Advice - Long Term Buyer or Refinery

[stratco]

Dear All,

A little history on myself first. I began trading commodities in 2008 mainly in the oil and coal space serving the markets of India, the Pacific Islands, Indonesia and Ghana. Last year we began importing refined products into Ghana for use by private enterprises and the government. Through this we have now been presented an opportunity with PMMC (Ghana governments gold operation) and some local mines to export gold. Due to my infancy in the gold market I was just looking to seek some advice on reliable refineries who would import from Ghana and/or credible end buyers who look to purchase in larger volumes. What sort of a discount below the LME do refiners look to purchase for presuming the gold was around the 22 carat mark and in bar form? In regards to importing to the UK do they charge duty and VAT? Obviously a large amount of gold flows through Dubai and Switzerland however I was told a few weeks back countries such as Switzerland (and Germany) tend not to accept gold exports from Ghana?

I tend not to use the internet as a tool for these kinds of contacts as I know in my experience the amount of ridiculous offers that are posted in regards to oil and coal. However any enlightening information which I can then research to get myself up to speed with the market would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Best

Richard

 

[NobleMetalWorks]

Dear All,

A little history on myself first. I began trading commodities in 2008 mainly in the oil and coal space serving the markets of India, the Pacific Islands, Indonesia and Ghana.

It sounds like you are stating that you have conducted transactions with Ghana, I'm curious, what international trade deals have you conducted with entities inside the country of Ghana. I would like to know how exactly you conducted those deals.

If you are conducting trade deals in coal and oil, I would be even more interested to know if you were on the buy and sell side, and what your discount was. One of those deals can set you up for years.

Last year we began importing refined products into Ghana for use by private enterprises and the government.

If you have honestly dealt with the department that governs trade deals in Ghana, you would then be informed on how exactly to conduct a gold deal. If you haven't already asked, then you should.

Through this we have now been presented an opportunity with PMMC (Ghana governments gold operation) and some local mines to export gold.

PMMC is not a Ghana Government agency. It is a private owned company that works with precious metals, and is recognized by the Ghana Government as being the only entity endorsed to compile paperwork, assay, etc. Also, if you purchase from a local mine, your trade deal should go through PMMC.

Due to my infancy in the gold market I was just looking to seek some advice on reliable refineries who would import from Ghana and/or credible end buyers who look to purchase in larger volumes.

We have all heard the stories, I seriously doubt you will find anyone willing to risk a trade deal for gold, from Ghana. They just simply do not operate.

What sort of a discount below the LME do refiners look to purchase for presuming the gold was around the 22 carat mark and in bar form? In regards to importing to the UK do they charge duty and VAT? Obviously a large amount of gold flows through Dubai and Switzerland however I was told a few weeks back countries such as Switzerland (and Germany) tend not to accept gold exports from Ghana?

There exists good solid reason and evidence why people do not do business with Ghana whenever possible. You would be extremely lucky if you were able to conduct any trade deal, import or export, with the country of Ghana, or any West African country for that matter.

I tend not to use the internet as a tool for these kinds of contacts as I know in my experience the amount of ridiculous offers that are posted in regards to oil and coal. However any enlightening information which I can then research to get myself up to speed with the market would be much appreciated.

Thanks for your time.

Best

Richard

Richard, I can appreciate the fact you are seeking information. If I were you, I would use the search function and type in search words such as gold, ghana, scam, etc. The wealth of information you will be rewarded with will be much worth the effort and time you put forth, and should save you long hours of trying to accumulate the same information out in cyber space. I think you will quickly discover that the types of trade deals you are talking about, just simply do not happen.

Scott

 

[stratco]

Hi Scott,

Thanks for the quick reply. I appreciate what you are saying in relation to scams, etc as we have seen our fair share, however, given our position and contacts in Ghana this is simply not the case here. These are not the typical deals your average joke broker finds on the internet. These are solid relationships we have forged directly with PMMC and local miners by actually being on the ground in Ghana. I have maybe travelled there 14 times in the past 18 months and am due to fly down again in 3 weeks time. I have seen all the mining operations and physically held the gold in my hands. While you are correct in saying PMMC is a private company it is actually also a government owned enterprise.

We have a unique set of circumstances given our position within the mining community in Ghana and with that being said they have offered me the gold on a consignment basis (minimising buyer risk) provided the end buyer meets certain criteria hence why I am looking to deal directly with a refinery. Deals in West Africa happen on a continual basis and those who get burned are the ones who only see the dollar signs or have no real industry knowledge and a lack of proper connections to get things done... hence why I am here to learn about the gold trade to prevent myself from being one of those 'people'.

So you see my problem is not how to conduct a gold deal in Ghana as that has all been taken care of but rather advice on credible refineries and purchasers of gold and what terms and procedures typical gold buyers have.

And to answer your earlier question yes we have concluded oil trades in Ghana and have been for the past 18 months. Yes the deals are very lucrative but I am not the sort of person to sit around twiddling my thumbs on a beach. I enjoy my work and the benefit to me is more in closing the deal than the material value attached to it. The type of money which sets "you up for years" (depending on how much money you believe you need for "years") is in financing the trades yourself... something I do not do. I facilitate deals on behalf of my suppliers and have on going seller helper and mandate agreements with them.

In terms of discounts these vary greatly depending on the product and specification. For instance a premium crude such as Bonny Light usually attracts little to no discount and if you look at the past spot shipments of a crude such as Mellitah these are actually going for above Brent. Middle distillates have a pretty wild swing with one transaction of gasoil having a $14 discount and another later for ULSD having a $17 premium.

Anyway I'll keep trawling the boards and taking in the info available.

Best

Richard

 

[patnor1011]

Middle man without money always have hard time to make deal happen.

 

[patnor1011]

It never cease to amaze me how somebody want to offer discount on something which always sells with premium and want to look credible.
Mainly when story contain words like: gold, Ghana, local miners, discount, 22k bars...

Do you want help with finding long term serious buyer?
It is easy, contact Chinese central bank. They buy all the gold they can put their hands on. No need to offer them discount they will pay you spot.

 

[stratco]

patnor if I really wanted to I could make the purchase myself but from what I have seen most refineries and buyers look to purchase at a discount below market... it wouldn't even change the margin I make so would be pointless and a waste of available resources. Unless as you say China buy at market price... however it would never be as easy as contacting them and voila they take it.

 

[patnor1011]

Believe me that would be easier than sitting at computer and looking for imaginary buyers.

Serious buyers do have suppliers already established it is they who will not even answer your emails or phone.
I am sorry but you just waste your time here. We had our share of ghana gold would be sellers looking for serious buyers or refineries.

I am really at a loss why do you spend time typing here when you can google all serious buyers and refineries along with their contacts in about 2 minutes.

 

[stratco]

Well if you read my original post I am here for advice. My questions specifically:

"What sort of a discount below the LME do refiners look to purchase for presuming the gold was around the 22 carat mark and in bar form? In regards to importing to the UK do they charge duty and VAT? Obviously a large amount of gold flows through Dubai and Switzerland however I was told a few weeks back countries such as Switzerland (and Germany) tend not to accept gold exports from Ghana?"

Yes I have looked into refineries but as some people have had bad experiences with a few of them, it was to find those that are credible that people have good experiences with. It is a help forum after all and if it doesn't do what it says on the tin then what is the point of it?

 

[patnor1011]

Yeah, do you have question about actual refining? Then somebody might help you. Why don't you stay and do something you understand? If you really want answer to what you are asking about then you look like chef who is asking around how to repair TV.
I am sorry if I sound harsh but with all you said so far you are in the same category as all who come here talking about 22k ghana gold sold with discount.

Hobbyists and Professionals Helping One Another - that is what it says on tin.

Yes I have looked into refineries but as some people have had bad experiences with a few of them, it was to find those that are credible that people have good experiences with. It is a help forum after all and if it doesn't do what it says on the tin then what is the point of it?

Are you serious? There is probably many times more than 1000:1 ratio of people having bad experience with ghana gold on discount to people with bad experience with refineries.

 

[stratco]

"Are you serious? There is probably many times more than 1000:1 ratio of people having bad experience with ghana gold on discount to people with bad experience with refineries."

Problems people have had in Ghana is not your concern as you are not a buyer. I merely asked which refineries people have had good experiences with. A simple question. Also if VAT and duty had to be paid in the UK... another simple question for someone in the industry.

I do not need a question about actual refining as this is the "selling your precious metals" page.

I don't mind which category you put me in... if there is no help to be had then simply don't reply. You are just wasting your time and mine.

 

[Lou]

Probably better to sell into a refinery in the UAE.

Can't really recommend anyone.

 

[patnor1011]

Funny. It is you who waste time, I am happy that readers will see how to spot difference between real gold broker and "the rest"

You told us about your solid relationship and connections with PMMC and you ask such trivial (or lame) questions?
Why don't you ask your friends there, they are real source of all answers.

Btw I googled answer to your second question in 2 minutes but I am sure you are well able to do it yourself too.

 

[stratco]

No PMMC would be my source for supply side answers to which they have answered all my questions I posed to them. I am looking for answers to my buy side questions. They may be lame to you but they are relevant to me.

 

[niteliteone]

No PMMC would be my source for supply side answers to which they have answered all my questions I posed to them. I am looking for answers to my buy side questions. They may be lame to you but they are relevant to me.

You don't even know what to call this so called gold you are trying to scam people with.
22 carat gold means it has come from the jewelery industry (which formed the carat system) and is alloyed with silver, copper or other common trade metals. What you have will NOT be of any carat value.
So what DO you really have that you want to sell :?:

 

[butcher]

If someone has gold they have no trouble finding a buyer.

I believe it is scam artist who seem to have problems finding buyers, especially to people who are well informed in the subject of gold.

No body here will buy gold from Ghana, nobody here will recommend a source to sell the Ghana gold to.

As far as I am concerned even these questions, are a set up from a con artist.

I am sitting here just waiting for the chance to ban the scammer, with one finger on the easy button.

 

[Anonymous]

Butcher mate

If you believe he is a scammer then why wait?

Jon

 

[butcher]

I guess because it can be educational and funny to watch someone try and sell this gold from Ghana, What amazes me is in a country with that much gold, and businesses in gold dealing, nobody there can find anyone in Ghana to sell the gold to, what is funnier is they think we may buy it.

With reputable gold refining company's all over the world, advertising they buy gold, and they cannot find one, or at least one that would buy this gold from Ghana.

stratco is either the con artist himself or the one being conned (persuaded to do or believe something, typically by use of a deception)...

If he is a successful business man he has been lucky, he has not bought that Ghana gold yet.

 

[rickbb]

I keep telling all these Ghana sellers to send me a ton or 2 and AFTER I have it fire assayed I'll send them the money.

But after that I never hear from them again, wonder why?