Alternative Silver cell electrolysis

[123cp456]

Hi All, Has anyone seen "john geologist" video on youtube 'refining silver without nitric acid with electrolisis'

I have tried it and can confirm it works, although I 'eyeballed' the entire thing, would love to deep dive on it and understand the volumes of nitrates/volts/amps cell designs etc.
From my experience, upon starting the cell a white cloud falls from the silver used (sterling) as the time goes on it starts to go brown, then you start to see oxides collect at the bottom, my understanding is the cloud is silver chloride, which once it gets to the cathode is converted to silver oxide. I assume based on the spoon dissolving completely that the other base metal stay in solution and are parted at the point of adding HCL. I went through the lye and sugar method to obtain the final silver powder. Again i assume you can get similar purities of silver from this method as you would have the spoon been digested in nitric.

Thoughts and opinions?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Hi All, Has anyone seen "john geologist" video on youtube 'refining silver without nitric acid with electrolisis'

I have tried it and can confirm it works, although I 'eyeballed' the entire thing, would love to deep dive on it and understand the volumes of nitrates/volts/amps cell designs etc.
From my experience, upon starting the cell a white cloud falls from the silver used (sterling) as the time goes on it starts to go brown, then you start to see oxides collect at the bottom, my understanding is the cloud is silver chloride, which once it gets to the cathode is converted to silver oxide. I assume based on the spoon dissolving completely that the other base metal stay in solution and are parted at the point of adding HCL. I went through the lye and sugar method to obtain the final silver powder. Again i assume you can get similar purities of silver from this method as you would have the spoon been digested in nitric.

Thoughts and opinions?

This is double posting.
It is against the forum rules, if the other had been unreplied to I would have deleted it.
But now its not easy to fix.
Just remember in the future,
pretty please

 

[Shark]

Did I miss the other post?

 

[Yggdrasil]

Did I miss the other post?

Different thread, but it has been replied to so I can't delete it.

 

[Shark]

Different thread, but it has been replied to so I can't delete it.

My fault, I suggested he start another thread so that cell could be looked at more in depth.

 

[Yggdrasil]

My fault, I suggested he start another thread so that cell could be looked at more in depth.

I noticed.
But no need to copy paste the post
Well no harm done, most will not notice I guess

 

[123cp456]

In the video are some balanced reaction equations, but does anyone know how to quantify the figures. For example what kind of nitrate amounts per litre etc etc

 

[Yggdrasil]

In the video are some balanced reaction equations, but does anyone know how to quantify the figures. For example what kind of nitrate amounts per litre etc etc

If there are balanced reactions it will be in plain sight what it is.

 

[123cp456]

If there are balanced reactions it will be in plain sight what it is.

well lets follow the assumption your making that I am clearly a moron.
What are the amounts of nitrate salt to use in a 5litre cell if i wanted to dissolve 1kg of sterling silver and what kind of volts/amps would produce the best results?

 

[Shark]

A good starting point of the volt and amps is the lower point at which no hydrogen bubbling occurs. I am trying to find some older notes on making nitric acid that can help determine the amount of sodium/potassium nitrate used for making nitric acid. They may have some help in this cell. I am to chemistry illiterate to do it off the top of my head.

 

[123cp456]

I started off with 3.5volts which produces the white cloud instantly and no hydrogen bubbles at the cathode, I don't remember the exact amps, but i seem to remember it was close to my copper cell which runs about 1.5A

 

[Yggdrasil]

well lets follow the assumption your making that I am clearly a moron.
What are the amounts of nitrate salt to use in a 5litre cell if i wanted to dissolve 1kg of sterling silver and what kind of volts/amps would produce the best results?

No that was not my indication, but in order to balance an equation one has to specify what chemical you are using.
So I found the question unnecessary and moot.
Just check the balancing and both the amounts and chemicals will be there.
Unless your question was something totally different.

 

[Shark]

I would try potassium nitrate as it produces a better amount of acid. While sodium works potassium seems cleaner as well.

 

[BonesWild]

A good starting point of the volt and amps is the lower point at which no hydrogen bubbling occurs. I am trying to find some older notes on making nitric acid that can help determine the amount of sodium/potassium nitrate used for making nitric acid. They may have some help in this cell. I am to chemistry illiterate to do it off the top of my head.

Check out NurdRage on YouTube. He explains how how you can make nitric with calcium nitrate and a sodium bisulphate ( PH down crystals.) It's how I make it, but a slow process to aquire a fair amount.

 

[Martijn]

well lets follow the assumption your making that I am clearly a moron.
What are the amounts of nitrate salt to use in a 5litre cell if i wanted to dissolve 1kg of sterling silver and what kind of volts/amps would produce the best results?

Just to be clear, do you want to know the amounts to dissolve 1kg of silver to make 5 liter electrolyte or the amounts to process 1kg of silver in a 5 liter cell?

 

[123cp456]

Just to be clear, do you want to know the amounts to dissolve 1kg of silver to make 5 liter electrolyte or the amounts to process 1kg of silver in a 5 liter cell?

Hyperthetically if the cell was 5litres and I had a 1kg of sterling, what would the ratio of nitrate salt in the solution be

 

[Martijn]

Just watched the video. Funny how he claims to have developed the process.

This is a tapwater silver cell. Well described here on the forum.

The KNO3 is not even in the equation so that shows it plays no role, or he failed to describe the complete reaction. I guess it helps with conductivity like NaCl does.

Stoichiometrically balanced amounts are imortant when you want to convert the silver oxides with nitrates. In the video he does it with a lot of HCl. More than needed.

If you want to make AgNO3 with poormans nitric and silver you will consume some nitric to oxidize the silver and need more than the calculated nitrates. How much more depends on your process. Slow is more economic in most cases.
But i fail to see the purpose of the KNO3 in this case.

 

[123cp456]

I've been experimenting with sulphamic (not sulfuric) and an electrolyte for a silver cell. I can dissolve the silver quickly and end up with a mossy scrambled egg deposit, which has layers of crystal like growth along with a beige,almost rubbery consistency.

I tried a straight melt and the result is a bright silver button, surrounded by lots of green and beige flux.

The solution in the cell has a light blue colour to it, similar to that seen in a nitrate cell. I don't have access to an xrf or anything but I would be happier and feel like maybe this is viable if there wasn't so much flux after.

Any thoughts?

 

[GoIdman]

I've been experimenting with sulphamic (not sulfuric) and an electrolyte for a silver cell. I can dissolve the silver quickly and end up with a mossy scrambled egg deposit, which has layers of crystal like growth along with a beige,almost rubbery consistency.

I tried a straight melt and the result is a bright silver button, surrounded by lots of green and beige flux.

The solution in the cell has a light blue colour to it, similar to that seen in a nitrate cell. I don't have access to an xrf or anything but I would be happier and feel like maybe this is viable if there wasn't so much flux after.

Any thoughts?

When I work with "dirty" silver I usually use CuSo4 (copper sulfate) solution in my cell to "disassemble" the mix of silver and usually copper mixture. It is a very slow process but it doesn`t create dangerous waste, since I evaporate the water collect the copper sulfate crystals and reuse at another time.
For the process I use a plain phone charger 5V-1000mA (1A) connected to the cell.
Not necessarily the best practice, but it doesnt create waste, and it separates the silver and copper quite well.
Regarding refining, using a silver cell does the trick without creating unnecessary waste solutions. Electrolite is reused and refreshed from time to time.

This is my approach to silver, Since I hate creating waste. And I`m not a good friend with acids

 

[123cp456]

When I work with "dirty" silver I usually use CuSo4 (copper sulfate) solution in my cell to "disassemble" the mix of silver and usually copper mixture. It is a very slow process but it doesn`t create dangerous waste, since I evaporate the water collect the copper sulfate crystals and reuse at another time.
For the process I use a plain phone charger 5V-1000mA (1A) connected to the cell.
Not necessarily the best practice, but it doesnt create waste, and it separates the silver and copper quite well.
Regarding refining, using a silver cell does the trick without creating unnecessary waste solutions. Electrolite is reused and refreshed from time to time.

This is my approach to silver, Since I hate creating waste. And I`m not a good friend with acids

I use a similar set up for gold recovery.

I assume you are left with silver anode slimes after the copper is pulled out. What do you then go on to do with the slimes in order to refine them? is it a silver nitrate cell?