Determining the contaminant.

[anachronism]

Sure, but that willow pattern on the button above is a sign of contaminants too, no pun intended of course!

Edit- from what I've been told that's possibly PGMs

 

[autumnwillow]

Sure, but that willow pattern on the button above is a sign of contaminants too, no pun intended of course!

Edit- from what I've been told that's possibly PGMs

True, that could have been Pt/Ir. That was my very first refine. I only have 2 pictures of gold that I have refined before. How about the 2nd picture of my first post? Judging it by the way it looks does it seem to have any contaminants?

I can't really assay my gold properly though, can't find a proper assay lab in my country that can perform a fire assay/ICP/etc. I also don't have the equipment to perform a fire assay.

 

[autumnwillow]

I scanned my phone and this is another picture of a bar I used to make:

 

[Topher_osAUrus]

A second dissolve will help give clues to what the contaminant is. From the color of the solution after precipitation.

The excess smb could have caused contaminants to drop with the gold, or they could have got dragged down mechanically.

When gold is in powder form, a redissolve and precipitation can be done within a day.

I cannot say for sure that it is your problem, but, a single refine is sometimes considered to just be "recovery"

The first bars you produced could have ended up more pure because it may not have had the same contaminant, may not have been overdosed with smb, or you may have just got lucky. Not sure :lol:

 

[anachronism]

The second pic of the first post looks fine to me to be honest. You say you poured that into a mold?

I think you're worrying over things you don't need to worry about because none of it looks badly contaminated.

By the way over dosing with SMB doesn't really cause that many issues. You're cleaning your gold with HCl and water washes anyway.

 

[Justincase]

Is the question that important?
I get paid the same for 999 Au as 9999.
And the difference is only really quantifiable by Masgas Spectrometer.
E.G. Identifying accurately such small trace impurity's.
Easy to find out ,cost you about £116.

 

[anachronism]

Or just go to a mate who has an XRF- that's what jewellers would use to buy your gold so that's all the test you need to pass.

As pointed out though does it really matter- because you'll only get paid on the gold content anyway.

 

[Justincase]

Or just go to a mate who has an XRF- that's what jewellers would use to buy your gold so that's all the test you need to pass.

As pointed out though does it really matter- because you'll only get paid on the gold content anyway.

XRF's can give you a ruff idea of content,but get very easaly confused.Not some thing I put my money on with out backing up with a solid recovery.
give me a good lab any day.

 

[anachronism]

If the guy paying you is basing his price on an XRF then if you have had it XRFed already you know where you are pitching from. XRF's aren't bad. Provided you know how to use one and understand the limitations.

The guy who buys my gold is worth over £40M from using one to make his buying decisions and that's a pretty good benchmark.

 

[Justincase]

If the guy paying you is basing his price on an XRF then if you have had it XRFed already you know where you are pitching from. XRF's aren't bad. Provided you know how to use one and understand the limitations.

The guy who buys my gold is worth over £40M from using one to make his buying decisions and that's a pretty good benchmark.

If I am being paid it is for fine gold,no assay or XRF required.
XRF good for screening hole alloys,no good for widdeling out the little bit's of value that may be hidden.
I only use to check for rhenium in spent super-alloys my self.
No doubt your friend who made him self 40M had a very good margin,probably more than enough to make up for a large statistical error.
If you want to cut some throats a slightly miss calibrated XRF if a gold mine literally.People just do not question what they see on a tiny screen.
Test by every method available to you,old school fire assays are bomb proof and cost a fraction the cost of XRF once you look at the kit.

 

[anachronism]

If the guy paying you is basing his price on an XRF then if you have had it XRFed already you know where you are pitching from. XRF's aren't bad. Provided you know how to use one and understand the limitations.

The guy who buys my gold is worth over £40M from using one to make his buying decisions and that's a pretty good benchmark.

If I am being paid it is for fine gold,no assay or XRF required.
XRF good for screening hole alloys,no good for widdeling out the little bit's of value that may be hidden.
I only use to check for rhenium in spent super-alloys my self.
No doubt your friend who made him self 40M had a very good margin,probably more than enough to make up for a large statistical error.
If you want to cut some throats a slightly miss calibrated XRF if a gold mine literally.People just do not question what they see on a tiny screen.
Test by every method available to you,old school fire assays are bomb proof and cost a fraction the cost of XRF once you look at the kit.

Firstly, he actually works on approximately 1.5%-2%. He doesn't need to cut anyones' throats because he's probably one of the most trusted gold dealers in the whole of the UK. People do get successful without cutting peoples' throats.

 

[Justincase]

If the guy paying you is basing his price on an XRF then if you have had it XRFed already you know where you are pitching from. XRF's aren't bad. Provided you know how to use one and understand the limitations.

The guy who buys my gold is worth over £40M from using one to make his buying decisions and that's a pretty good benchmark.

If I am being paid it is for fine gold,no assay or XRF required.
XRF good for screening hole alloys,no good for widdeling out the little bit's of value that may be hidden.
I only use to check for rhenium in spent super-alloys my self.
No doubt your friend who made him self 40M had a very good margin,probably more than enough to make up for a large statistical error.
If you want to cut some throats a slightly miss calibrated XRF if a gold mine literally.People just do not question what they see on a tiny screen.
Test by every method available to you,old school fire assays are bomb proof and cost a fraction the cost of XRF once you look at the kit.

Firstly, he actually works on approximately 1.5%-2%. He doesn't need to cut anyones' throats because he's probably one of the most trusted gold dealers in the whole of the UK. People do get successful without cutting peoples' throats.

I said that he would have a good margin not that he cut throats.
Then I said if you wanted to cut throats it was a very good way to do so.
Why so defensive?we are discussing the merets of differing analytical method's.
All the best buyers I know of use fire assays ,you can see it along with the melt charge.
When I see 1-2% margin I expect to see substantial processing charges as well.
Unless you are known to them quite well and they trust your product.
If you are dealing with some one unknown then the cost of a drill sample and fire assay tend to be charged to the client.
Do I know you under an other board name?

 

[autumnwillow]

I do not sell gold at the moment as we are in need of it. We are actually buying.
I own a jewelry shop and we only want to use the finest gold possible and If ever I decide to sell gold I can ask for a premium since most of the gold traders here supply about .990 - .995 gold purity at 24k market price.

 

[kurtak]

Do I know you under an other board name?

Justin

You know full well who Jon is :!:

At least you should considering he allowed you to use his license to make a deal a couple years ago - a deal you could not make with out a license

We wont go into how that deal ended

All I am going to say is that if you are trying to bait Jon to respond in a negative way in the hope to see him banned - NOT a good Idea --- we just recently had another member try that - it did not end well for that member

Just as a reminder

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=23062&p=241824&hilit=Justin#p241602

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=23208&p=243616&hilit=Justin#p243600

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=22831&p=239812&hilit=Justin#p239705

My point --- play nice :!:

Kurt

 

[allenp]

You may have a bit of silver left which can cause the effect. After you add the sulfamic acid you should triple the volume with very cold water to cause silver chloride to precipitate.

 

[Justincase]

Do I know you under an other board name?

Justin

You know full well who Jon is :!:

At least you should considering he allowed you to use his license to make a deal a couple years ago - a deal you could not make with out a license

We wont go into how that deal ended

All I am going to say is that if you are trying to bait Jon to respond in a negative way in the hope to see him banned - NOT a good Idea --- we just recently had another member try that - it did not end well for that member

Just as a reminder

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=23062&p=241824&hilit=Justin#p241602

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=23208&p=243616&hilit=Justin#p243600

:arrow: http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=22831&p=239812&hilit=Justin#p239705

My point --- play nice :!:

Kurt

Thank you for confirming that this is John I will ignore him form now on..
And you are some what misinformed.
I was going to rout quite a lot of e-wast through the gentleman concerned.As you know I can not stand the stuff my self let alone waste my time trying to process 99.9% of it so it was important to find some one that would not try and under pay me for small increments.But would let a lot build to the point of maximum return.E.G. Tunn lot's.not fart around with every little bit.
But I found his attitude abhorrent and I detected several methods of manipulation being use by him.
So the work went to a much larger concern who quite happily let me operate under there license, under much better terms,and no petty problems.
If John engages me despite the fact he knows who I am may be I am not the one trying to cause friction.
Security and conflict resolution is my main trade.
May be people should start running back ground checks on thous they intend to do business with as I do.

 

[kurtak]

Thank you for confirming that this is John

Not sure who you are trying to fool here because it has been made "well known" who Jon is since his return under his new user name :!: :!: :!:

as I said - "You know full well who Jon is" :!:

And you are some what misinformed.

I am sure you have your own side to the story - but based on the 3 links I provided I have cause to believe other wise

Security and conflict resolution is my main trade.

What's your point ?

If you wish to discuss this further - I suggest we take it to discussion in PMs --- there is no need to further distract from this thread &/or cause disruption on the forum

My ONLY point in my first post was that you do know who Jon is (as I say - that has been made WELL KNOWN) & therefore your last response to Jon has every "appearance" of "baiting" --- which ultimately leads to disruption --- if I am wrong in my conclusion you certainly have my apology !

My intent was simply to stop what "looked" liked something that could develop into a disruptive argument

Again - if you wish to discuss this further - I suggest we take it to a discussion by PM

Kurt

 

[anachronism]

I do not sell gold at the moment as we are in need of it. We are actually buying.
I own a jewelry shop and we only want to use the finest gold possible and If ever I decide to sell gold I can ask for a premium since most of the gold traders here supply about .990 - .995 gold purity at 24k market price.

Hi Willow I see where you say that you can ask a premium but if that's the case you're going to need a way to know that your gold is above this. It's entirely possible that it's over 99.9 right now, but then again it might not be. What it looks like doesn't really cut the mustard at the high end of purities.

Jon

 

[Lou]

Follow the wash procedure and be sure to remove lead. Do not over use reducing agent and you will make high purity gold.

A final sonication with 70% hot sulfuric acid can be used to clean up the gold markedly in purity.


You can remove the ugly appearance with ammonium chloride sprinkle when the gold is hot. It is a very fumey process.


Feathering in your gold is due to Pt.

Oxidation color can be due to most likely copper or iron. My suggestion is to wash your gold powder much better as most impurities are by physically absorbed processes rather than included/co-reduced with the gold.

 

[autumnwillow]

Solved.

The 2nd refine was due to clay crucible contaminants as what Goran have mentioned.
We only changed crucible and followed the same process using the same chemicals.
Also my previous posts regarding steel mold contamination is ruled out as we also poured this in the same steel mold.
HCl is the contaminant in our process, supply is from a swimming pool chemical store. Must be not that pure, everytime we use this we get a very strange AR color (cloudy and greenish).
We used the HCl from a drug store supply instead.

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