Are those your readings or the seller sent you the picture?
35gr of material should have yielded 0.22 gr Au according to the XRF picture.
Pete
Cupel sizes
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35gr of material should have yielded 0.22 gr Au according to the XRF picture.
Pete
That's their XRF pic.
They're now saying they have 0.155555 microns per gram of precious metals. I'm saying that makes no sense whatsoever to me. Microns are a measurement of length and gram is mass. So depth of gold per gram is nonsense. If you took a gram of gold and rolled it to 0.155555 microns thick it would be, as they say, 0.155555 microns per gram but 100% gold. Massively different to 0.155555 micron layer over a sphere.
I used 10g of their product and got zero visible bead. I wasn't expecting much, but I was expecting something.
Then you have been probably scammed.
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Anybody who measures weights by micron thickness per gram, doesn't know the business. It should have been a tip off to you, to stay away from these types. Of course you on the other hand, you may have realized this, and tried to take advantage of them. So you can't put the blame on either one of you. Chalk it up to the learning curve. Only do business with reputable, knowledgable types, and payment on larger quantities goes into an escrow account, until both parties agree on acceptable terms.
I didn't see the micron per gram measurement. It was buried in one of the specs on eBay, not in the title or description. I was just hoping for some measurable gold so that when I moved over to chemical refinement, I could compare yeilds.
But you're right. Buyer beware. Read the fine print. At least I now know I didn't lose any gold in the first (cracked) cupels
Why are all the other elements in the XRF picture whited out? The price is a huge red flag - the white out is a second.
The XRF machines confuses elements sometimes. If I recall correctly, lead can be confused for gold - especially with an XRF calibrated for precious metal alloys where no lead is expected.
The XRF machines confuses elements sometimes. If I recall correctly, lead can be confused for gold - especially with an XRF calibrated for precious metal alloys where no lead is expected.
Golddigger76
Well-known member
That is exactly what I was wondering, what is being hidden because a potential buyer should know the exact makeup to determine if it is worth refining or not.
I would pass on this without a 2nd thought !!!
Interesting you even got it to work. When I tried it lid off, fan on, throwing tons of fuel at it I saw all the stages of cupelling and the flashing of the nuclear reaction which was way cool, but never any cupelling occurred. Even saw a gold button in the molten lead I decided that you must need a cupelling oven or an oxygen torch which Ive seen results from others in no time at all. Right now Im stuck with 15 or so lead ingots. If anyone cupels and wants to do a deal lemme know.
I put the cupel on top of an upside down crucible so it was at the top of the furnace. Maybe that's the difference
What kind of furnace did you use?
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To cupel properly, you need 2 components for the reaction to happen properly. The first is temperature, 1850 F., the second is a bit of atmospheric Oxygen. The conversion of Pb (Lead), to Pb oxide. Metallic Pb will not absorb into the cupel, only PbO will absorb into the cupel, bringing other base metal oxides as well. The resulting bead will consist of only precious metals, if the proper procedure is done. It is easy to do with the proper furnace, difficult without it.
Vevor 6kg
I did not ask for brands. Gas or electric, top or front loaded was what I wondered about.
The important thing while cupelling is, stable and precise temperature and sufficient access to Oxygen.
Hello Kenzo and all. Very cool to see you doing cupelling with bismuth and vevor furnace (propane or butane charged, usually), Kenzo. I have tried same.. but as others have also said - the cupellation typically works much better in small front loading electric muffle furnace. See here: https://www.tabletopfurnace.com/product/rapidfire-pro-l/ (What I have found is that even if you have an oxidizing flame it tends to take quite a bit longer for cupellation to complete in the gas furnace). Have you checked out videos on youtube from MBMMLC ? Check out Jason's direct smelting and cupellation videos - he does a fantastic job testing, explaining and demonstrating what works for his concentrates. I have just joined this forum and will be engaging more with you all on this discussion about using bismuth for cupelling.
Welcome to us!
Again welcome to the forum. I haven't used bismuth since I tested it for cupellation in the 1990's. Back then it cost 3 times as much to use bismuth vs lead.
I think using bismuth today to create doré from karat scrap may be cost effective for those paying high prices for nitric acid but still it will involve a Silver inquartation because of higher Silver concentrations and a second aqua regia refine. It would be interesting to look at some recent cost comparisons.
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I think the cost of PROPERLY disposing of used Pb cupels, and the associated cost of transporting to a hazardous materials disposal site, may make Bismuth an attractive alternative to Lead. It would depend on your distance to such a site, to make a comparison, and I am sure everybody's situation will be different. I don't know if used Bismuth impregnated cupels would be considered Hazardous waste. Some other thoughts by members?
Properly is phrasing it well! Bismuth is not one of the TCLP metals that are regulated.
A TCLP test is to determine which elements in a waste will likely leach out in a landfill from exposure to acid rain. They tumble the sample in a liquid to simulate long time rain exposure and if you exceed the limits above, it is a hazardous waste. But since the list does not have Bismuth it likely is not considered hazardous. But this depends on where you live and the regulations in effect there.
But I also welcome other opinions.
- Arsenic – 5.0 mg/L.
- Barium – 100.0 mg/L.
- Cadmium – 1.0 mg/L.
- Chromium – 8.0 mg/L.
- Lead – 5.0 mg/L.
- Mercury – 0.2 mg/L.
- Selenium – 1.0 mg/L.
- Silver – 5.0 mg/L.
A TCLP test is to determine which elements in a waste will likely leach out in a landfill from exposure to acid rain. They tumble the sample in a liquid to simulate long time rain exposure and if you exceed the limits above, it is a hazardous waste. But since the list does not have Bismuth it likely is not considered hazardous. But this depends on where you live and the regulations in effect there.
But I also welcome other opinions.
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Is PbO the same as Pb, for the sake of the TCLP test?
Yes, more soluble than metallic lead, but still having the 5 mg upper limit. PbO has a slight solubility in water, higher solubility in hot water, so the oxide is definitely destined to fail TCLP.
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