After reverse electroplate & HCL/Bleach gold turned dark red

[Dav_Daddy]

Hello I've been lurking and doing a lot of reading here for the past month or so.

I tried my hand at reverse electroplating a bunch of pins from server boards, some broken up processors, and a few pieces of ep jewelry.
Everything went quite well in the end I had what appeared to be gold with a slightly red tint around the cathode and a dark powder around the anode. (sorry no pics at this juncture )

I then diluted the concentrated sulfuric acid with tap water as I washed the rest of the powers out of the pins, etc.

Next I evaporated about half the water off with Halogen work lights, (plus I'm AZ the evaporation state), transferred evaporated solution into three ceramic dishes the two of them which had the lions share of powders I boiled on my hot plates.

After I had boiled off almost all the liquid I combined the two into one dish along with some fresh HCL, (I may have added just small shot of peroxide as well maybe 100-250 ml at most.) I then brought this to boil briefly before allowing to cool, transferring to a paint mixing cup, added a healthy shot of bleach covered it and put the mixture in an ice chest which seals very nearly air tight.



After 4-5 days of adding ice to the ice chest & bleach to the solution bi-daily I pulled cup, transferred to a glass jar, heated to chase off excess bleach, and allowed solution to settle for 3-4 hrs.

When I returned this is what greeted me.



I was really excited at this point, so I decanted off the green solution from on top (copper I assume.) Transferred the gold solution into a glass jar, added some SMB and the whole thing turned dark red. Also the level dropped as in there was now a clear'ish layer of HCL above the sediment almost like it had settled further even though I had allowed it to settle fully before.

I didn't get a picture right after adding SMB. However here is picture I have just taken, all I have done further is to add some distilled water and bring to a boil once. It looks identical to the way it did before except I have transferred it to a measuring cup now.



Anyone have any suggestions on what to do? I have searched the forum and came up empty for this particular issue.

Thank you in advance.

 

[necromancer]

i didnt even finish reading the whole post

100-250 ml of h2o2 is not a small amount

i would read for more then a month or so.

 

[necromancer]

while your studying, you also may want to read up on how to set permissions on your photobucket account

by the way..... good looking dog

 

[solar_plasma]

I finished reading your post and I just don't understand, what you have done, what you are trying to tell. If you made a better description and used better terminologies, it would be easier to offer help.

Could it be, you haven't read Hoke and the other basic stuff?

 

[Dav_Daddy]

i didnt even finish reading the whole post 100-250 ml of h2o2 is not a small amount i would read for more then a month or so.

The total solution before adding h2o2 was greater than 1,600 ml (1.6 l) so I guess approx 16 to 1 ratio would have been more informative. Since starting this project I've recovered and cashed in nearly an ounce of 18k but mostly 24k gold.

To make a long story short I bought a bunch of servers at a public auction last year. I sold off everything but 6 very large, very heavy older HP servers, the local electronics recyclers wanted to give me next to nothing for them so I decided to try my hand at stripping the precious metals out of them. (If you click on one of the pictures you can see photos of them in my Photobucket account I believe. I expected to maybe get $300-$400 if I was lucky, so to say I've been happy with my results so far (closing in on $1,000) is an understatement. All of that came from following this process:

1. Depopulated the boards, cut off areas with exposed gold foils. Cut rest of board down to roughly 3'' by 3'' squares.
2. Soak in AP in crock pot on low heat for roughly a week, stirring 2 times a day, filtering and changing AP solution about half way through.
3. Collect filters from AP containing gold recovered during AP process.
4. Cover with fresh HCL, bring to a boil while stirring until the filters are dissolved.
5. After the solution cools add bleach and put container in an ice bath (mine is in an ice chest). warning: Never add bleach to HCL when it is hot! The minute bleach hits the hot solution it sounds like a shotgun went off!
6. Stir and add ice to keep solution cool, twice daily. If you don't get a strong scent of bleach when you open the ice chest add more bleach while stirring.
7. I'll usually leave it in the ice bath for 24hrs after I see no more gold shiney's while stirring. (When I reprocess the solids from this step I sometimes do recover more gold, so maybe a full week + is called for to dissolve it all?)
8. Filter solution, test for gold, if gold test is real weak and there is a large volume of solution I'll evaporate with my heat lamps for 24-36hrs. I also keep the filters from this step to either incinerate or dissolve with the next batch through at step 4.
9. Once I get a strong positive for gold I'll add SMB usually by the half teaspoonful. I know I probably use too much SMB but generally I add till I see that some of it is laying on the bottom of the container still white in color.
10. Filter again, keeping solids, which I then bring to a boil in the following pattern:
Tap Water
HCL
HCL
HCL
Tap Water
HCL
Tap Water
HCL
Distilled H20
Distilled H20
Distilled H20

From there it's off to the melting dish and then to gold buyer. As a side note if at any step I don't get my desired result I'll back up 1 or 2 steps and start again from there.

That is the process I followed except steps 1-3, basically I did nothing to remove copper from my solution. The reason I went with the reverse electroplate was on one my first attempts I had broken up around 16 processors (1 servers worth) including 2 different types. One of them fizzed a lot right from the beginning the ceramic part got dissolved into the solution and left me with a thick grey mud that I was unable to get rid of no matter what I tried. (it wasn't thermalcote, it was whole body of the cpu.) I still have the whole mess outside at some point I'm going to try incinerating the whole mess and then maybe treat it with AR? I'll probably post another thread at that time although I doubt anyone can help seeing as how I have no idea what exactly the substance is.

while your studying, you also may want to read up on how to set permissions on your photobucket account

Everything in that Photobucket account is publicly posted on the web probably in multiple places so I leave the whole thing public. It was handy when I was selling the servers as people interested in one piece could browse the rest as well. I've got one for work that's locked down for anything private.

by the way..... good looking dog

Thank you, his name is Moose.

I finished reading your post and I just don't understand, what you have done, what you are trying to tell. If you made a better description and used better terminologies, it would be easier to offer help.

Could it be, you haven't read Hoke and the other basic stuff?

I hope I made things more clear above, I took physics in high school and a semester in college. I have VERY little chemistry knowledge, mostly with excellerants, oxidizers, heat exchangers, combustion rates, all things that have next to 0 value in any practical situation outside of watching some ones eyes glaze over and face lose expression when I try to explain why you want to put in premium fuel with an octane booster if you're failing emissions on NOX, or pulling a trailer up hills.

To your second question yes I've read Hoke cover to cover (the parts dealing with gold many times), in fact I have a copy on both my Kindle and my cell phone should the need arise need to double-check something.

I am just a touch dyslexic, certain words get me, part numbers are murder, and when you guys start discussing chemical formulas in-depth I literally have to google each one, each time it is used. It is rather disheartening when you search for HNO3 and see same page for Nitric Acid come up for the 6th or 7th time, it literally feels like my eyes are crossing at times. That is what I love about Hokes book I can actually read it. Is there anything similar floating around? I don't care if I have buy it on Amazon my only problem with Hoke is that she uses Nitric Acid a lot. I have a little bit (100-200 ml probably :lol: ) which I try to avoid using. With my lack of knowledge it seemed the prudent thing to do as a mistake there could be really bad instead of painful and possibly scarring as with HCL or Sulfuric?

 

[Anonymous]

i didnt even finish reading the whole post

100-250 ml of h2o2 is not a small amount

i would read for more then a month or so.

This post from the "I refine in the woods in buckets because I've got nowhere to do it properly" guy.

Really Dave? Have a heart dude.

Jon

 

[nickvc]

What the guys are trying to tell you is this isn't a sasfe business to be involved in, the chemical reactions can injure or kill you and people round you. I you don't understand the process and it's dangers don't do it, your gold will always be there if you don't lose it but you won't if you don't follow proper safety procedures!

 

[necromancer]

i didnt even finish reading the whole post

100-250 ml of h2o2 is not a small amount

i would read for more then a month or so.

This post from the "I refine in the woods in buckets because I've got nowhere to do it properly" guy.

Really Dave? Have a heart dude.

Jon

it looks like i have been misquoted. and buckets ??? everyone loves buckets, i remember a photo of a grf mod in his "lab" buckets everywhere.
i love buckets, i get them free & 100% clean with tops & handy handles so i can carry more then one at a time.

is there a link to the

"I've got nowhere to do it properly"

quote ?

 

[Anonymous]

it looks like i have been misquoted. and buckets ??? everyone loves buckets, i remember a photo of a grf mod in his "lab" buckets everywhere.
i love buckets, i get them free & 100% clean with tops & handy handles so i can carry more then one at a time.

is there a link to the

"I've got nowhere to do it properly"

quote ?

First link that I'd suggest is this where you're doing it in a public park

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=20693&p=213525#p213525

Then there's this from this thread: http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20601&p=212329#p212329

"i was outdoors last night behind some factories processing some ceramic cpu, because i didnt want to drive to toronto to my shop, someome drove by & next thing i know the police special crime unit shows up with there guns drawn.

with hands on the back of my head i explaned that i was recovering gold from old electronics they were in disbelief thinking i was operating a meth lab, so i showed them some recovered foils from the night before & photos i had on my phone, the officers were amazed telling me they never heard of it before.

so we all had a good laugh & then they kicked me off the property for tresspassing and told me to find somewhere else next time.

next weekend i will be at the factories across the road waiting for the task force"

Enough quotes for you I trust. I hope it demonstrates the point I made?

 

[necromancer]

it looks like i have been misquoted. and buckets ??? everyone loves buckets, i remember a photo of a grf mod in his "lab" buckets everywhere.
i love buckets, i get them free & 100% clean with tops & handy handles so i can carry more then one at a time.

is there a link to the

"I've got nowhere to do it properly"

quote ?

First link that I'd suggest is this where you're doing it in a public park

http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=20693&p=213525#p213525

Then there's this from this thread: http://www.goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=20601&p=212329#p212329

"i was outdoors last night behind some factories processing some ceramic cpu, because i didnt want to drive to toronto to my shop, someome drove by & next thing i know the police special crime unit shows up with there guns drawn.

with hands on the back of my head i explaned that i was recovering gold from old electronics they were in disbelief thinking i was operating a meth lab, so i showed them some recovered foils from the night before & photos i had on my phone, the officers were amazed telling me they never heard of it before.

so we all had a good laugh & then they kicked me off the property for tresspassing and told me to find somewhere else next time.

next weekend i will be at the factories across the road waiting for the task force"

Enough quotes for you I trust. I hope it demonstrates the point I made?

no not one single quote that comes close to your quote.
not sure what you mean, the police that patrol the park and the security that patrol the park know who i am
i speak with them all the time, i am not hiding from anything

living in a city with more than 1,000,000 people in the local area the police come in all types & they do a very good job at seeing everything

now...

"I've got nowhere to do it properly"

quote ?

if i choose my shop, a park or a hole in a tree thats up to me, i make sure everything is as clean when i leave as when i got there. the only thing i leave in the woods is urine.
not a single person will have the smallest smell of what i am doing, remember this quote "i have been going to this park for 40 years" i know where the teenagers go to drink beer & where they hide to "smoke" or hide to smooch with each other, i know where the intravenous users hide, i know where & where not people will go in that park
i do not recover for others, just me. i do not spend everyday burning a 10 hour B*RC as it has been referred to here on the forum.

i may enjoy having guns pulled out on me (reminds me of where i grew up) or having deer within arms reach much more then being in my borning shop, the choice is mine, i think the demonstration is still in the post above
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/posting.php?mode=quote&f=49&p=214138#pr214136

as for having a heart....

i do think that my response to Dav_Daddy was to make sure he was safe & to be clear about studying makes things easier.
Dav_Daddy does not live in the park by my place so i cant just knock on his door to answer their question instantly.

where you in any way insulted by any of my words Dav_Daddy ??

 

[necromancer]

i forgot to say, i would rather tell the truth then lie, if you have read some of my posts you know that being honest & open is just me.....

sorry if you don't like that.


i thought the "step back & put your hands in the air story will be a classic one day"

 

[Anonymous]

Dave I wasn't in any way insulted either.

My point is that safety is paramount as you yourself have advocated (quite rightly) on many occasions. Refining in the open air in a public place doesn't work too well on the safety front unless of course you are using sealed processes and scrubbers to ensure that the environment and/or animals/plants/passing public/police officers could not get a nasty whiff of highly dangerous fumes.

If you are then please accept my profound apologies.

 

[solar_plasma]

@Dav_Daddy
Thanks for the detailed description, I think you know what you're doing. I can't trace any other small "mistakes" than that "dissolving" the not incinerated filters could cause problems or loss (more filter sludge and organics might bind gold). And your usage of SMB could get optimized: better only add as many grams as you expect grams gold and then test by stannous. If positive, add a little more SMB. Test again and so on. In large excess of SMB you could coprecipitate copper. What exactly is your problem? You got the brown stuff on the last picture after SMB and it is not just brown precipitated gold powders? ...I think I have to re-read this whole thread.

@necromancer
LOL...your open air urban survival methods ARE somewhat special, but if it's okay for the police, who am I to condemn you :lol:

@spaceships
You're ok, man, I think we had just some bad starts in the beginning (I remember the sulfuric disputation) 8)

 

[butcher]

Dav_Daddy,

I read through a little of your post (I have to admit I did not read it closely), but from what I gathered you can be loosing most of your gold in that material you are trying to process, I am surprised this is the first mess that has stumped you from what it sounds like you are doing.

I May be misunderstanding what all you are doing, (the statement of cutting the rest of the circuit board into 3x3, and then discussing using the copper II chloride and moving onto HCl bleach process).

I cannot tell for sure but that measuring cup looks to me like a cup full of iron rust salts.

If you would have asked for my help, I would say put up the chemicals and gather some more understanding.

As for the other topic, which seems to have taken over your thread, I live and refine in the woods (on my own property), but would never even think of refining in a public park or parking lot.

Safety, and responsibility, for ourselves and others , and properly treating our waste products responsibly, should be everyone’s number one concern with what we do.

Dav_Daddy,

I am sure that those who have tried to help mean well, some are experienced at refining, and some are learning, and just seem overly eager to help, in any event the advise is correct, you need to study, and get a very good understanding, not only of how to recover and refine your gold, but more importantly how to do it safely, and know how to responsibly treat your toxic waste you are generating.

Welcome to the forum; spend some time reading, and getting a better understanding, so you can soon gain more experience.
And when you do, and begin using the chemicals do it safely and responsibly, I look forward to when you have a better understanding, and seeing your refined gold buttons in our gallery section, until then I can wait, refining has helped me also with patience.

 

[steyr223]

Whats up guys how is everyone

You all know i wouldn't miss this one

Dav daddy how are you
Maybe just maybe i can help on a different subject

I live in my truck and yes i refine in parking lots
I have had many close calls
I use ti keep everything sealed airtight in the back of my astrovan till for some reason i started getting sick (came on very slowly)
Luckely my brain for no apparent reason said everything out so i put it all on top
Would you believe i got better
You get the point correct
Anyways here is another
Hcl/bleach in coffepot with gold ,the top airtight(i left room for expantion and only needed to travel. 30min)
I had my knife laying next to it (working on a mirrored surface,which it was )i jusy finished with 3000sandpaper
When i arrived at my location i was stumped ,the knife had more than a year out in the rain weather to it ,it took 60 sandpaper just to get the rust off
Needless to say i will and have not travelled with auruc chloride in the vehicle again (think of the lungs )

Many otherd to sulfuric acid does not like those thin plastic waterbottled (amazing how much about a cup does to the top of the truck in only 20 min)

I keep all my containers inside seald buckets now

I hope this helps you make less mistakes cause they can
Get deadly real fast

Thanks steyr223 rob

Ps in California it is illegal to haul chemicals without hazmat up to 1 million per chemical :-(
Even hcl you just bought for the pool

 

[steyr223]

There is one thing i forgot to mention
Where did you get your H2o2(peroxide)
What brand and what percent

I remember some one from Australia had the same problem and it was the hydrogen peroxide

Do you not bubble air into your CuCl2(copper chloride 2/ ap) or you just keep adding H2o2
You mentioned that you changed out your Ap which is not needed when bubbling air (my last bucket lasted more than a year)
When i do boards i droo them in Ap with a bubbler for 4-16
Hours then filter through three coffe filters i use a sprayer for bugs that pumps up (it clean the filters pure white)
I put the filters in a bag for later
I also put all my boards in a bucket of water to clean(usually the same i wash the filters in)
I siphon the bucket down to a cup or so
I pour the gold through a large funnle into the gator aid or ocean spray bottle add hcl and toss it on top of truck untill i am ready to refine this only takes a few hours at most

I siphon the hcl and water and add hcl when i refine
I then pour all the contents into my flask and add 50ml
Of bleach add heat if in hurry
Once i see no more gold (10min) i pour througha funnle
With a tiny bit of fiberglass as a filter(this can take minuted to hours depending how tight you pack the fiberglass
Once filtered i steam not boil for approximately 1 hour than i drop and again add heat if in hurry.
I have found if not instantly than by morning it will drop otherwise steam cause you still have bleach
Depending on your preferred purity do harolds washes on the powders

Also test (with stannous chloride) once you dissolution your gold and remember haw long it took to turn purple
Again after you filter and again after you add smb untill you get no change

Try not to blow your powder out of the melting dish

Hope this helps rob steyr223

 

[Dav_Daddy]

where you in any way insulted by any of my words Dav_Daddy ??

No not at all. I've got pretty thick skin especially as people online go. I perceived what you said as fair seeing as how I left out important information in my post while including things that weren't really necessary. It doesn't help matters that I'll start a post, leave for a couple hrs, come back, leave again, etc. so sometimes I communicate in a bit of a disjointed manner.

In thought the Photobucket thing was kinda funny it's not the 1st time I've heard that but if play with the settings I wind up breaking links I've posted over years so I leave it be.

Where did you get your H2o2(peroxide)
What brand and what percent

It's the .88 cent Wal-Mart generic hydrogen peroxide (stabilized) 3%

Do you not bubble air into your CuCl2(copper chloride 2/ ap) or you just keep adding H2o2
You mentioned that you changed out your Ap which is not needed when bubbling air (my last bucket lasted more than a year)
When i do boards i droo them in Ap with a bubbler for 4-16

The reason I change out the AP in the first couple days is that I don't have a way of depopulating the boards thoroughly without stinking up the neighborhood (as someone else touched on.) So after a day or so I filter and change the AP because its got solder, a few components that made it through.

I haven't been running a bubbler I tried it once with rubber tubing of course it melted so I shelved it. It was my understanding that as the solution takes up the copper, et. al, it reaches saturation and can't take any more metals? Does the bubbler allow the AP to absorb more? If so I've got some glass tubing I can use to hook it back up?

As far as wastes I've got a 5 gal bucket which so far has held all my waste from any nitric and sulfuric acids. I'm in AZ so much less regulated than CA. I believe there is a location to drop off hazmat down the way by the fire station. Not sure what/if they charge, when I finish this project I'll get all the details. For my spent AP I've been throwing a few cut in half soda cans in till everything drops out then decanting the now clear liquid off into empty HCL bottles. When I'm done I may try to separate the copper from whatever else is in there as there appears to be quite a bit building up

I cannot tell for sure but that measuring cup looks to me like a cup full of iron rust salts.

.

I believe you are right, I just discovered "GOLD REFINING FORUM HANBOOK VOL 1" here on the forum and it answered a lot of my questions. IMO this should be required reading right along with Hoke as the two compliment each other very well. I plan on giving it a thorough read over the next day or so as I've only skimmed it for my current problems as of now.

Thank you everyone for the advice I greatly appreciate it.

David

 

[necromancer]

here is my idea on scrubbing AP fumes

http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=20744

try going through the "build your equipment" section for ideas

 

[Pantherlikher]

Dav_Daddy
Hello and welcome to a great place to learn this hobby.

Everyone on the forum can give you a process which they use to do what you are doing. All have they're perks and quirks.
Aside from the hand books and Hoke, you need to research the forum here for post after post of processes and how we do it.
Search for AP, acid peroxide, Bleach, HCL, etc.

I see problems with losing gold in your described process...
Peroxide is an oxidizer and will dissolve gold when mixed with HCL. We use peroxide to start the reaction to get the AP going.
This dissolves allot of metals including gold. But once it gets going, put a fish air bubbler in it and leave it to do what it does. Uses Copper(2) to dissolve more copper. When air is added to keep this reaction going, the solution will drop gold out in the form of brown/black mud. When up and doing it's thing, it will then stop dissolving gold and work on any base metal still present.
(edited here) The AP will become "contaminated" when base metals other then copper are present.

Adding heat will speed it up but not continue the reaction as I understand it. You need to add O2 for AP to work. Adding more peroxide works but again, will dissolve gold as well. Wasting solution dissolving gold when you don't want it to and adding volume to deal with.

AP will last a surprisingly long time so no need to change it. You will know it's done all it can do when aqua green mud starts settling on the bottom. Remove some solution if too much and add more HCL.

Also, over use of filters becomes a problem you do not need. Decant the solutions, pouring off the liquid and repeating works great.
I have a tall container that liquid sits in for extended periods before going through a filter. Reusing the filter until it looks like it is going to fail. I then save it until I make HCL+ bleach to dissolve gold. I soak the filters first, drain to dissolve as normal, and rinse the filters. Then they get saved until I get around to mass incineration of filters just in case. O.C.D. forces me to make sure.

Now the sealed ice bath.
Are you crazy!?!
You are creating a pressure tank of potentially toxic fumes. When you open it, I really hope there is air moving rapidly away from you and you hold your breath a long time.

Sure, you can lightly cover to help stop O2 from entering and allowing chlorine to dissipate faster. But never allow gas to pressurize and then release the pressure all at once.

The ice bath will slow the reaction which is good to start. Helps keep chlorine in the solution. But after it seems to stop, let it warm up and it should dissolve more. Adding more bleach can be a problem in bringing the PH to high to drop gold as well as leaving too much free chlorine in solution. Making gold drop time longer.

As we all have stated in our own way... Learn the process from all the posts and derive your own "best method" for the material.

Hmm... the "back woods collecting and refining methods".
Working on automobiles for almost 30 years... I have grown a hatred for Mondays... Weekend mechanics bringing their disaster in and explaining to me how to fix their mistake.

As long as you leave the environment as safe as when you got there, no troubles. Or brake any laws doing so.

B.S.
...We as humans, are inventive and come up with strange ideas. But as long as it works the right way. Why not?...

 

[steyr223]

Sorry i didn't get back in a prompt manner
I have had other issues.

the hose getting melted hmmm there are certain plastics HCl does not like at all
tubing such as the fish pump for the fish tank should work great I buy mine at Home Depot quarter inch clear tubing.

on another note would you believe I was in the McDonalds parking lot 2 days ago and guess who rolled up on me
the first officer really sweet very cute she had to call her corporal who had to call a sergeant he was awesome he new the whole process but then the other sergeant showed up, complete prick :evil: I won't go into details, by the time I left quality air control, hazmat ,the fire department and some others showed up that would not say who they were

4 hours later they let me go with a warning
they said if I didn't have a business license it was a feloney and they would be checking mein the future
I need to go pay them their lunch money

needless to say I dropped my stuff off at my friends I do try to obey the law even if it is bull

Thankssteyr223 rob