing - a government agency that (#1) would be a monopsony (a single entity's control of a market to purchase) & (#2) a monopoly (the only supplier/seller of a particular commodity) giving them FULL control (through regulation) of a commodity - on both ends of the market --- in other words - they can AND WILL set a LOW purchasing price - & - can/WILL set a HIGH selling price --- they can "set" the price on both ends of the market because they have NO competition - which in turn allows them to win on both ends of the market - while you (the consumer) lose on both ends of the market

Let me sum it up this way --- When government becomes THE BUSINESS - I no longer have a choice - I have to do business with them - I am no longer free because there is no longer a "free market" --- there is no longer "competition" in the market where I can seek out a better opportunity to sell at a better (higher) price or buy at a better (lower) price - I just need to go looking for the best deal I can find in the free market --- with "your" agency I would have to sell to them at their FIXED price - or buy at their FIXED price

If you think that our current free market system (which is a competitive market) is filled with corruption & manipulation --- just wait & see how much MORE corruption & manipulation if & when there becomes only one player in the game --- which as you suggest would be the USA government

Personally - I will take the corruption & manipulation of free market "competition" (which allows for making choices) any & every day of the week --- over the corruption & manipulation of government "mandate" (which allows for NO choice)

Final words on this matter --- if you "feel" a refinery (or other buyer) is screwing you - you have choices - you can take them to court &/or look for another refiner or buyer that treats you better

If you "feel" like a seller is screwing you - you have choices - you can take them to court &/or look for other sellers that treats you better

That's how the free market works & it takes work, effort & investment on your part to find the best deals the "free market" has to offer (in other words - you are not entitled to the best deal - you have to look for & find them)

On the other hand - when government is your only choice - & government screws you - YOU ARE STUCK WITH THE SCREWING

Kurt

 

[Auful]

Since there has never been such an agency in this country there isn't much n way of having governmental experience. My experience is in tbusiness

So - you are are not actually in anyway employed in government - you are just a citizen that is unhappy with what you "feel" is unfair in how "the free market" in PM (Precious Metal) trading is working for you

Therefore - you are hopping you can get enough people on board with you to propose (to government) the creation of this agency

Clearly - you do not understand the roll our government can & can not play in governing the people (which includes privet owned "business")

First & foremost - it is important to understand what "form" (kind) of government the USA is (&/or IS NOT)

The USA is NOT a Democracy (thought there is an "element" of Democracy in our government) - in a true/pure Democracy - law is decided (which would include the creation of government agencies) by a pure majority vote "of the people" --- therefore IF (the BIG IF) our government was in fact a Democracy - & you could get a majority of "the people" to agree (& vote) such an agency could be created - but we are NOT a Democracy & that is because our Founding Fathers FEARED the tyranny of the majority

Also - the USA is NOT a Republic (though there is an element of Republic in our government - in a true/pure Republic "the people" elect representatives to make the laws (including creating agencies) & again the problem with a true/pure Republic is that the "representative" can impose the tyranny of the majority by simply getting the majority of the representatives to vote on a matter

What our TRUE form of government is - is a CONSITUTIONAL REPUBLIC --- it is "important" to understand the "Constitutional" part of our Republic --- & that is because our Constitution has two parts to it

The first "part" is the "Article's" of the Constitution which forms our Republic form of government (in other words a "representative" form of government) with our representatives being elected through our Democratic "part" of the process

The second "part" is the "Amendments" of the constitution - other wise known as "The Bill Of Rights"

The very reason our Founding Fathers included the Amendments in our Constitution was because like a pure Democracy where tyranny of the majority (of people) could take root &/or control - they also feared that the same could happen in a pure Republic by a majority of tyrannical (minded) representatives (governors) could take root &/or control

By doing this - they (our Founding Fathers) put a "limitation" on what government can & CAN NOT do - & that is because we have "a Bill Of Rights" that protects the "individual" rights of it's citizens

In other words - regardless of what the majority of the people &/or majority of government representatives "may" think &/or feel about a matter - the majority is "limited" to the "rights" of "individuals" (an individual being the "smallest" of minorities) as established in the Amendments of our Constitution

Why is understanding that "important" :?:

Because it establishes a "clear separation" between the Public sector (government) of our country & the Privet sector of our country (the people in general)

In other words - as a matter of Constitutional LAW Government can NOT - GO - INTO business - going INTO business - as a matter of Constitutional LAW is strictly reserved to the Privet sector (think - of the people, for the people & by the people)

To clarify; - Government can regulate business - but it can "only" do so to a point - that point being that any such regulations can NOT infringe on "the peoples rights" to "go into" business --- government can also DO business with the privet sector --- there is a BIG difference in government regulating business (within the limits of the Constitution) &/or "doing" business with the privet sector --- & government its self actually "going into" business - which it CAN NOT DO (which by the way is what you propose Indigo Suelo)

Indigo Suelo --- There is VERY GOOD reason why our Constitution "reserves" the right of the people to "go into" business - to the people --- & at the same time "prevents" the government from "going into" business

The Constitution already gives the government the power to regulate business (within LIMITS)

Government also has the ability to do business (with the privet sector)

These two things already give government a great deal of power over the life & liberty of "we the people"

Now then - give the government - the power to go into business - & couple that with governments power to regulate business & you will SOON find that government will have a full monopoly (the only supplier/seller of a particular commodity) &/or full monopsony (a single entity's control of a market to purchase) --- in other words FULL control on who, how, when, where & why business is "done" TO the people (not for the people)

That Indigo Suelo - is exactly what you are proposing - a government agency that (#1) would be a monopsony (a single entity's control of a market to purchase) & (#2) a monopoly (the only supplier/seller of a particular commodity) giving them FULL control (through regulation) of a commodity - on both ends of the market --- in other words - they can AND WILL set a LOW purchasing price - & - can/WILL set a HIGH selling price --- they can "set" the price on both ends of the market because they have NO competition - which in turn allows them to win on both ends of the market - while you (the consumer) lose on both ends of the market

Let me sum it up this way --- When government becomes THE BUSINESS - I no longer have a choice - I have to do business with them - I am no longer free because there is no longer a "free market" --- there is no longer "competition" in the market where I can seek out a better opportunity to sell at a better (higher) price or buy at a better (lower) price - I just need to go looking for the best deal I can find in the free market --- with "your" agency I would have to sell to them at their FIXED price - or buy at their FIXED price

If you think that our current free market system (which is a competitive market) is filled with corruption & manipulation --- just wait & see how much MORE corruption & manipulation if & when there becomes only one player in the game --- which as you suggest would be the USA government

Personally - I will take the corruption & manipulation of free market "competition" (which allows for making choices) any & every day of the week --- over the corruption & manipulation of government "mandate" (which allows for NO choice)

Final words on this matter --- if you "feel" a refinery (or other buyer) is screwing you - you have choices - you can take them to court &/or look for another refiner or buyer that treats you better

If you "feel" like a seller is screwing you - you have choices - you can take them to court &/or look for other sellers that treats you better

That's how the free market works & it takes work, effort & investment on your part to find the best deals the "free market" has to offer (in other words - you are not entitled to the best deal - you have to look for & find them)

On the other hand - when government is your only choice - & government screws you - YOU ARE STUCK WITH THE SCREWING

Kurt

AMEN!!!!

 

[Indigo Suelo]

The formation of a state agency is a difficult endeavour, but one that can be achieved.
The fact that you know how corrupt this industry is with the strangle hold as you attempted to state, the private parties have on this industry.
A quick reference is the legalization of marijuana, need I say more.
So to be brief and non insulting, if you would like to be a part of this or benefit from it stay tuned, if not bugger off.

 

[Indigo Suelo]

Well I disagree with you. And I feel that you are not as honest with yourself as you should be.
An agency established to buy precious metals from the people by the state is very beneficial for both the people and the state.
Now I have dealt with small brained closed minded fools for years, so if you are not in favor of this agency then you wouldn't have use it, but for all the others that would benefit from it would have use of it.
In short opinions are like anuses, everyone has one and they usually stink. That being stated keep your stink to yourself, as I am working to better life for not just myself but others as well.

 

[jimdoc]

Well I disagree with you. And I feel that you are not as honest with yourself as you should be.
An agency established to buy precious metals from the people by the state is very beneficial for both the people and the state.
Now I have dealt with small brained closed minded fools for years, so if you are not in favor of this agency then you wouldn't have use it, but for all the others that would benefit from it would have use of it.
In short opinions are like anuses, everyone has one and they usually stink. That being stated keep your stink to yourself, as I am working to better life for not just myself but others as well.

Good Bye.................