aluminium melting

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tonyd said:
the remark regarding the dollar was not meant to insult anyone it was simply the best rate of exchange i have ever had and it allowed me to enjoy florida even more so please accept my apologies if it upset any one.

No apology necessary. You've said nothing offensive, and have displayed exemplary manners.

The comment was mine, reflecting on how the dollar has lost its value. A good example is an ounce of gold. As far as I know, it still weighs 480 grains, yet it now takes almost $900 American dollars to purchase one. I can still remember when it cost only $35. Gasoline was also 22¢/gallon!

Very heavy sigh! :(

Harold
 
I know what you mean about the weak dollar, 18 months ago i paid a dollar 20 for gas, this year it was two dollars 30, and also food prices were a lot more I THINK WE ARE ALL IN FOR A HARD FEW YEARS.

Any way i started building a mould like you suggested today as i am going to start melting some ali down to see how it goes

will let you know in a few weeks time.

Thanks for the help Harold your advise on refining is priceless.
 
You're very welcome, tonyd. Hope some of it is useful.

I'll be interested in hearing how the aluminum project goes.

By the way, if your objective is only to melt (not setting up a foundry for making castings), you might consider making a furnace in keeping with the one I described. It's very simple, and requires no tools for melting. Crucibles and other tools can prove costly. I seem to recall that the one I described was used with a mold to catch the discharge, so there was no further handling. You'd need two molds, so you could exchange one for the other as the first one was filled. Just a thought.

Harold
 
Harold if you have any ideas on building a furnace to melt the aluminium, I would appreciate your thoughts and ideas, what size mould would you suggest. I have my own fabrication company constructing trucks for horse transportation ( horseboxes) so i have plenty of equipment and tons of aluminium sheet scraps as well.
 
tonyd said:
Harold if you have any ideas on building a furnace to melt the aluminium, I would appreciate your thoughts and ideas, what size mould would you suggest.
I'd suggest you size it in keeping with the volume you expect to process at any one time. Too large can be a negative in that it isn't easy to use a small portion of a large ingot, while small ones can be added with little effort. At some point, the ingots you sell will be re-melted---so you want to insure that they aren't too large. Don't have a clue what size that may be, however. If I had to venture a guess, I'd say keep the ingots smaller than 5" wide and 12" long.

If you have a salvage yard in mind where you intend to sell your aluminum when you have enough, it might pay you to inquire of them if there is a penalty for melting. You may be surprised to find it is worth more before melting than after, although I don't know that. Just trying to insure you don't go to a lot of work and lose on the proposition.

Depending on the volume you melt, the ingots you create may not be attractive. Considering they'll pour on a low volume, but continual basis, I expect you'll have some cold shuts, but that shouldn't affect their value. Starting with the mold well preheated would help in that regard.

As far as the furnace goes, I think my advice would be to size it in keeping with the size of items you intend to melt. The smaller, the less expensive it would be to build and operate, and it would yield a correspondingly smaller amount of aluminum. My thoughts would run towards an interior diameter of roughly 12", or slightly larger. It need not be very deep----and should be formed such that there is a low side, inside, where the discharge is located. Sadly, I do not recall the size of the one I mentioned, but it was not very big. Less than 4' tall, and less than 3' diameter on the OD. He ran his without a lid.

There are a number of burner designs on the market that run without a blower (propane), but if you intend to use waste oil, you may have to design one on your own. The oil can be sprayed though a nozzle, but unless it's well filtered, and the pressure is quite high, it may not perform well. Unfiltered oil will clog the nozzle easily, and often.

If you have compressed air at your disposal, you may be able to use air pressure to atomize the oil-----I understand there is such a design on the commercial market. I am not familiar with its operation.

I would suggest the port for the burner be located slightly above the bottom, tangent to the inside diameter. It would be desirable for the flame to swirl around the lining. Once heated, the lining will melt newly introduced aluminum quite quickly.

You can expect a reasonable amount of dross, which has value as well, although you may not find a ready market. It contains a substantial amount of oxidized aluminum. If it is returned to major aluminum refiners, it is once again reduced to aluminum via arc furnaces.

The furnace could be made of a castable refractory, or rammed, using a rammable refractory. Casting might be easier. Both methods would require an inside form, plus one for the burner port. The furnace may not require a lid, although it would be more efficient with one. One that swings away easily (on a pin that is fastened to the exterior housing) might be the solution. The furnace could be poured (or rammed) in a large steel barrel. Here in the States one might choose a 55 gallon drum, or one slightly smaller. They are easily cut to length with a torch, or even cut with an abrasive saw.

I, too, have an interest in an oil fired furnace, although mine would be intended for melting bronze and brass, using a crucible. The design would be similar, regardless of the application. I'd appreciate hearing from you with anything you may discover in that regard. I'll keep you in mind if I uncover anything of interest.

Sorry I'm not more help.

Harold
 
I like the use of waste oil, and yes filtering is very important if you are using a regular burner nozzle. When Harold was talking about using air to atomize the oil I believe he was referring to something based on a “Babington burner” design. The principle is to blow air through a very small hole or slit in a ball or sphere allowing warmed oil to flow over the surface. The air in the ball breaks through the film of oil on the exterior giving a fine atomized pattern. Just like the blowhole on a whale coming up exhaling. This burner is usually placed in a tube to form a burner assembly with a plate partially blocking the output, that once hot helps stop flameout with any unburned oil collected and sumped to recirculate. The rear of the tube has adjustable air control for controlling the fuel/air mixture. The advantage of this is that the oil does not need to pass through a small orifice, only air. If you have a gear pump for your oil supply you could even forgo filtering and just clean out the unburned residue occasionally.

I have not built one of these but have done considerable research into them. My interest was because I have an engine that I run on waste vegetable oil that I get free so it would be a free heat source for the house. The engine is actually for a genset I am building. The oil does need filtering for the engine as it is a cold start diesel with injectors.
 
Oz said:
“Babington burner” design. The principle is to blow air through a very small hole or slit in a ball or sphere allowing warmed oil to flow over the surface. The air in the ball breaks through the film of oil on the exterior giving a fine atomized pattern.
Oz,

Very interesting. Can you enlighten me-----if that system is used, assuming one uses a gear pump-----how is the oil metered? The pressure output of the pump that is used in my oil fired boiler (heating oil #2) is set @ 100 psi. I would imagine you'd have to use some kind of orifice to control output, otherwise you'd have a run-away flame. I'm having a hard time seeing a way to use the oil without filtration, regardless of the nature of the application. I am, of course, referring to used oil. I can get a fair amount of drain engine and transmission oil. I'd appreciate your views on the subject.

Very nice post, Oz.

Harold
 
once again Harold your input regarding melting aluminium is very helpful.
Just had an idea, my central heating boiler is being replaced very soon i think i could adapt this to use as a furnace as it would have pump and air control for fuel already set up and can be used with red diesel or kerosene. your thoughts on this.
I will also check with my local scrap yard for ingot versus just scrap prices this week.
Also do you think i could adapt the boiler for incineration of mother boards etc therefore gaining two operations with one unit.
sorry about all the questions did not think this thread would go this far. :eek:
 
my thoughts exactly with the furnace i'm building, incineration of boards. the unit i'm building is claimed to be hot enough to melt cast iron, was wondering if this would be hot enough to a; melt together any metals in the boards and b; be hot enough to burn any nasties out of the exhaust fumes?
my plans fall into line with Harolds suggestions, direct melting, no crucible, a drain off for the molten metal and burner running on waste (filtered) oil with forced air. the exception to what Harold suggested is that i plan to pour into a loaf tin, the type you would use when making bread, i've used this method before to make ali bricks, the only problem is over time the tins buckles with the heat, but ingots don't need to look good do they?
marty
 
True incineration is a more controlled affair. From what I know of it (and granted that's not a whole lot). It's generally a two chambered furnace. The first volatilizes the combustibles at high temps. The second also at high temp with the addition of air oxidizes the volatiles to more basic forms. A bag house would then collect the more elemental forms that would survive both furnaces oxides of lead, zinc, and a whole bunch of others. Many compounds are broken down but many still remain.
 
Regarding incineration of the computer boards---be very careful where you do it and with who you let know about it. It is quite the offense if you do it any quantity. As I recall, most of those boards are some type of bakelite with other phenolic polymers in there. Some contain chlorinated compounds.

Generally speaking, the toughest things (organic wise) to incinerate are halogenated compounds. They require really high temperatures and extreme oxidizing conditions. They also produce the acid gas of whatever halogen is in there. This usually requires about 1700*C and a minute or so residence time.


As far as oil burners, I believe I already posted a link to Cameron's oil burner. Extremely efficient, dirt cheap, and so simple to use--it will melt iron.
I don't melt with oil that often anymore, but I had a modified Brinkley-Burner which basically looks like >-< two truncated cones put together. It would melt cast iron with ease. It was propane preheated, then I'd turn on the oil (gravity fed). The oil would go through a cast in (the burner was made of a 18" piece of 4" duct work that I rammed with 3200F refractory) preheater installed in the back end of the burner to decrease viscosity. I used a leaf blower and butterfly valve at the back end.

When it was really going it would put out a 5' cone of blue-white flame. I used it for burning up tree stumps. Wide open, it drank about 4 gallons of vegetable oil (90:10 diesel) per hour. It was a good burner, but it was a pain to make. It rolled off my bench one day and broke :-/


You ought to check out some of the reverbatory furnaces built by hobbyists out on the web.

I've seen people buy up old crucibles on ebay (#60s), build a beehive furnace out of clay and perlite and drill a hole in the crucible and lute on a clay pipe an inch or so in diameter and a few inches long. They'd plug one end of the pipe and wait till everything was molten in the crucible and all the dross skimmed off, then they'd bust the plug on the tap and have a preheated ladle ready. Pretty simple, but quite effective.
 
marty said:
i plan to pour into a loaf tin, the type you would use when making bread
You can expect a different outcome if you pour copper based alloy to a bread tin as compared to pouring aluminum. One of the hazards is that the alloy will fuse to the tin. Even a mold that has been well seasoned can yield that problem----where the molten metal makes contact where it is poured, if no other place. I've had it happen with cast iron, even ductile iron molds. I think I'd advise against the idea and move towards a mold with much greater thickness.

Harold
 
i agree with Harolds comments on pouring copper based alloys into a tin, i was referring to pouring ali into the tin mould, the copper based alloy from incinerating boards i hadn't properly thought through, suggestions gratefully received on that one.
 
I think what Lou eluded to when he mentioned chlorinated compounds is Dioxins. Dioxins, if memory serves are created by combustion in the presence of chlorine. Dioxins are a persistent environmental toxin and are the primary toxin in many of the US super fund sites. No one, not even the big corporations responsible, want the bill for such lingering problems.
 
Harold,

Sorry it took me a bit to get back to you, I’ve been very busy.

I have read the later comments in this thread and I would tend to agree that a Babington may not be ideal for melting metals but I get the impression that you were interested in the set-up of these. Again I have not built one, but talked to several people in detail that have. The gear pumps they were using were from regular home oil furnaces, they had no troubles with not filtering used motor oil or transmission fluid, most did run used vegetable oil from deep fryers through an old t-shirt though.

As you mentioned oil fired boilers are high pressure, but they are low volume. They used them as a sump pump as they are more resistant to wear than most other pumps to the fine metallic debris found in waste oil.

To understand it better I’ll describe the path of the oil and the lighting of these. Fuel is fed by gravity from a main fuel tank to a secondary fuel tank of about a half gallon to gallon in size that in turn feds the burner by gravity. The secondary tank is kept full from the main with a valve and float similar to what you have in your toilet. A simple brass gas cock would be used for flow control from the secondary tank to the burner. Flow does not need to be very finely tuned as you just need it great enough to form a film over your ball with the surface tension. If you wanted finer control you could spin-up an oversize needle valve on the lathe.

There is a pilot light that is propane. First you turn on your air pressure to the ball (this is relatively low pressure/volume), then light your propane pilot. Then open your oil feed to the outside of the ball. Once lit the back-plate I described earlier heats up to a red heat, then the pilot can be turned off. If turned off too early the cold thick oil tends to blow out. Here is where the usefulness of a 1 gallon secondary tank comes in. Since you only atomize the oil in front of the orifice in the ball that your air comes through, you have excess oil that runs into a sump tank. In the sump area a float switch is located to trip your gear pump to sump the excess oil back up to your secondary tank to recycle. After a while the oil gets warmed by circulating through the burner heat zone changing its viscosity and will sheet over your ball thinner giving better atomization and combustion.

Some have used glow-plugs or resistance wire for igniters if they preheat the oil in a crock pot first as their secondary tank. This is more important with thicker oils. The main advantage of these is that you can burn almost any oil with little variance of the controls. I was going to use this as a batch heater for hot water home heating, backing up a solar parabolic water heater on the cloudy spells. If you were to want to set it up as a hands off automatic furnace or water heater you would need to always use an oil of the same viscosity. I like the fact that I can burn virtually any used or new fuel oil or vegetable oil without the tedious fine filtering required to not clog a typical burner nozzle. It is easier to have clean air.

This is getting off topic from refining in the configuration I am talking about and it may be best if it is taken to PMs unless someone else here is interested.
 
Thanks, Oz, for the information.

Regards taking it to PM's, I'm of the opinion that it may be of value to others, for application in a waste oil fired furnace. If we find that is not the case, and some are unhappy with the conversation, certainly, we'll take it off the forum..

Harold
 
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