Non-Chemical Brown Mud

[skykinghunter]

I got the brown mud a pyrex coffee pot, after 24 hours; it remains brown mud, nothing has settled to the bottom. What did I do wrong: i.e., does it need more time? more precipitant?
If needed; can I boil off the liquid?
what is this liquid? it does test positive for gold.
thank you anyone for the anticipated help.
skykinghunter

 

[qst42know]

It would help to describe the chemical process you used. And the steps you have taken to get to this point.

 

[butcher]

brown mud is usually gold chloride, but not always.
what was you process and steps up to now?

 

[skykinghunter]

It would help to describe the chemical process you used. And the steps you have taken to get to this point.

I've used the ISHOR cell, got the green liquid and precipitated with the ISHOR included "odor free precipitant". Note; I have no clue what the chemical names are; GC salt, precipitant/scrubber powder, etc.
Thank you for the prompt reply.
Skykinghunter

 

[skykinghunter]

brown mud is usually gold chloride, but not always.
what was you process and steps up to now?

butcher,
the tin test indicates the presence of gold...I think?
the resulting color was a dark color, hard to tell if it was purple brown or purple black.
Thank you for the reply,
skykinghunter

 

[qst42know]

Unfortunately I am unfamiliar with the Ishor chemical process. Perhaps someone else here is.

Usually a dark test indicates a considerable amount of gold, did you use enough precipitant for the estimated content?

If you used an excess of solution for the material you were processing it would require much more precipitant to drop your gold.

 

[butcher]

tin chloride,stanous chloride is the test for gold and other metals, that is probably shor's gold test solution. for gold would give violet to a black on your spot test.
now I have never used the shor , but have looked at old patents, and I believe there "GC" salts are Ammonium Chloride, an anode of gold made and a catalyst added to anode to get the electrolisis started which could be just table salt NaCL. there is a membrane or bag that allows base metals in solution through it but not the gold or PGM'S. cathode of a graphite rod and a scrubber to collect the gases from reaction at cathode. probably sodium hydroxide lye caustic NaOH.
is this your system ?
now they sell a special precipitant, Probably also a common chemical, maybe a sulfite,
do you smell sulfur from the reaction of your precipitant?

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

look...I know just a few things about gold..looking at many gold refiners I have seen that this problem is very common...you have formed a gold colloidal solution (here in Mexico the term is "enchocolatarse" that means "make it like chocolate", caused by an excess of tin)...here gold refiners add concentrated sulphuric acid and heat breaking the colloidal solution until they get the brown mud settled.

I hope it helps.

Manuel

 

[skykinghunter]

look...I know just a few things about gold..looking at many gold refiners I have seen that this problem is very common...you have formed a gold colloidal solution (here in Mexico the term is "enchocolatarse" that means "make it like chocolate", caused by an excess of tin)...here gold refiners add concentrated sulphuric acid and heat breaking the colloidal solution until they get the brown mud settled.

I hope it helps.

Manuel

Manuel,
Thank you for your response.
Since, I've filtered and was left with a brown syrup on the filter and brown water in the pot.
As you've mentioned, most likely that this is contaminated gold.
I'm thinkig about doing some more refiltering and then dry and melt and reprocess on a gold cell.
I do not have concentrated sulfuric.
What do you think?
Thank you,
Helio

 

[butcher]

do you have acess to muratic acid (used to clean concrete) and bleach, if so you can wash it, redisolve in the acid, and pricipitate it back more pure.

 

[Juan Manuel Arcos Frank]

Helio:

Butcher is right,but you have many tons of sulphuric acid in your own town,just go to a car supply store and buy "battery acid"...there is an acid for new batteries ( 98%,concentrated) and another one for batteries in use (10% diluted).When you add the acid you have to use gloves,eye protection glases and NEVER add water to the acid because it could spatter and cause you severe burns.Add it slowly to your solution.If you want to know how to handle corrosive acids take a look at Steve´s wonderful website.(By the way,if you can make a donation just do it...it will help Steve for posting more processes)

Regards

Manuel

 

[butcher]

should only follow one process,and Juan Manuel Arcos Frank is much more simple, and he always gives good advice. sulfuric is also usually sold as drain cleaners.although usually not as pure as battery acid.

 

[skykinghunter]

Helio:

Butcher is right,but you have many tons of sulphuric acid in your own town,just go to a car supply store and buy "battery acid"...there is an acid for new batteries ( 98%,concentrated) and another one for batteries in use (10% diluted).When you add the acid you have to use gloves,eye protection glases and NEVER add water to the acid because it could spatter and cause you severe burns.Add it slowly to your solution.If you want to know how to handle corrosive acids take a look at Steve´s wonderful website.(By the way,if you can make a donation just do it...it will help Steve for posting more processes)

Regards

Manuel

Manuel,
I've purchased batt acid from NAPA, but it is not concentrated and did not notcice the concentrated, as you suggested 98%.
Next time I'll ask if they have it. If not, could it be made by boiling the batt acid for a few minutes?
I am familiar with Steves site, and in fact I've made a donation and got a CELL from him, and got real good and prompt service.
Everyone that I've encountered in this forum has been realy great. I hope that some day, I can also be able to help.
Thank you and happy refining.

Thank you [/list]

 

[butcher]

battery acid sulfuric acid and water approx 32%.
battery acid or dilute sulfuric acid can be boiled to concentrate.
if almost all was water the water and acid would boil off water at about the boiling point of water close to 100 deg C (212 deg F) (for pure water),

i
as the acid is more concentrated the boiling point at which sulfuric acid will fume out of water also increases.
at O% sulfuric (water) boils at @ 212 deg F
at 10% sulfuric acid boiling point 215 deg F
at 32% the acid boils off at 227 deg F
at 75% BP acid 367deg F
@ 98% BP sulfuric 621 deg F

so if boiling temperature is kept below the boiling point of the sulfuric acid, mainly just water will boil off concentrating the acid
at about 98% you will see white fumes of the SO2/SO3 gas.
hot sulfuric concentrated can be dangerous,
I do this in a coffee pyrex pot on a electric hot plate outdoors.
always be careful with glass never changing the temperature rapidly (thermal shock) which can cause glass to break

editted boiling point of water mistake caught by sharp eye of platdigger (thanks)

 

[skykinghunter]

battery acid sulfuric acid and water approx 32%.
battery acid or dilute sulfuric acid can be boiled to concentrate.
if almost all was water the water and acid would boil off water at about the boiling point of water close to 100 deg C (212 deg F) (for pure water),

i
as the acid is more concentrated the boiling point at which sulfuric acid will fume out of water also increases.
at O% sulfuric (water) boils at @ 212 deg F
at 10% sulfuric acid boiling point 215 deg F
at 32% the acid boils off at 227 deg F
at 75% BP acid 367deg F
@ 98% BP sulfuric 621 deg F
Manuel,
Can I do this on hot plate (400 deg. F max.)?
Of course this would be conducted outdoors, away from humans and creatures.
Hindsight, sort of tells me that I would not be able to get the solution to go to 621 deg F.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge,
Helio


so if boiling temperature is kept below the boiling point of the sulfuric acid, mainly just water will boil off concentrating the acid
at about 98% you will see white fumes of the SO2/SO3 gas.
hot sulfuric concentrated can be dangerous,
I do this in a coffee pyrex pot on a electric hot plate outdoors.
always be careful with glass never changing the temperature rapidly (thermal shock) which can cause glass to break

editted boiling point of water mistake caught by sharp eye of platdigger (thanks)