DIY Stannous Chloride issues

[yetiface09]

I'm either doing something wrong or my solution doesn't have any gold in it. I started my first attempt at gold processing a couple of weeks ago. My first post is here with a few details on my situation. http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=18767

I can see tons of tiny gold specks in the solution but when I test it with my "Stannous Chloride" it just turns the (currently dark brown) solution into a very light green color on the swab. I understand that the solution being dark brown indicates that it is saturated with copper. I guess I was incorrect in assuming that the solution would have gold in it since nearly all of my original material is now dissolved. I'm still waiting for the rest to dissolve before moving on to the clorox process. Oh before I get too far, here is my process for making the SnCl solution.

I took about a gram of 99.7% tin solder in about 50ml of HCl. Heat on a hotplate until boiling. Boil for two minutes then turn off the heat and let cool. The first batch dissolved the solder completely (ok i confess I didn't know the composition of the first solder I used) I went and bought the solder that was 99.7% tin and retried. I tried using the straight solution and also diluted to 600ml with water. Still the same results. Can someone please help me and tell me one of two things. 1) Hey dude you're totally wrong here, your gold is gone and you're a moron. or 2) You made the SnCl correctly but your solution has no gold.

Thanks!!

 

[g_axelsson]

How did you dissolve the gold?

You are talking about a dark brown liquid with golden specks in it, it sounds like you just dissolved the base metals via AP and you now see the gold flakes from the plating.

The trick is to dissolve the base metals and then decant / filter off the solution from the now liberated gold. Remove the trash, so to speak, before dissolving the gold. It can be a bit tricky if the plating is really thin and breaks up.

When you have the clean gold foils then you go on and dissolve it with your method of choise.... but if this is your mistake then you haven't understood the basics of refining and is probably going to do more mistakes. Put a lid on your solution, it won't dissapear. Go back and read Hoke again, then run through all the links in Lazersteve's introduction to the forum.

You should also make a gold reference solution so you can test if your stannous is working.

Göran

 

[yetiface09]

Thanks for the reply. I dissolved the gold using the AP method. I have watched the videos on Steve's site at least three times each (Especially the ones about the AP method) as well as read hoke twice. I'm not saying that to be smart, I just want everyone to know I'm not just blindly seeking answers. I'm just trying to get clarification on the practice of the theory (if that makes sense.) However, I must point out that LazerSteve's gold was in the form of fingers and mine is from pins. I have since learned that AP is not the best method for pins. I still have a long wait until the rest of the base metal is dissolved.

Since this is my first ever attempt at refining, I will probably save the solution after filtering and create my gold reference solution. Can you tell me if I'm way off base with my Stannous Chloride recipe/formula? Also, am I correct in thinking that my solution might not test positive for gold since it has gold particulate instead of dissolved gold in it? I'm just trying to get someone to tell me if I'm on the right track here.

 

[g_axelsson]

What strength of HCl and peroxide are you using in the AP?

Normally AP doesn't dissolve gold, only base metals.

Your description of the stannous sounds okay to me, but I strongly recommend a gold reference to verify that the stannous is working. Test it daily as stannous goes bad over time.

Stannous is only able to detect gold in solution, not in it's metallic state (not even in suspension). If you can see gold it isn't in solution, not all of it at least.

Göran

 

[yetiface09]

The H202 is your typical drug store 3%. The HCl is from the hardware store, 31%. You have confirmed my thinking process on the stannous chloride. Thanks!

 

[g_axelsson]

This confirms my hunch. You don't have any gold in solution, it is still in metallic state and your next step is to separate the dissolved base metals from the metallic gold.

I would decant the dark brown liquid from the metallic gold foils but using a filter to catch any gold that follows the liquid. Wash the foils several times until the brown solution is gone. The brown solution is waste and should be dealt with responsible, read about dealing with waste on the forum. Butcher has written a lot about it.

When you have your gold foils clean you can go on to dissolve, filter, precipitate, wash and melt. You can find directions on the forum and on Lazersteves website.

You might have read Hoke but you haven't grasped the principle of refining yet, so go on, read some more in Hoke and on the forum until you get it.

Good luck!

Göran

 

[yetiface09]

Thanks Göran. I appreciate your help. I'm actually reading Hoke now. I have begun decanting and filtering the solution and I'm about to start the first wash cycle. I'll post my results when I can finally get it all processed. This first batch may not be the best, but it's a great learning experience all the same. Thanks again man.

 

[Harold_V]

I still have a long wait until the rest of the base metal is dissolved.

For that reason, there's no reason for your test to be positive. So long as you have base metal present, gold will cement from solution. Get rid of the base metal and you'll achieve your goal. Read Hoke again. Twice isn't enough. Read until you understand what she teaches.

As you alluded, gold does not display with stannous chloride unless it is in solution. Any that gets dissolved by the process you are using will cement as metallic gold. The test doesn't respond to that state of gold.

Harold

 

[g_axelsson]

I still have a long wait until the rest of the base metal is dissolved.

For that reason, there's no reason for your test to be positive.

Ooops, I missed that point.... he also said

I'm still waiting for the rest to dissolve before moving on to the clorox process.

in the first post. Now I'm feeling stupid, I should have caught that in the beginning.

yetiface09, the clorox process is the step that puts gold in solution, dissolving it. After that step your solution should test positive for gold.

Thanks Harold!

Göran

 

[Harold_V]

Chuckle!

There's so much going on with these processes (simple as they may appear to be) that it's easy to overlook the obvious.

Harold

 

[patnor1011]

Your filtered brown solution is not only waste. I mean if you plan to do more fingers, simply put fish tank bubler in and leave it run few hours. Your solution will become light green again and can be used over and over with slight additions of peroxide. Or even without any peroxide as there is some still there present and become active again when solution is rejuvenated with bubbling.

 

[g_axelsson]

He is running pins and all type of pins so it's not a clean nice copper chloride, there's a lot of zinc, tin and probably some iron and nickel in it as well. I would start on a new batch of copper chloride if running fingers.
And when I read the other thread again I see that he started with nitric before switching to HCl without incinerating so there are probably some fine cemented gold powder floating around in the mix.

To not lose some gold he needs a large amount of patience, letting gold settle well before decanting, siphoning or even wicking (is it correct spelled?) off the dissolved base metals.

Göran

 

[yetiface09]

Thank you all for your replies. I decided to decant and filter the solution into a storage container and another round of HCl (200ml) and H2O2 (100ml). There was a pretty good amount of grey sludge built up at the bottom. I captured that in a 4 stack of coffee filters and I am drying that out in a controlled area for later processing if needed. I didn't want to throw it away since I'm not real sure what is in it. CuCl or AgCl? I'm pretty sure it's CuCl due to the fact that I'm dealing with mixed pins. Now my coffee pot has a small amount of white-ish sludge and a couple of pinches of pin fragments. This is killing me since I'm not known for my patience. The acid is doing it's job but it is just so stinkin' slow. I'll get over it though. This is all such a great learning experience. I am a firm believer in "on the job training" and this is the best way to learn. I think if I'm going to continue to process pins, I'll check out a sulphuric cell for sure.

 

[patnor1011]

He is running pins and all type of pins so it's not a clean nice copper chloride, there's a lot of zinc, tin and probably some iron and nickel in it as well. I would start on a new batch of copper chloride if running fingers.
And when I read the other thread again I see that he started with nitric before switching to HCl without incinerating so there are probably some fine cemented gold powder floating around in the mix.

To not lose some gold he needs a large amount of patience, letting gold settle well before decanting, siphoning or even wicking (is it correct spelled?) off the dissolved base metals.

Göran

You are right. I guess I was just too fast.