Accomplished Something…

[Edwin Price]

I started gold refining as a new hobby back in January. Wow did I have a lot to learn! It’s sure not as easy as many YouTuber’s indicate. I’d hazard a guess that it takes years to become proficient at recovery and refining. I’ve always been into rocks; gem hunting, gold panning, meteorites, etc. I approached this hobby with three main sources of material; (1) computer/electronic scrap, (2) old gold plated or filled jewelry and (3) local panning, mining or buying raw material. In sum, after a steep learning curve and a lot of failures I have actually recovered a few grams of gold (some from my initial wastes). I’ve got a few things cooking right now that should be fun. And, today I picked up a few grams of raw NC gold that I hope to convert to a small high grade button. Take care and enjoy your work or hobby.

 

[Martijn]

Congratulations on your progress. it's a steep learning curve indeed.
My advice to you: process your different source materials separate until you have it back in gold powder form, then you can combine them.
Some nuisance metal can disturb the recovery process or make filtering impossible, and you spoil a good batch with a "bad' one.
tin e.g. will create metastannic acid in AR, and can clog a filter, but if you digest with HCl and bleach, you can have stannous chloride in solution while precipitating, creating colloidal gold..
and keep working on those filters and waste solutions until they are clean enough to dispose in the sewage. Then the pm's should be out too. and keep reading, you can mis details. I have missed a lot over the years thinking i had it under control.

have fun, stay healthy

 

[Edwin Price]

Congratulations on your progress. it's a steep learning curve indeed.
My advice to you: process your different source materials separate until you have it back in gold powder form, then you can combine them.
Some nuisance metal can disturb the recovery process or make filtering impossible, and you spoil a good batch with a "bad' one.
tin e.g. will create metastannic acid in AR, and can clog a filter, but if you digest with HCl and bleach, you can have stannous chloride in solution while precipitating, creating colloidal gold..
and keep working on those filters and waste solutions until they are clean enough to dispose in the sewage. Then the pm's should be out too. and keep reading, you can mis details. I have missed a lot over the years thinking i had it under control.

have fun, stay healthy

Thank you for the advice and encouragement. Earlier I sure did make mistakes of mixing materials and solutions with bad results. I have neutralized and disposed of all but a few gallons of waste. Still hoping to recover some material from the sludge in the bottom.

 

[Edwin Price]

Thank you for the advice and encouragement. Earlier I sure did make mistakes of mixing materials and solutions with bad results. I have neutralized and disposed of all but a few gallons of waste. Still hoping to recover some material from the sludge in the bottom.

I would add that some of the most valuable lessons I have learned involve (1) using far less nitric acid than I believed was required to dissolve gold, (2) sulfamic acid works as well as urea to denox. And it does not create potential explosive urea nitrate, (3) Ferrous sulfate works just as good as SMB to precipitate gold without the lingering sulfur stench, (4) gold powder can be melted with a TS8000 torch and regular propane IF properly insulated, and finally (5) never throw out waste if you think it still has any gold remaining or until properly neutralized with Sodium bicarbonate (cheap). These few things helped change me from a total failure at refining to a semi successful novice. Thank you all for the help and advice.

 

[Edwin Price]

By Jove… I think I’m getting it. Doing a little better after six months learning and practice.

 

[anachronism]

By Jove… I think I’m getting it. Doing a little better after six months learning and practice.

A marked improvement Edwin. You're on the right track!

 

[goldshark]

By Jove… I think I’m getting it. Doing a little better after six months learning and practice.

I am just thinking out loud, how much Au is contained in a drop of pregnant AR solution in the spoon, versus a small filter paper dipped in it, for the Stannous test? I try to me miserly in wasting any Au. Just trying to refine the refining.

 

[Golddigger76]

I'm glad that you are finally getting the hang of it and had some success !!!!
I studied refining for several years before I opened up my bottle of nitric acid, like 8 years with a few small experiments here and there.

When I decided to take the plunge I knew every single step that was needed to refining gold jewelry and I did it with confidence.
I'm shut down at the moment trying to heal up from a full cervical fusion but otherwise I have been refining every single day since my first refining project.

As of now I have been refining for constantly since 2016 and I know a massive amount about refining every precious metals other than rhodium but I still continue to learn about all of the different methods that I still don't know and about 80% of my learning comes from this forum so if you decide to keep refining in 10 years you know how to troubleshoot and fix just about any problems that come up but you will still not know everything.

 

[4metals]

I am just thinking out loud, how much Au is contained in a drop of pregnant AR solution in the spoon, versus a small filter paper dipped in it, for the Stannous test? I try to me miserly in wasting any Au. Just trying to refine the refining.

I try to point this out to people I teach to refine, to the point where I made a spreadsheet. It is attached.

Some assumptions; refining 14 karat gold. Aqua regia will hold approx 7.5 ounces of metal per liter.

but to summarize at todays gold $2296 a milliliter is worth $10.04 and a drop about 50¢

This is for 14 karat which is gold rich when dissolved in aqua regia but it is what most of my clients refine.

Still, it pays to drip less!

 

[Martijn]

By Jove… I think I’m getting it. Doing a little better after six months learning and practice.

I love seeing succes
Shiny buttons even more

When i use that small serving dish for testing, i get a drop of solution with a glass stirring rod in the dish, and add one drop of stannous. Add a drop of water if its too dark.
It saves on gold losses.

And some advice, i would use a corningware dish as a catchpan in case the beaker breaks on that hotplate.

Before i had a corningware dish i used a stainless steel pan with some dry sand in it as a thermo shock absorber.

 

[Edwin Price]

I love seeing succes
Shiny buttons even more

When i use that small serving dish for testing, i get a drop of solution with a glass stirring rod in the dish, and add one drop of stannous. Add a drop of water if its too dark.
It saves on gold losses.

And some advice, i would use a corningware dish as a catchpan in case the beaker breaks on that hotplate.

Before i had a corningware dish i used a stainless steel pan with some dry sand in it as a thermo shock absorber.

Gotcha. I definitely need some Corningware berms.

I try to point this out to people I teach to refine, to the point where I made a spreadsheet. It is attached.

Some assumptions; refining 14 karat gold. Aqua regia will hold approx 7.5 ounces of metal per liter.

but to summarize at todays gold $2296 a milliliter is worth $10.04 and a drop about 50¢

This is for 14 karat which is gold rich when dissolved in aqua regia but it is what most of my clients refine.

Still, it pays to drip less!

Excellent! As an engineer, I love spreadsheets.

 

[Edwin Price]

I love seeing succes
Shiny buttons even more

When i use that small serving dish for testing, i get a drop of solution with a glass stirring rod in the dish, and add one drop of stannous. Add a drop of water if its too dark.
It saves on gold losses.

And some advice, i would use a corningware dish as a catchpan in case the beaker breaks on that hotplate.

Before i had a corningware dish i used a stainless steel pan with some dry sand in it as a thermo shock absorber.

I am getting gold. But I’ve yet to master obtaining the desired button or spherical shape. Mine ends up looking more like nuggets or odd geometrical shapes. Any suggestions? ty

 

[Yggdrasil]

I am getting gold. But I’ve yet to master obtaining the desired button or spherical shape. Mine ends up looking more like nuggets or odd geometrical shapes. Any suggestions? ty

Not hot enough, or not clean enough is my guess.

 

[4metals]

But I’ve yet to master obtaining the desired button or spherical shape. Mine ends up looking more like nuggets or odd geometrical shapes. Any suggestions?

If your gold is relatively pure, surface tension will tend to make it spherical. As it grows in size, it goes from BB shaped spheres to round discs, taking the bottom shape of the melting dish but flattening out from its own weight into a discus shape.

But if your melting torch isn’t hot enough to get it to melt completely you can end up with odd shapes because the surface tension only comes into play completely when the metal is completely molten. And as I type these last words I see Ygg agrees!

 

[Edwin Price]

Not hot enough, or not clean enough is my guess.

Very likely correct. I’m having trouble getting the temperatures I need. It takes too long to melt even with insulation. I may add a second torch and see how that works. And, I have yet to borax glaze my Gesswein crucible and try it.

 

[anachronism]

I am just thinking out loud, how much Au is contained in a drop of pregnant AR solution in the spoon, versus a small filter paper dipped in it, for the Stannous test? I try to me miserly in wasting any Au. Just trying to refine the refining.

Oh that's easy you just shake the liquid back into your AR.

 

[goldshark]

Oh that's easy you just shake the liquid back into your AR.

With the Stannous?

 

[anachronism]

With the Stannous?

Yes

 

[Yggdrasil]

Yes

I'm guessing it just flashes into solution leaving a smidge of Metastannic acid behind, as long as there is surplus Nitric.

 

[anachronism]

I'm guessing it just flashes into solution leaving a smidge of Metastannic acid behind, as long as there is surplus Nitric.

Certainly does- the ancient analogy of "you don't lose your gold until you throw it away" springs to mind. I don't do this when dropping, I do it prior to denoxxing. After denoxxing I keep all the tests, and put them in my next dissolve so they stay in the mix.

In fairness I've not had a Metastannic problem for twelve years Ygg. Thinking a process through and removing the potential problem before it becomes an issue is the way forwards here.