Anyone trade gold bullion for .999 unmarked ingots?

[Bootsy]

I have a customer who has me refine his e-waste and wants pure gold back as payment. Now he wants to trade the ingots that I have given him (unmarked .999 fine and 10 - 30 Troy ounces each) for U.S. Gold Eagles or Maple Leaf coins or bars that have a well known and established maker's mark without any money changing hands. Of course, he knows it will cost him but doesn't want to lose too much doing so. Any ideas?

 

[EDI Refining]

Where you located ? If Canada, I can do this for you.
if in the U.S, I believe fournines will offer something similar

 

[Bootsy]

Dear EDI GOLD: Thank you very much for the info but I am in the U.S.

The only companies I have contacted so far want to value my .999+ pure at 3% back off spot and then charge me $50.+$100. per coin over spot plus S&H both ways. I really dont want to offer this to one of my best customers.

After nearly 45 years of refining low grade materials that contain more than 10,000 Troy ounces of pure gold per year, I still have not ever made a good connection with any big dealers or refiners. The few times I've tried to work with them I always seem to get nothing but doubletalk which makes me feel very uneasy - it's like they are just waiting for a chance to really screw me. I rarely sell any pure. Most of my customers want it back, less my fees. When I do have pure for sale I rarely get more than 97% - 98% less S&H for anything under 100 ounces so I'd just as soon return it as payment.

Thank you again.
Boots

 

[lazersteve]

Boots,

You've already made your share by refining the gold to 999+, why not direct your friend to a buyer that pays the 97-99% without fees (less shipping) and he can buy whatever gold coins he wants with the money from the best supplier.

It seems to me like you are looking for someone to buy the refined gold at a decent rate and then turn around and discount the coins for you in the same transaction. I don't think you will find any one that will do this, but I could be wrong.

Minted coins always trade for more than spot when coming from a reputable source.

I'm like you, I would much rather refine for a share and return the refined gold than deal with the extra steps of selling the gold and handling any money.

Welcome to the forum,

Steve

 

[Bootsy]

Thanks Steve,
Many of my best customers are these "cash only" old school guys who own scrap metal yards and, in many cases, probably haven't conducted any business of any kind in their entire lives where they had to give or receive a receipt. Selling the pure outright gives them income, paid by a check, that they should report and pay taxes on.

I suspect they want to trade my pure ingots for smaller units of one ounce that they will find far easier to sell when they are ready. My guess is that, by trading, and no money changes hands, they do not feel like they generated any taxable income.

ie: A ton of scrap yard e-waste they already own is refined to pure - I then take out my share and give them an ingot of pure - then they trade my pure for 1 oz Gold Eagles - now they've only reduced the volume their scrap occupies rather than "selling" anything.

Thanks again.

 

[lazersteve]

I know where they are coming from.

Bottom line is someone down the line has to pay our Uncle Sam, whether they want to or not. I find it much easier to pay him and sleep well at night than not to and worry about the future of my business and family.

Steve

 

[RGJohn]

In the last 45 years, you have returned to your clients nearly one half million ounces of gold. Surely they are sufficiently intelligent to realise that you are far too busy to run errands for them and that they must handle the conversion of the gold into more negotiable form themselves. You are a refiner, not a coin dealer. What if they wanted to trade for an automobile or piece of real estate? Would they expect you to handle that as well? Stick to your beakers and flasks would be my advice.

 

[Fournines]

Coins, especially American Gold Eagles, have pretty large premiums on them (sometimes $60 over spot).

When we have customers who want coins back, if we don't have any in stock, we have to source them from coin dealers. The premium paid gets passed on to the customer.

Ingots from JM, Credit Suisse, or PAMP will have lower premiums (and are still worth the same amount. Gold is gold...but shhhhh...don't tell anyone)

 

[Harold_V]

In the last 45 years, you have returned to your clients nearly one half million ounces of gold. Surely they are sufficiently intelligent to realise that you are far too busy to run errands for them and that they must handle the conversion of the gold into more negotiable form themselves. You are a refiner, not a coin dealer. What if they wanted to trade for an automobile or piece of real estate? Would they expect you to handle that as well? Stick to your beakers and flasks would be my advice.

I refined for more than 20 years, and provided services such as that at no charge----although it was rare to get involved with bullion coins (mostly because few cared to have them, as I refined for manufacturing jewelers. Fact is, I accumulated several that would have been melted).

The point is, providing services is one of the ways you lock in customers----for example, selling or buying gold, which I did for spot price. I did that at no charge, but ONLY for customers. You'd be surprised how many are willing to use your services if they can't buy gold from you otherwise. Sure, it takes a little time, but the time, for me, was well spent. I retired when I wasn't quite 55 years old. I was so busy I couldn't keep up. I have a very strong belief in my business practice. People with an attitude of making money at all costs tend to fail in business. And they should! It's what they deserve.

Harold

 

[RGJohn]

In the last 45 years, you have returned to your clients nearly one half million ounces of gold. Surely they are sufficiently intelligent to realise that you are far too busy to run errands for them and that they must handle the conversion of the gold into more negotiable form themselves. You are a refiner, not a coin dealer. What if they wanted to trade for an automobile or piece of real estate? Would they expect you to handle that as well? Stick to your beakers and flasks would be my advice.

I refined for more than 20 years, and provided services such as that at no charge----although it was rare to get involved with bullion coins (mostly because few cared to have them, as I refined for manufacturing jewelers. Fact is, I accumulated several that would have been melted).

The point is, providing services is one of the ways you lock in customers----for example, selling or buying gold, which I did for spot price. I did that at no charge, but ONLY for customers. You'd be surprised how many are willing to use your services if they can't buy gold from you otherwise. Sure, it takes a little time, but the time, for me, was well spent. I retired when I wasn't quite 55 years old. I was so busy I couldn't keep up. I have a very strong belief in my business practice. People with an attitude of making money at all costs tend to fail in business. And they should! It's what they deserve.

Harold

Thanks Harold for a different perspective. I'm still learning to walk and my inventory of beakers and flasks is small so I guess I was interpreting the OPs post through those 'rose colored glasses'. My thinking was that somebody refining 200 ounces per week of gold had enough to keep them busy but then perhaps he has staff to help. I've had experiences in the past (unrelated to refining) where folks would ask for services unrelated to our actual agreed upon work and yes, I always tried to help the customer. But I've also had customers such as the one who hired me to twice daily feed and walk the dog while they went on vacation in Hawaii for 5 weeks. As they left they showed me where the cans of paint and rollers, etc were and told me that since they didn't care for the smell of paint fumes that I was to paint the entire interior of the house while they were gone. I considered that a trifle beyond the pale. And people in Colo who vacation in Hawaii for 5 weeks at a time do not live in small houses.
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To return to the original topic, how would you then handle this request? How would one convert X troy ounces of ingot gold into American Gold Eagles, Maple Leafs, or whatever ? He stated that even after 45 years in the business that he is stumped as to how to do it. The problem being not the actual conversion of one for the other, but rather the premium that is incurred. If say, ARA paid him 98-99% for the bullion, and he immediately locked in coins at a reputable dealer's, how small could he make that difference? If he had 100 ounces in hand, could he expect to get 95 one ounce coins? That's an overall 5% loss. If 100 oz is worth $140000, that would represent a $ 7K. Seems kind of steep. But if we're talking only 10 ounces, then it's $700 and that doesn't seem tremendously out of line.
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Thanks in advance,
John

 

[Lou]

I will trade gold bullion coins for .999 + gold, PM me for details.


Lou

 

[thegoldcoinguy]

Let me know just how much you have. I have several large quantity buyers and I can certainly do a "like kind" exchange. We generally work with minimum 100 ounce sales on up to 1MT sales, so I am sure we have a place for your metal. I'd like to speak to you on this matter, just get back to me if you still need a source.

Schaun

 

[Joeforbes]

In the last 45 years, you have returned to your clients nearly one half million ounces of gold. Surely they are sufficiently intelligent to realise that you are far too busy to run errands for them and that they must handle the conversion of the gold into more negotiable form themselves. You are a refiner, not a coin dealer. What if they wanted to trade for an automobile or piece of real estate? Would they expect you to handle that as well? Stick to your beakers and flasks would be my advice.

I wonder how much of that half million ounces of gold he refined more than once. Meaning how much of it he refined, sold, went back into production, and then made its way back to him again as scrap.

Just something to think about. :lol: