The Nitric Acid substitute on Ebay turned out to be Sodium Nitrate crystals.. You just add water. They claim it is a substitute to use in precipitating gold and silver. But since Im not doing that I just shelved it. Anyone ever have experience using sodium nitrate to dissolve anything? Somewhere on another thread someone said it will work as an acid but you will have a lot of salt residue to filter out.
Concentrated nitric acid substitute
- Thread starter Karion89
- Start date
Help Support Gold Refining Forum:
Sounds like something I said when using it to process gold filled. I commented on your other post, so might want to check there as well.
The sodium nitrate crystal when added to the solution containing gold etc, when heated with care will convert to HNO3 and can dissolve copper. The gold is inert and remains unchanged.
By adding the required amount of HCl acid, aqua regia should form with excess HNO3 thus dissolving the gold. This is aka poor man's HNO3. X
I think you will need to reread that, as far as I know it can not be used to precipitate Gold,
but when, as already said, added to HCl can dissolve Gold as "poor mans AR".
If you check the prices on the "substitute" versus the plain Nitrate bought as fertilizer, there may be a substantial price hike on the substitute.
So I advice against the substitute, if you value your money
Martijn
Well-known member
While cruising around on my high horse, in a state of assumption, not knowing anything for sure, I noticed from far above you in fact have bought a kind of "poor man's nitric" as i obviously wrongly assumed and which is well described here on the forum. Try the search function.
Apologies for posting my bias uniformed reply.
Thanks for answering my questions sir.
Fying on.
Moderators edit:
This kind of editing of posts, where the context is totally changed is not allowed in this forum.
When ever you edit something please note in a subtext that it has been edited and then indicate why.
End Moderators edit.
Original text:
Yes, of course but the condescension persists by those who love to cite verses from antiquated books but have never tried the processes themselves which is the epitome of dumbassary.
End original text.
Edited Text after edit:
redacted for intel reasons
This kind of editing of posts, where the context is totally changed is not allowed in this forum.
When ever you edit something please note in a subtext that it has been edited and then indicate why.
End Moderators edit.
Original text:
Yes, of course but the condescension persists by those who love to cite verses from antiquated books but have never tried the processes themselves which is the epitome of dumbassary.
End original text.
Edited Text after edit:
redacted for intel reasons
Last edited by a moderator:
Careful now, we may not be very tolerant to this kind of language.
Citing or discussing politics and religion are against forum rules.
Anyway, whenever you ask for help, we actually need enough and correct information, which you failed to give in the first place, so please wind down a few notches.
It will be much easier to see where your questions, answers and comments are directed if you use the reply button,
in stead of just commenting unattached.
And most replies here now are directed your way since the OP started this thread in February and has not been seen since March.
Editing your posts do not change the quotes in the replies.
So behave now.
This isn´t the best thing to do. Nitrate alone with copper does not do much. In acidic enviroment, depending on hat you add. HCL and you essentially have AR, sulfuric and you have mix of nitric and sulfuric acid, which does not dissolve gold.
Good catch Orvi, it escaped me
The best thing here is to create the poormans Nitric by itself and then after cooling and filtering it can be used as any other Nitric.
Or you can add an excess of HCl and add sparingly the Nitrate salt until all is dissolved.
You always aim to use as little Nitric or Nitrate as possible.
Edited for clarity.
Most first time users of nitrate salts (fertilizers) tend to over use it by a lot. Then they want to work with material that is heavy in copper which complicates it even more. Then the nitric is even more difficulty to kill off when using it as AR. Think of the nitrate as alcohol, best used in moderation.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2019
- Messages
- 10
Other than excess nitrates when salts are overused, are there problems when using Poor man’s nitric acid to remove base metals followed by dissolution of gold with Poor man’s AR? And, is there a preferred nitrate salt to use with either?
I am probably not the one to ask. I mean I am no chemist and barely understand much of the chemistry involved.
But, I use sodium nitrate the most just because it is easiest for me to get. That means it is also what I have the most experience with. In my experience much of the problems with using fertilizer grade nitrates can be overcome with really good filtering skills and equipment. Again, orvi can better explain how excess copper can also cause many problems as well. In my mind, it translates to regenerating nitric acid. Making it very hard to remove the nitric/ NOx from AR. Sometimes it is not an issue but others it seems to never stop.
I will use potassium nitrate at times just so I don’t have to make a trip to the store. It seems to actually work better most of the time for me. Even calcium nitrate works well. Each one forms different salts and can change how I handle filtering. A Büchner funnel, good quality and selection of filter papers and a vacuum pump makes a world of difference.
Most of all, experience and time will teach how to see things coming. Start small and gain some experience.
But, I use sodium nitrate the most just because it is easiest for me to get. That means it is also what I have the most experience with. In my experience much of the problems with using fertilizer grade nitrates can be overcome with really good filtering skills and equipment. Again, orvi can better explain how excess copper can also cause many problems as well. In my mind, it translates to regenerating nitric acid. Making it very hard to remove the nitric/ NOx from AR. Sometimes it is not an issue but others it seems to never stop.
I will use potassium nitrate at times just so I don’t have to make a trip to the store. It seems to actually work better most of the time for me. Even calcium nitrate works well. Each one forms different salts and can change how I handle filtering. A Büchner funnel, good quality and selection of filter papers and a vacuum pump makes a world of difference.
Most of all, experience and time will teach how to see things coming. Start small and gain some experience.
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2019
- Messages
- 10
Thanks for your response and insights. I’ve been doing this for a few years, and have learned much from this forum and it’s members. Combined with my limited experience, I’ve also selected sodium nitrate to make in situ nitric acid, adding it incrementally to reduce excess production for both nitric acid and AR. Haven’t had many issues with gravity filtering yet…although it can take some time. Might be in part due to use of tech/industrial grade sodium nitrate (99%+) that I use.
Thanks again!
Gary
Welcome to us.
Since you have done this a few years I will not site the whole ballet.
But here are some important links.
Read the safety section of the forum: Safety
And then read about "Dealing with waste" in the forum: Dealing with Waste
Suggested reading: The Library
Forum rules : https://goldrefiningforum.com/threads/gold-refining-forum-rules.31182/post-327766
If you have managed without Hokes book or have read it, a good thing can never be repeated too much.
Read C.M. Hokes book on refining jewelers scrap, it gives an easy introduction to the most important chemistry regarding refining.
It is free here on the forum: Screen Readable Copy of Hoke's Book
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2019
- Messages
- 10
Yggdrasil
I’ve read the recommended materials several times since coming to the forum. I am especially fond of Hoke. The writing styles of the 30’s and 40’s are hard to beat
Thanks!
Gary
buy from a seller you can trust and yes alway get msds i personally deal with duda diesel for nitric acid and other supplies sodium nitrate and such and they will anwser questions and supplie MSDS if you ask. and have good prices i am just one of there customers for a few years now they have a web site check there prices
