Assay From Inspectorate
- Thread starter Franciz
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To all,
I am thinking that Franciz here is going to have to use a metal collector. If the assay is accurate it totals <0.3%. When you melt pure silver you expect slag losses of about 0.5% or so.
I would suggest copper.
Alternately, Franciz, you can melt, pour off about 80% of melt so you don't pour off metals at bottom of the crucible, add new material/flux mixture and repeat many times. Eventually you will collect enough metal at the bottom of the crucible to pour into a mold and recover.
I think the reason the metals don't collect is that there are not enough to collect.
I am thinking that Franciz here is going to have to use a metal collector. If the assay is accurate it totals <0.3%. When you melt pure silver you expect slag losses of about 0.5% or so.
I would suggest copper.
Alternately, Franciz, you can melt, pour off about 80% of melt so you don't pour off metals at bottom of the crucible, add new material/flux mixture and repeat many times. Eventually you will collect enough metal at the bottom of the crucible to pour into a mold and recover.
I think the reason the metals don't collect is that there are not enough to collect.
I meant to say that your assay from inspectorate shows about 0.23% total metals, copper, silver and gold. That is just not very much and will be hard to collect by melting.
If you take say pure silver, and melt it using flux, it is expected that you will not recover 100% of the silver after melting. You will lose about 0.5% of the initial weight to the slag.
If you take say pure silver, and melt it using flux, it is expected that you will not recover 100% of the silver after melting. You will lose about 0.5% of the initial weight to the slag.
Generally with a solid powder you are correct and a collector is needed, but this material was simply borax. The borax will remelt and mix with the newly added borax and soad ash and be thinned by the fluorspar to the point where the metals will drop through the very thin liquid.
I have melted both sweeps requiring a collector and sweeps made of just old crushed slag, the slag always warrants an attempt to recover the values by thinning and it usually is effective.
Please note that the slag resulting from the thinning may still contain payable values if it is further processed into a powder, but then again so will the resulting slags from a process using a collector.
I have melted both sweeps requiring a collector and sweeps made of just old crushed slag, the slag always warrants an attempt to recover the values by thinning and it usually is effective.
Please note that the slag resulting from the thinning may still contain payable values if it is further processed into a powder, but then again so will the resulting slags from a process using a collector.
My question is why add new borax to the old borax, it seems wrong to me to dilute this material even further. Add whatever needs to be added to thin the flux of course.
It also would be nice if this old flux could be used to flux another recovery process, to me that seems better than spending all this time and energy and you only recover the values in the old flux and get no other benefit from the process.
It also would be nice if this old flux could be used to flux another recovery process, to me that seems better than spending all this time and energy and you only recover the values in the old flux and get no other benefit from the process.
qst42know
Well-known member
Franciz
Did you melt in your home made cone mold?
Your mold may be too narrow to allow your metals to settle. Have a look at the proper molds on this page.
http://www.lmine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LMS&Category_Code=slag_molds
Did you melt in your home made cone mold?
Your mold may be too narrow to allow your metals to settle. Have a look at the proper molds on this page.
http://www.lmine.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LMS&Category_Code=slag_molds
Skippy,
The flux formula to prevent bead hang up in the flux on a fresh melt is 2 parts borax, 1 part soda ash, and 1/4 part fluorspar. If you only used borax, as Franciz did, the used slag should be 100% borax. So the mix for used slag which was straight borax is 1 part old slag, 1 part borax, 1 part so a ash, and 1/4 part fluorspar.
Franciz,
You said your original slag was borax and the formula I listed will thin the old borax very effectively. In your 15 years accumulating this material, if it was kept relatively clean and stored in drums, the formula should work. It will be obvious to see the thinning effect the fluorspar will have on the flux.
If your collection of used slag was piled in a heap in the back yard and all types of dirt and crap were included in with the slag that is a different story. Then the use of a copper collector may be necessary. Your goal after fluxing is to have a thin glassy looking slag free of any trapped particles, then your values will likely be on the bottom in the cone mold. If the slag is still thick and trapping particles then you have more in there than you started with. You have the formulas, now you have to experiment with what you have.
The flux formula to prevent bead hang up in the flux on a fresh melt is 2 parts borax, 1 part soda ash, and 1/4 part fluorspar. If you only used borax, as Franciz did, the used slag should be 100% borax. So the mix for used slag which was straight borax is 1 part old slag, 1 part borax, 1 part so a ash, and 1/4 part fluorspar.
Franciz,
You said your original slag was borax and the formula I listed will thin the old borax very effectively. In your 15 years accumulating this material, if it was kept relatively clean and stored in drums, the formula should work. It will be obvious to see the thinning effect the fluorspar will have on the flux.
If your collection of used slag was piled in a heap in the back yard and all types of dirt and crap were included in with the slag that is a different story. Then the use of a copper collector may be necessary. Your goal after fluxing is to have a thin glassy looking slag free of any trapped particles, then your values will likely be on the bottom in the cone mold. If the slag is still thick and trapping particles then you have more in there than you started with. You have the formulas, now you have to experiment with what you have.
I know 4Metals will help you get that gold, :lol: Just do not give up.
Almost there.
Almost there.
Dear all,
Can i don't add new borax and do it in another way?
New Borax cost USD1000/- per M/T
Fluorite Cost USD200/- per M/T
Soda Ash Cost USD550/- per M/T
I will lose money or no profit if i do it this way.
Can i replace new borax with silica sand?
Thanks and best regs....
Franciz....
Can i don't add new borax and do it in another way?
New Borax cost USD1000/- per M/T
Fluorite Cost USD200/- per M/T
Soda Ash Cost USD550/- per M/T
I will lose money or no profit if i do it this way.
Can i replace new borax with silica sand?
Thanks and best regs....
Franciz....
First the soda ash was too expensive,
Then the fluorspar,
Now the borax.
You've been melting with just borax for 15 years and now its too expensive.
You have been given some good suggestions here both with thinning and with using a copper collector. I think its time you do some work at the furnace.
Then the fluorspar,
Now the borax.
You've been melting with just borax for 15 years and now its too expensive.
You have been given some good suggestions here both with thinning and with using a copper collector. I think its time you do some work at the furnace.
4metals said:
Dear 4metal,
what do you mean actually?
For today spot gold price value of gold in my used borax is about USD1,525/- and value of silver is about USD130/- in 1 metric ton of used borax.
If i am going to recycle 1m/t of used borax i need to add in 1m/t of new borax which it already cost USD1000/- per m/t and 1m/t of Soda ash which cost 550 this has not include Fluorite and oil for the furnaces.
Teach me how to make profit if there is a need to add in new borax and cannot find other item to replace new borax?
Franciz......
Franciz said;
If this is true, you have over 1700 ounces of silver per ton. Quite different from your assays. I said early on that it is difficult to sample that quantity accurately, you should take small samples from different ares of your slag to get a better idea of what you have. I doubt you have 1700 ounces of silver per ton either.
You speak of buying tons of the fluxing chemicals before you know if it will work for you. Buy a bag of soda ash and a bag of fluorspar and use your existing borax to run some tests on your pile. If your slag is simply beads hung up in slag as you say, you will be able to collect the beads in a cone mold.
Report your results when you have some from small samples of your flux pile.
If this is true, you have over 1700 ounces of silver per ton. Quite different from your assays. I said early on that it is difficult to sample that quantity accurately, you should take small samples from different ares of your slag to get a better idea of what you have. I doubt you have 1700 ounces of silver per ton either.
You speak of buying tons of the fluxing chemicals before you know if it will work for you. Buy a bag of soda ash and a bag of fluorspar and use your existing borax to run some tests on your pile. If your slag is simply beads hung up in slag as you say, you will be able to collect the beads in a cone mold.
Report your results when you have some from small samples of your flux pile.
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It's clear to me that Franciz is seeking a method of recovery that involves no cost. That's not going to happen, and it may well be that the value of the material to be recovered is smaller than the cost of recovery. That's one of the things you must consider when you create messes such as have been reported. Had proper melting techniques been employed at the outset, there wouldn't be a ton of value containing slag to be processed.
Franciz, you're simply going to have to make a decision. Invest in the needed supplies, factor in the cost of fuel and your time, and see if it warrants the effort required. If you feel it does not, you may be able to sell the slag to a processer. That was one of the options open to me when I ran my waste materials, but I ensured that I used a flux recipe that didn't permit much to be left behind. An assay of the slag determined it couldn't be processed economically for what little remained. You may well be in the same situation.
I get the impression that if the question is asked enough times that the "magic secret" of how to extract the values will be disclosed.
There is no "magic secret". Franciz, you have been advised by one of the more knowledgeable people on this forum. If he doesn't provide the answer you seek, it's most likely because you aren't realistic in your expectations.
Harold
Franciz, you're simply going to have to make a decision. Invest in the needed supplies, factor in the cost of fuel and your time, and see if it warrants the effort required. If you feel it does not, you may be able to sell the slag to a processer. That was one of the options open to me when I ran my waste materials, but I ensured that I used a flux recipe that didn't permit much to be left behind. An assay of the slag determined it couldn't be processed economically for what little remained. You may well be in the same situation.
I get the impression that if the question is asked enough times that the "magic secret" of how to extract the values will be disclosed.
There is no "magic secret". Franciz, you have been advised by one of the more knowledgeable people on this forum. If he doesn't provide the answer you seek, it's most likely because you aren't realistic in your expectations.
Harold
I have try to smelt it without adding new borax today.
100g used borax.
80g soda ash light.
50g fluorite.
10g lead bar
The result is great, It really flow like water. But i get no gold and can see a little bit of silver.
The silver is too little so i did not recover it.
May i know how you guys know if those precious metal has completely sink to the bottom when smelting?
100g used borax.
80g soda ash light.
50g fluorite.
10g lead bar
The result is great, It really flow like water. But i get no gold and can see a little bit of silver.
The silver is too little so i did not recover it.
May i know how you guys know if those precious metal has completely sink to the bottom when smelting?
