Black sand pyrite sulfides and gold

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If I was you, this is what I would do:

1.) Buy a good 14" plastic gold pan online like attached pic - $15 USD.
2.) Buy a set of plastic classifying screens that will fit on the 14" gold pan and a 5 gal. plastic bucket - $53 USD. for 5 screen set. $89 USD for a 9 screen set.
3.) A large plastic tub that you can fill with water and pan into.
4.) A 60x jewelers loupe.

Grind your cons without roasting - screen the grind - pan each screen size - inspect each screen size. You'll be surprised what you learn about your material.

As an example, I am currently working on analysing the results from my first incineration of 600 gms. of IC chips from RAM memory. I am going to post my results (and screw ups) soon. I am still trying to figure out why, when I test panned my < 100 screen of residue left over from two AR boils/decants, that I found these two pieces gold that had survived the AR dissolves. :!: :shock: :!:

The pics next to the plastic coated paper clip shows the two pieces and the value of learning good panning techniques. The gold pan is truly an elegant solution! :D

Practice . . . practice . . . practice . . . and then practice some more.

Go after your free gold first. Let us know how the Gold Cube worked on your black sands.

James
 

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cosmetal said:
Forgot to ask before . . . why the pic of the coins, etc.? :?:

Were they found at your deposit? :?:

James

No not the deposit im about to work on but id wrote a lengthy piece about something i do know quite a bit about to do with black sands on beaches and occurance of gold within them unfortunately it cant of saved correctly.

On a beach finding scrap in black sand is a good indicator theres gold there too. Old coins nails screws bullets etc. Brass lead n copper.
The coins sit on and in the sand the gold underneath on bedrock. By gold i mean what ive found is coins, rings, brooches, pen nibs of pm gold alloys, old pocketwatch gold cogs, chains, wire, all of the same in silver too.

My local beach isnt anywhere near a gold geological area so no nuggets unfortunately lol. But if you are in a natural gold area then if u start spotting what ive mentioned id dig down and look. Its worth looking even if you arnt see if you get lucky and find a lost gold item.

Black sand on beach is a concentrated deposit much like a river or alluvial concentrate deposit but you dont want to be looking in the highly magnetised stuff look in the other type if you get what i mean. Its fine textured and really dense. Non magnetic.

Ive been pulling old coins from a natural rock outcrop on a riverbed for the last 20 years too. Its got a groove acting like a natural riffle. Everytime theres a floodwater more stuff redeposits. Makes me wonder why you guys on rivers carrying gold dont put a riffle on the bed a big deep one. Dont matter if it sediments over once floodwater hits it itll scour out clean. Then itll do a good job as the river calms back down trapping the goods and keeping it till you come clean it out.
 
Cosmetal the gold in your photo may have come from your sieves. Or elsewhere.
Try a few drops of AR on them in a testtube
Then squash em n try again see if theyre coated.
If it still fails its not gold id say.
Theres a platinum group pm impervious to AR i dont recall which one offhand.

Funny enough my pan arrived today its obscured in the pic behind that huge nugget lol.
My goldcube was due too. Perhaps monday.. cant wait tbh.
Ive crushed the sulfides panned out the slurry and recrushing the bigger bits until its all slurry.

Your chips experiment sounds interesting. I know more chemistry than geology... dont throw anything away until your finished. Take your time preperation is key.
 
cosmetal said:
The gold pan is truly an elegant solution!
Go after your free gold first. Let us know how the Gold Cube worked on your black sands.

James
The sieve and pan and large bucket are truly an elegant solution. If you add a hip tall stool or table, so that you don't have to bend over to sieve/pan all day, then you know how to dress!. :D

It's so much easier to pan each sieved size material, than panning it all without sieving, that is worth repeating many times!. :G

5 sieve sizes are more than enough, 3 usually do the job for me. I've seen old diamond miners with 9 screens though. 30 years ago, they used to throw away the fine gold that passed through the last screen. Not anymore!.

Fwiw: If you really want to learn to pan for gold, work with a diamond artisan miner for a day. They go through tons of material fast, and do not miss any gold ever, unless they throw it away!. Diamonds are 3.5 in density vs quartz 2.65 ... that's why.
 
"Cosmetal the gold in your photo may have come from your sieves. Or elsewhere.
Try a few drops of AR on them in a testtube
Then squash em n try again see if theyre coated.
If it still fails its not gold id say.
Theres a platinum group pm impervious to AR i dont recall which one offhand."


I'll try your AR suggestion. But, I know for a fact they're not from my sieves. I washed the residue from my second AR boil/decant directly from the beaker to my gold pan. Panned in my large plastic tub wearing nitrile gloves.

For some unexplained reason, my gold "spidey sense" told me to try it. :D They were calling to me . . . wierd! :shock:

James
 
cuchugold said:
cosmetal said:
The gold pan is truly an elegant solution!
Go after your free gold first. Let us know how the Gold Cube worked on your black sands.

James
The sieve and pan and large bucket are truly an elegant solution. If you add a hip tall stool or table, so that you don't have to bend over to sieve/pan all day, then you know how to dress!. :D

It's so much easier to pan each sieved size material, than panning it all without sieving, that is worth repeating many times!. :G

5 sieve sizes are more than enough, 3 usually do the job for me. I've seen old diamond miners with 9 screens though. 30 years ago, they used to throw away the fine gold that passed through the last screen. Not anymore!.

Fwiw: If you really want to learn to pan for gold, work with a diamond artisan miner for a day. They go through tons of material fast, and do not miss any gold ever, unless they throw it away!. Diamonds are 3.5 in density vs quartz 2.65 ... that's why.

I guess I'm already "dressed to the nines" as I've got the 9 screen set and use/pan each screen. Adjustable waist high stool too! :D

You are so right about it being easier to pan sieved size material. You need uniform particle size so as to not force your fine gold out of the pan by the larger waste particles.

I would love to hone my panning skills with a diamond miner. I guess my 2018 vacation should be to the Crater of Diamonds in Arkansas http://www.craterofdiamondsstatepark.com/ 8)

James
 
im1badpup1 said:
Hi everybody im new to the forum and prospecting. A quick history of myself is ive a long term interest in geology mineralogy and a practising amateur chemist over the last 20years. It doesnt mean im smart or educated though.

Anyway i was recently hunting minerals corundum and garnet and came across an alluvial blacksand deposit. Ive never panned before but took a sample home and panned with a enamel pie tin and lo behold found small and microgold20171015_131321.jpg

An idea of scale i put a flake on my fing8ernail here20171015_131321.jpg20171020_093129.jpg

Theres small lead particles also present at the bottom of the pan with the gold.

Ive tested to be sure and it is indeed gold

Ive ordered a goldcube to seperate the free gold for now.

Ive been studying the other material in and around the alluvial black sand deposit and theres more of interest..

Theres a lot of sulfides. Pyrites etc. Both hydrothermal vent deposits and free ore released from vein deposits by weathering. I really could do with some direction in whats the best thing to do with these. In processing them. And the black sand concentrate. Il elaborate on this with some pictures of minerals and streaks in next post

Hello :)
You wrote : "Both hydrothermal vent deposits and free ore released from vein deposits by weathering"
How can you say there is hydrotermalism in your zone?

The native gold source can be very far from where is found as alluvial gold


The stones don't look like they are bearing gold
The density of the stone is not a native gold indicator (can be an indicator of iron )
The smell of sulphur when you hit the rock is probably pyrite (FeS2)
The streaks on the rock are veins, the brown/red probably is pyrite (oxided) or other minerals like mica, and the yellow could be dirty quartz or calcite or other minerals, can't say from the photos.
The gold can be yellow orange dark light, but got the same "appearance " of the alluvial gold.
Can be reddish, but will never have an "iron stain"
The silver shiny probably is a mica, need more photos to say, but there is no gold in the stones of the photo.

Could you do some nice pics to the flakes to see the shape?

How can you say the alluvial gold you found have something to do with the quartz vein assay?

The pebble on the pan is OK, but try test different places on the stream to see the gold ratio difference
And practice to gain experience in prospecting is always the best tip
 
I can say because ive researched the geology of the area from its original volcanic formation and vents mapped out. The secondary igneous intrusion zones later on and vents with faulting zones are mapped too. Some are hydrothermal although on land now. Theres a raised beach or theres hydrothermal exposure on there pegmatite dykes and weathering. The quartz vein deposits are in places exposed. Theres garnet, pyrope in some pegmatite deposits. Theres sappire around some other volcanic activity. Its stipulated conclusively in the scientific papers that the sulfides and some tellurides in areas what have formed in so called hot zones all have a ppm count for gold some other pgms in one intrusion belt. The sedimentary sulfides contain no pms. Theres partially metamorphosed red sandstone containing a gold value.
Theres been godnose how many iceages but ive read the mapping data of glacier flow direction for the last 6-8 glaciers their terminal point etc.
So most of what i say as fact isnt my words its a conclusion from literature ive read. Id still be scratching my head lol.
The alluvial gold no mother lode source has ever been verified. Theres at least two sources unknown for the alluvial gold.
The mining been done historically in the area excepting the alluvial recovery has been for the telluride and sulfides and gold recovered from that. Theres been no motherlide veins of native gold discovered historically afaik its all from sulfides and tellurides.
If it was made to sound like i was stating that the sulfides i have are from a specific quartz vein only with 1800ppm au reading i never meant that. That same vein has wildly varying values as it runs exposed across the country down to just several ppm. The sulfide content dips inline with the au ppm drop.
I still dont know if the ppm values are for a batch of "quartz vein ore containing sulfides the sulfide content 5-8% with a value of 1800ppm" i think ive looked at such a wide range of historical testing data, methods used i cant make a true conclusion from it and the only way to know what the erratic sulfide deposits contain is to test them myself. As you say warmgold theyll vary in composition from place to place ive noticed already several things about the concentrated deposits in different areas. Different materials dominate. Arsenopyrite in one spot. Garlicy smell.
I dont know what the acetic acid smelling one is yet though.
Theres a lot of lead and silver mixed ore deposits too.
That lead in my picture should have an unusually high ag content if history is correct itll be interesting to find out. Not profitable but im primarily an amateur chemist so its interesting to me still.
Think of scotlands geology. Thats the source of most of the material im dealing with.
Id like to isolate and collect some rare platinum group metals for my element collection at some point too.
Anyway my cubes arrived! Off to pick it up and prep it for tomorrow :D
Edit the cube arriving. Its at a delivery hub in transit. Damn.
 
im1badpup1 said:
I can say because ive researched the geology of the area from its original volcanic formation and vents mapped out. The secondary igneous intrusion zones later on and vents with faulting zones are mapped too. Some are hydrothermal although on land now. Theres a raised beach or theres hydrothermal exposure on there pegmatite dykes and weathering. The quartz vein deposits are in places exposed. Theres garnet, pyrope in some pegmatite deposits. Theres sappire around some other volcanic activity. Its stipulated conclusively in the scientific papers that the sulfides and some tellurides in areas what have formed in so called hot zones all have a ppm count for gold some other pgms in one intrusion belt. The sedimentary sulfides contain no pms. Theres partially metamorphosed red sandstone containing a gold value.
Theres been godnose how many iceages but ive read the mapping data of glacier flow direction for the last 6-8 glaciers their terminal point etc.
So most of what i say as fact isnt my words its a conclusion from literature ive read. Id still be scratching my head lol.
The alluvial gold no mother lode source has ever been verified. Theres at least two sources unknown for the alluvial gold.
The mining been done historically in the area excepting the alluvial recovery has been for the telluride and sulfides and gold recovered from that. Theres been no motherlide veins of native gold discovered historically afaik its all from sulfides and tellurides.
If it was made to sound like i was stating that the sulfides i have are from a specific quartz vein only with 1800ppm au reading i never meant that. That same vein has wildly varying values as it runs exposed across the country down to just several ppm. The sulfide content dips inline with the au ppm drop.
I still dont know if the ppm values are for a batch of "quartz vein ore containing sulfides the sulfide content 5-8% with a value of 1800ppm" i think ive looked at such a wide range of historical testing data, methods used i cant make a true conclusion from it and the only way to know what the erratic sulfide deposits contain is to test them myself. As you say warmgold theyll vary in composition from place to place ive noticed already several things about the concentrated deposits in different areas. Different materials dominate. Arsenopyrite in one spot. Garlicy smell.
I dont know what the acetic acid smelling one is yet though.
Theres a lot of lead and silver mixed ore deposits too.
That lead in my picture should have an unusually high ag content if history is correct itll be interesting to find out. Not profitable but im primarily an amateur chemist so its interesting to me still.
Think of scotlands geology. Thats the source of most of the material im dealing with.
Id like to isolate and collect some rare platinum group metals for my element collection at some point too.
Anyway my cubes arrived! Off to pick it up and prep it for tomorrow :D
Edit the cube arriving. Its at a delivery hub in transit. Damn.

Hello :)
What do you mean with been mapped?
You intend a geological map of the area? In which scale?

Hydroterm
 
ste="im1badpup1"]I can say because ive researched the geology of the area from its original volcanic formation and vents mapped out. The secondary igneous intrusion zones later on and vents with faulting zones are mapped too. Some are hydrothermal although on land now. Theres a raised beach or theres hydrothermal exposure on there pegmatite dykes and weathering. The quartz vein deposits are in places exposed. Theres garnet, pyrope in some pegmatite deposits. Theres sappire around some other volcanic activity. Its stipulated conclusiv7ely in the scientific papers that the sulfides and some tellurides in areas what have formed in so called hot zones all have a ppm count for gold some other pgms in one intrusion belt. The sedimentary sulfides contain no pms. Theres partially metamorphosed red sandstone containing a gold value.
Theres been godnose how many iceages but ive read the mapping data of glacier flow direction for the last 6-8 glaciers their terminal point etc.
So most of what i say as fact isnt my words its a conclusion from literature ive read. Id still be scratching my head lol.
The alluvial gold no mother lode source has ever been verified. Theres at least two sources unknown for the alluvial gold.
The mining been done historically in the area excepting the alluvial recovery has been for the telluride and sulfides and gold recovered from that. Theres been no motherlide veins of native gold discovered historically afaik its all from sulfides and tellurides.
If it was made to sound like i was stating that the sulfides i have are from a specific quartz vein only with 1800ppm au reading i never meant that. That same vein has wildly varying values as it runs exposed across the country down to just several ppm. The sulfide content dips inline with the au ppm drop.
I still dont know if the ppm values are for a batch of "quartz vein ore containing sulfides the sulfide content 5-8% with a value of 1800ppm" i think ive looked at such a wide range of historical testing data, methods used i cant make a true conclusion from it and the only way to know what the erratic sulfide deposits contain is to test them myself. As you say warmgold theyll vary in composition from place to place ive noticed already several things about the concentrated deposits in different areas. Different materials dominate. Arsenopyrite in one spot. Garlicy smell.
I dont know what the acetic acid smelling one is yet though.
Theres a lot of lead and silver mixed ore deposits too.
That lead in my picture should have an unusually high ag content if history is correct itll be interesting to find out. Not profitable but im primarily an amateur chemist so its interesting to me still.
Think of scotlands geology. Thats the source of most of the material im dealing with.
Id like to isolate and collect some rare platinum group metals for my element collection at some point too.
Anyway my cubes arrived! Off to pick it up and prep it for tomorrow :D
Edit the cube arriving. Its at a delivery hub in transit. Damn.[/quote]

Hello :)
What do you mean with been mapped?
You intend a geological map of the area? In which scale?

Hydrothermalism don't mean always gold (not in quantity to call it a deposit, in 0.0X ppm the gold is everywhere on earth/sea)
But the document you found have to be considered.
In the first or second post you wrote the vein contain 50 ppm of gold (or 50 grams ton, if I don't mistake with numbers) is a rich deposit (and in reality, probably is more richer in a good spot)
is this correct?

You said"I come to this conclusion by my own etc": geology is most based on conclusions, very few of it is been demonstrated scientifically (it's hard to repeat on lab for example the mountain creation process :mrgreen: ) so it's good considering "every" conclusion

Read the glacier texts again, its important , they could have taken some of the alluvial gold (coming from "who knows) in the territory. You can try with sluice box in the area where glacier have placed the sediments carried during his passage ( a big alluvial gold spot, obviously the glacier must have carried gold veins in his passage..)
U can check for the big areas in a geological map (marked as glacier alluvial deposits)

I think you will find, checking the internet, if the glaciers on your zone carried gold...they are big geological movements that interact with huge part of land/world
And in millions of years they concentrated the gold (and heavy minerals/metals)in alluvial deposits, in everypart of the territory they passed on (obviously the ratio of suspected gold varies, and can be null in some deposits, a lot should be considered), so I think it is noticed on the web

Why are you saying there are two unknown source for alluvial gold?
And how you have detected silver and lead?

The acetic smell I don't know, could be something organic... here in the forum there are users better in chemistry than me(A LOT better, scaring sometimes :shock: )

Morris
 
I got these little pieces of metal when i panned the pyrite id hammered to pieces20171107_125333.jpg

Warmgold theres historical text lead was picked up from fields round here in small pieces what had an unusually high silver content. I think that stuff im finding when panning or metal detecting is the same stuff. Ill find out soon because ive enough to test now.

I know what you mean about the glaciation. Its took me about 6months even more of a good few hours reading each day to go through all the available literature online and im still coming across new stuff.
Im playing catchup with the literature but my knowledge from actually walking the areas of the geology is very good. I spot deposits bearing concentrated heavy materials easily. And remember where they are too.
Heres an example from a river deposit loaded with roman coins.View attachment 1

The coins keep getting trapped in the heavy sediment. Its about 6inch deep a couple metre wide and 50ft long. Ive had brooches lead gold wire and more coins from there than shown in the picture.
 

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Nice coins!!!!
For properly recovery you must mill more finely the ore you already processed to avoid losses. I mill the ore using an old corn mill, work very good but if I go to concentrate the milled ore by panning I lose most of the gold (gold in layer/film on small quartz/matrix grains)

About the picture, it looks gold from the color but you have to verify with an acid test
It's not pyrite but could be other mineral like mica, you can watch with the microscope if you have one
 
A cornmill i just might be able to get hold of! My familys all farmers and farm engineers lol. I remember seeing one an old antiquated cast iron thing with a handle to turn. Millers flour? I think thats what size it ground too.

Is the sieve set cosmetal posted complete for very fine materials? Ive not bought a sieve set yet having been unsure the sizes il need. Ive just basic 1/4 1/8 and 1mm.

Im going to weigh a kilo of both the pyrite ive crushed and the blacksand ive saved at the bottom of the pan and try process further.
So for now ive crushed as fine as possible by grinding using a big sledgehammer on concrete.
Ive used a n52 neodynium magnet to remove any magnetics. I noticed some material was only slightly magnetic.
Im going to roast both seperately for several hours a dull red heat and increase heat the last hour.
(Well ventilated on farm) its a one off test not something il be repeating or scaling up.
Go over again with magnet.
Il have a read up and probably use an acid eg hcl aqueous to try remove base metals. Hopefully i can use more selective acids only certain elements dissolve into.
Ive a friend whose a jeweller i need to see about the machine they use to identify precious metal alloys and their % if its possible il try reduce use hankchapman flux with a collector metal and smelt a button for analysis.
Im open to suggestions for alternative proceasing methods
I doubt very much there will be anything profitable but i enjoy the practical the chemistry is different to what ive practised before.
I know it seems im wasting my time and i should be chasing the freegold but im looking after a dying relative. I cant get out much so its a welcome distraction testing n processing the materials at home.

The mica warmgold, is it the stuff what crushes n crumbles into very fine see through flakes? It looks like a shiny silver ore deposit in host rock?
I took a pretty looking erratic home recently i think i ided it as alkali feldspar granite with what i later noticed appeared to be mica. Ive a pic here 20171107_111918.jpg
 
"Is the sieve set cosmetal posted complete for very fine materials? Ive not bought a sieve set yet having been unsure the sizes il need. Ive just basic 1/4 1/8 and 1mm".

5 Screen Set SE GP2-5 SET 5-Piece Set of Patented 13-1/4" Stackable Sifting Pans:
• Top diameter of each pan: 13-1/4”
• Mesh screen sizes: 1/2", 1/4", 1/8", 1/12", 1/20"
• Wire thickness: 1.4mm, 0.95mm, 0.6mm, 0.45mm, 0.35mm
• Stackable design that sits nicely in a 5-gallon bucket
You can buy any screen size individually.

9 Screen Set SE GP2-9 SET 9-Piece Set of Patented Stackable 13-1/4” Sifting Pans:
• Top diameter of each pan: 13-1/4”
• Mesh sizes: 1/100”, 1/70”, 1/50”, 1/30”, 1/20”, 1/12”, 1/8”, 1/4", 1/2“
• Wire Thickness (mm): 0.10, 0.14, 0.17, 0.30, 0.35, 0.45, 0.60, 0.95, 1.40
• Stackable design sits nicely on a 5-gallon bucket
You can buy any screen size individually.

All will nest into each other and the 14” Gold Pan SE GP1014G14:
• Diameter: 14 inches
• Material: plastic
• Color: green
• 1/8-inch deep round base to better trap gold
• Two different types of riffles: shallow & deep
You can use the pan to catch all of the <100 mesh material.

I bought mine from Amazon.

Good luck! :D

James
 
Thanks cosmetal ill get them ordered. My goldcubes arrived! Just fitted a heavy duty 1/8 s/s sieve screen on top panel. Im hoping i can just dump the material on and brush it through n swipe the larger bits off. N just pop it off and knock the bits what get stuck off now and again20171108_112740.jpg
 
Yes the shining stuff on photo is mica.
Now that you find a sample you can place it aside a gold specimen, you ll notice mica reflect light as a mirror if u turn the specimen on light, you ll see a terminated smooth face reflecting light, gold it ll never reflecting light as a mirror (as silver and copper) because crystals shape is different (check the net for photos)

Noone think you are wasting time, the discovery is done only trying. The wasting of time is a part needed in every experience

Anyway, unless you find the area with the gold veins you can see by eye, almost always the alluvial gold is much more effordable and already extracted and concentrated
You don't need crushing, roasting, acids, getting rid of nothing... Just collect it all
And according to your past photos, presuming its gold, looks like quite pure , so refining will be quite easy (and very worthing)

Morris

What do u use as flux in the smelting?
 
Ive not smelted anything yet. Il research some more and come up with whatever suits the materials im smelting and the method i use. Theres a bit of variation. I noticed one method on youtube the guy directly smelts a sulfide mix while others oxidise by roasting first.
I had a go with my goldcube last night. Only did four 5gallon buckets as a test and not in an area id thought would be loaded. But..
Ive a dozen or so nice little gold pieces wedged in the vortex matting il have to tweezer out and hundreds upon hundreds of small gold in the concentrates20171110_114538.jpg
I had no idea there was anything much really in the cube. The gold in the pic runs right through them concentrates.
I cleaned the cube after each bucket. I ended up with 3/4 a pan of concentrate what i panned down to that im just to tired to finish it off tonight.
I did notice larger gold flakes trapped after the bucket id gathered from under riverrocks though.
 
im1badpup1 said:
Ive not smelted anything yet. Il research some more and come up with whatever suits the materials im smelting and the method i use. Theres a bit of variation. I noticed one method on youtube the guy directly smelts a sulfide mix while others oxidise by roasting first.
I had a go with my goldcube last night. Only did four 5gallon buckets as a test and not in an area id thought would be loaded. But..
Ive a dozen or so nice little gold pieces wedged in the vortex matting il have to tweezer out and hundreds upon hundreds of small gold in the concentrates20171110_114538.jpg
I had no idea there was anything much really in the cube. The gold in the pic runs right through them concentrates.
I cleaned the cube after each bucket. I ended up with 3/4 a pan of concentrate what i panned down to that im just to tired to finish it off tonight.
I did notice larger gold flakes trapped after the bucket id gathered from under riverrocks though.

Dang, man! :shock:

Forget the hard stuff like smelting. Run your Cube until you wear out it's riffles! :D

You also have some (what appear to be) beautiful copper mineral specimens like azurite and malachite. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some turquoise hiding around some where. Wikipedia says that there is turquoise in the Cornwall area of England

"Other notable localities include: Afghanistan; Australia (Victoria and Queensland); north India; northern Chile (Chuquicamata); Cornwall; Saxony; Silesia; and Turkestan".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquoise

Don't sleep - dig! :shock:

James
 
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